SACD on a Bluray Player

[MeanandGreen]

Anyone any first hand experience with SACD and how it sounds compared to CD?

I've got a Pioneer Bluray player which is SACD compatable, but I have to say it's sound with regular CD isn't as good as my 15 year old dedicated Sony CDP. That might have something to do with having a 5M long interconnect from bluray to amp though as opposed to just 0.5M on from the CD to amp, due to where the video gear is in relation to the audio gear. (RCA analogue cables).

I was thinking of buying a couple of albums on SACD, they are quite pricy some of them. I noticed a lot of the choice are just old albums remastered. Just don't know if the Bluray player is going to be a good SACD player, it should be given the resoloution of the formats the machine is compatable with?

 

[Jota180]

It might be due to the difference in output from each player. Read somewhere that Oppo BluRay players (which can play SACD) output at up to 4v whereas CD players should be 2.1v.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/how-loud-versus-how-far-you-turn-amplifier-volume-control

 

[macdiddy]

Hi Meanand Green.

To answer your first question, I have experience of listening to SACD and I personally think that the main difference compared to normal cd is the dynamics, I use a Pioneer PD10 for cd and sacd playback and although its a good cd player, when I put in a sacd disc the first thing I notice is how much more clearer and louder the sound is, instruments seem defined better with better bass.

Another main benefit that SACD's offer over standard cd, is that most (but not all) have a 5.1 surround layer as well as stereo, now unfortunately to hear this you would have to connect your blu-ray player to an AV amp and buy some more speakers , I have gone down this route and the results can be awesome with the right SACD, one of my favourites is Pink Floyds "Dark Side of the Moon"

In answer to your last point, some of the sacds available go for high prices ( I paid £40 for a copy of Dave Brubecks "Time out" but if look closely on amazon, there are some starting for just £6.

My advice, just try one and see how you get on, if you like the sound then fine but if not keep using your Sony cd player.

*smile*

 

[emperor's new clothes]

+1 DSOTM

If you like Mark Knophler, Shangri La is a beautifully produced hybrid SACD/CD. (Can also try BluRay Audio - Bob Marley's Legend superb bass and detail. Marantz ud7007 SA7007 Dali Ikon 6 Mk2, bi amped) I also play the Cd layer on my hifi. An excellent recording remains excellent, but the SADC layer has more detail, wider soundstage and deeper bass. (to my ears)

 

[Al ears]

+1 DSOTM

If you like Mark Knophler, Shangri La is a beautifully produced hybrid SACD/CD. (Can also try BluRay Audio - Bob Marley's Legend superb bass and detail. Marantz ud7007 SA7007 Dali Ikon 6 Mk2, bi amped) I also play the Cd layer on my hifi. An excellent recording remains excellent, but the SADC layer has more detail, wider soundstage and deeper bass. (to my ears)

+1 for the detail, soundstage, plus overall dynamics.

I use a very decent Stello transport and Dac for CDs and Oppo 105eu for SACD and networking. The SACD wins every time.

Disagree that most have a 5.1 layer, only 2 of mine do, and I have quite a few. They are worth looking out for second hand.

 

[macdiddy]

I know, may not be everybodys choice but the 5.1 surround track of this disc is another awesome sound experience, there is a thunderclap at the start of the title track so realistic, I thought it was coming from outside.

Thanks for the review emperor's new c.. I will check out the Mark Knophler sacd, I also have some blu-ray audio discs and can recommend Marvin Gayes "Whats going on".

Anyone else who has their favourite sacd's let us know.

*smile*

 

[MeanandGreen]

Thanks for the responses so far guys! I do like artists such as Dire Straights and Dave Bruebeck. Dark Side of the Moon and Rumours are probably great classic albums worth trying on SACD too.

My main concern is that the Pioneer player doesn't sound as good as my old Sony with standard CDs. The Sony has a much bigger and more spacious soundstage. The Pioneer sounds a bit closed in, in direct comparison which seems a bit odd to me. Surely a newer machine with high res capability should make light work of playing a standard CD to a high standard?

I bought the Pioneer as a Bluray player primarily, with the option of SACD as an added bonus, but I'm wondering if it's going to do the SACD format any justice? It doesn't do CD justice in the way my Sony CD Player does.

Of course I can by an album to try out, I might give some Bluray Audio albums a try too. Just wanted opinons on Bluray machines ability on being a play any disc device.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I genuinely don't think there is a difference....lol

I have a universal DVD player the Pioneer505 it plays all discs. Which I did experiment with in my stereo set .

Now through my speakers I can clearly hear differences between interconnects but