Samsung F8500 plasma anticipation thread

[strapped for cash]

User reports and pics are starting to come in:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/90

It's worth reading the last two pages about the loss of brightness from high and low angles, which only seems a problem when viewing up close. I'm not reading anything that's putting me off yet.

Love some news of a UK release date.

 

[Paul.]

User reports and pics are starting to come in:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/90

It's worth reading the last two pages about the loss of brightness from high and low angles, which only seems a problem when viewing up close. I'm not reading anything that's putting me off yet.

Love some news of a UK release date.

That was comon on the 2012 PDP 8 series as well, it has an anti reflective filter which has that side effect. I belive the VT series AR coating has the same symptoms?

 

[strapped for cash]

That was comon on the 2012 PDP 8 series as well, it has an anti reflective filter which has that side effect. I belive the VT series AR coating has the same symptoms?

Right, same deal with 2012 Panasonic plasmas (from ST through to VT). For me it's a non-issue, since I don't watch TV standing up from three feet away.

Now I need to know if John Lewis will stock the F8500, when, and at what price? I think I'll call tomorrow, as my third GT50 is no better than the previous two.

 

[Anonymous]

I think I am beginning to share your enthusiasm for this Samsung, Strapped.

While I like my VT50, I don't love it, I don't seem to feel the same way about it as I did my Pioneer 436XDE. I guess it's probably a match for the Pioneer, but not any better, which I kind of think it should be, not least because it has a native 1080p panel rather than a 720p. Goes to show just how good those old Pioneers were I guess.

If this Samsung is a good as its being trailed, I think I will be inclined to cut my losses and go for one. Looks like the 2012 models are being discounted now to clear stocks before the 2013 panels become available, but once they are discontinued I think the second hand market for the 2012 models should be reasonably strong. I hope.

 

[Anonymous]

Worth doing ?

http://www.samsung.com/uk/f8500plasmatv/

 

[strapped for cash]

Worth doing ?

http://www.samsung.com/uk/f8500plasmatv/

I did!

It's strange that there isn't a greater buzz about this TV here. There's a lot of excitement on AV Forums and AVS Forums. People here are comparing the F8500 with prior Samsung plasma TVs, which were already excellent, but the F8500 looks like something else again.

Of course I'm speculating about this TV's overall quality. However, according to the marketing, Samsung strove to make a reference plasma TV and the F8500 is the result of that effort. I'm trying to rein-in the hyperbole, but I've read enough to feel that my enthusiasm isn't misplaced.

Every reviewer granted an extended audition at CES places the F8500 in the same bracket as the ZT65. If reviewers are having this conversation, perhaps we should be talking in similar terms.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I guess people are reluctant to believe the hype until they seem some independant opinion. Plus we have all seen and heard it all before, and been left disappointed.

Early feedback from the States seems positive.

 

[strapped for cash]

Early feedback from the States seems positive.

I'm not cherry picking quotes. Few have seen the F8500 in action, but those that have seem highly impressed.The latest poster on AVS says: "Well color me utterly blown away. I just saw one. The television is simply unreal. (I think beyond either the pioneer elites or sharp elites.) Amazing, with all the talk of 4k this year and oled, this masterpiece of a television completely slipped under the radar."I'm trying to keep my expectations in check. Perhaps it'll be like internet dating -- the real thing doesn't live up to the photo and description. We'll see.I can't afford or accommodate a ZT65, so it's no odds to me how good Panasonic's "Kuro killer" is. The F8500, however, comes within budget, at the right size. The only alternative I'm considering is a 55" ST60, but only if screen uniformity problems are genuinely fixed.

 

[strapped for cash]

No idea what's going on. The chunk of text above was split into paragraphs, but for whatever reason, it's impossible to separate the text. :?

I think it's Panasonic's efforts to sabotage F8500 hype...

 

[Alantiggger]

No idea what's going on. The chunk of text above was split into paragraphs, but for whatever reason, it's impossible to separate the text. :?

I think it's Panasonic's efforts to sabotage F8500 hype...

:rofl:

 

[strapped for cash]

Screenshots of a calibrated F8500 next to a calibrated VT50:

http://pn64f8500.com/

According to the calibrator, Kevin Miller, and Robert Zohn who arranges the annual "HDTV Shootout," the F8500 matches a ninth-gen Kuro's black level, but goes brighter with both day and night calibrations, hanging onto its black level when using the day calibration settings (the equivalent of Panasonic's "THX Bright Room," which uses a fixed higher gamma setting and therefore has much lighter black levels).

Greyscale tracking and gamma were flat as a pancake, and colour accuracy spot on.

The ZT65 may prove a better TV overall, but since I can't afford it or fit it in my living room, the Samsung is starting to look like the best option. I'll see what happens with the ST60 and how that compares with the F8500.

Incidentally, check out the yellow splodge on the VT50 toward the centre-right of the panel. No uniformity problems reported with the F8500... Am I losing the capacity for rational thought and talking myself into buying one?

EDIT: looking at the pics again, the yellow splodge may be lighting reflected by the screen, or a camera flash, since the F8500 has a slightly yellow patch toward the top right. Choosing a television is such a confusing, stressful process. All that uncertainty...

 

[BenLaw]

Early feedback from the States seems positive.

I'm not cherry picking quotes. Few have seen the F8500 in action, but those that have seem highly impressed.The latest poster on AVS says: "Well color me utterly blown away. I just saw one. The television is simply unreal. (I think beyond either the pioneer elites or sharp elites.) Amazing, with all the talk of 4k this year and oled, this masterpiece of a television completely slipped under the radar."I'm trying to keep my expectations in check. Perhaps it'll be like internet dating -- the real thing doesn't live up to the photo and description. We'll see.I can't afford or accommodate a ZT65, so it's no odds to me how good Panasonic's "Kuro killer" is. The F8500, however, comes within budget, at the right size. The only alternative I'm considering is a 55" ST60, but only if screen uniformity problems are genuinely fixed.

I've been following the thread you linked to, thanks for that I don't put much stock in screen shots or indeed user experience, certainly at this stage after so little time and with so few users. However, the measurements are much more objective (although there still seems some scope for debate) and they sound very positive. Depending on the 9th gen measurement used either surpassing or matching. So like you, I have gathering enthusiasm about this set. As previously discussed, my situation is less critical than yours, but if I were to buy a TV in the next 12 months I would have the same choice as you. Unlike you, I would in any event want to wait til price drops later in the cycle, so that will allow sufficient time to see if there are problems like DSE in either set. We should know earlier than that how far behind in PQ the ST is, although I assume whatever happens it will be less adjustable, which will be a negative. If I can find the funds and there are no issues with the Samsung, I may be tempted to forego the extra 4 inches

 

[strapped for cash]

We should know earlier than that how far behind in PQ the ST is, although I assume whatever happens it will be less adjustable, which will be a negative. If I can find the funds and there are no issues with the Samsung, I may be tempted to forego the extra 4 inches

Unlike the ST50, The ST60 has a full colour management system and (according to TPS) no vertical bands. Apparently the ST60 is capable of reference colour accuracy as a result.

If I went the ST60 route, I'd also have the option of a 55" TV for less than £1,500. I haven't found any ST60 black level readings, but if they match the ST50, they're already genuinely excellent.

Apart from the obvious, one more thing that annoys me about the GT50 is that only the Professional presets allow full colour managment. Since these presets have a brightness cap and less impressive MLL, it's impossible to get the very best out of the TV, however you set it up. This wasn't true of the ST50, isn't true of the ST60, and isn't true of the F8500.

If the GT and VT this year have a brightness cap in Professional modes, and no full CMS using other picture presets, I'll definitely pass on each.

 

[BenLaw]

Ah right, thanks for the info. So it looks like a genuine shootout based on performance and reliability / consistency.

 

[strapped for cash]

Pretty much.

I'm still leaning toward the F8500, as I'm fed up with double imaging when viewing 50Hz content. Let's face it, 50Hz material comprises the majority of our viewing in the UK, and Panasonic still hasn't fixed this bug. I wonder if the ZT will be affected?

Whichever TV I buy needs to serve me well for the next four years. On that basis, I'm willing to push the budget for the right TV.

 

[strapped for cash]

Preliminary F8500 review here:

http://www.tweaktv.com/in-dspth-hdtv-reviews/preliminary-review-of-samsung-s-new-pn60f8500-plasma.html

The F8500's ANSI black level is marginally higher higher than the VT50 in THX Cinema mode, but beats the VT50 in its Professional modes. In other words, the F8500 will put out a better picture than the VT50, since the picture mode with the highest contrast includes a full CMS and can be calibrated to reference standard.

The F8500 also handles motion better than the VT50 and, in the reviewer's opinion, is the better TV overall, just.

I'm now wondering if the difference in picture quality between the 55" ST60 and 51" F8500 will be so marginal that I'd be best off with the cheaper and larger TV. Based on current information, it's a very close call. I need to see both in action.

 

[BenLaw]

This is great! I'm not going to bother looking into these at all myself as you're doing a fantastic job of it all and collating it all for me By the time I consider buying one I'm sure I will have all the reviews and measurements here, all the relevant user reports and your own considerably informed opinion. Keep up the good work, sir

 

[strapped for cash]

Trouble is, I'm certain there's a more productive use of my time than scanning every tech website for scraps of information. It's become an obsession. Even I'm bored of it all now. I just want a TV that works properly!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Definitely getting me interested too.

What does it mean by black level is 400 per cent better! How can that be, 400 per cent?

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Definitely getting me interested too.

What does it mean by black level is 400 per cent better! How can that be, 400 per cent?

Okay, I have just realised some people might not know what info I am referring to, here it is:

http://reviews.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/samsung-plasma-tv/samsung-pn60f8500.html

 

[BenLaw]

Trouble is, I'm certain there's a more productive use of my time than scanning every tech website for scraps of information. It's become an obsession. Even I'm bored of it all now. I just want a TV that works properly!

Sure, but it's a very productive use of my time if you're putting all that work in

 

[strapped for cash]

Definitely getting me interested too.

What does it mean by black level is 400 per cent better! How can that be, 400 per cent?

See, I knew you'd come around in the end!

With creative mathematics, advertisers can pretty much say anything they like. Just look at manufacturers' LED TV contrast claims. Samsung's F8500 black level claim was relative to the E8000's performance, and the F8500 certainly goes much blacker than that.

Bear in mind that the 0.001 and 0.004 ANSI figures in the review are foot lambert readings (rather than the candela per square metre readings used in UK reviews). Converted, and using the UK review figures for comparison, those figures equal in candela per square metre:

F8500: 0.0034 (full black screen) and 0.013 (ANSI checkerboard)

VT50: 0.009 (full black screen) and 0.012 (ANSI checkerboard)

If we use the ANSI reading, which of course we should as this reflects black level with content on screen, there's essentially no difference between these TVs. All of that assumes no variance between tests in different environments (albeit using the same meter).

I honestly don't think the black level conversation is worth having. The TVs seemingly match each other in this regard and it would be impossible to tell them apart. That said, the F8500 reading is out of the box and may be lower once the TV has bedded in.

In other regards, motion and shadow detail especially, the F8500 looks a better TV than the VT50. 3D performance is better, too, as the F8500 can produce much brighter 3D images. While many people don't care, it's good to know that the TV will get the best out of 3D Blu-rays.

It seems we're in a position now where Panasonic and Samsung plasmas are so close in terms of performance that any decision comes down to small preferences, or problems reported. If the F8500 has perfect screen uniformity and better motion, I think that's where my money will go.

I also think the F8500 looks sexier than the VT50/60. And there's no annoying, distracting light on the front when the power is turned on. A small detail, yes, but in a dark room that green light can be annoying.

Excuse the mini-essay! These are really just my thoughts spilling onto the page...

 

[strapped for cash]

Trouble is, I'm certain there's a more productive use of my time than scanning every tech website for scraps of information. It's become an obsession. Even I'm bored of it all now. I just want a TV that works properly!

Sure, but it's a very productive use of my time if you're putting all that work in

Then this is my last post here on this year's plasma TVs. If you can't even pretend to pitch in...

 

[Paul.]

Trouble is, I'm certain there's a more productive use of my time than scanning every tech website for scraps of information. It's become an obsession. Even I'm bored of it all now. I just want a TV that works properly!

Sure, but it's a very productive use of my time if you're putting all that work in

Then this is my last post here on this year's plasma TVs. If you can't even pretend to pitch in...

I would pitch in if I had 2k laying around

 

[Oldboy]

Trouble is, I'm certain there's a more productive use of my time than scanning every tech website for scraps of information. It's become an obsession. Even I'm bored of it all now. I just want a TV that works properly!

Sure, but it's a very productive use of my time if you're putting all that work in

Then this is my last post here on this year's plasma TVs. If you can't even pretend to pitch in...

Strapped I salute you sir :clap: that level of info and research is peaking my interest even further with the F8500 but much the same as BenLaw i'm in no hurry to replace my tv, i've been happy with the HX853 since I bought it but if the F8500 performs as well as it seems then i'm more than interested in upgrading come the end of the year when the price has fallen.

Yes the research may have got to boredom/obsession levels but if you get a tv you are genuinely happy with then it will all have been worth it eh, i'm sure plenty of people are keeping an eye out for the tv but it's a simple fact that until the reviews start to appear any excitement will be muted simply because of the fact that too many tvs have claimed to be Kuro killers in recent times only to be outed as also rans.

You have to bear in mind too that all the facts and figures (however impressive) are just that until a good concensous can be garnered from reviews, we really need to see how all the major reviewers rate the tv first to get a grip on just how good the tv is in the flesh and perhaps then we can celebrate a tv that can finally be called a Kuro killer. I'm certainly excited to see those reviews just to see if the good news continues from the few bits you have managed to dig up thus far...i've got my fingers crossed that later in the year Samsung tempt me to buy a new tv.

I also hope that you finally get a tv you are happy with and just hope that you get the chance to see the F8500 for yourself very soon, i've registered my interest too by the way so you can count me as interested!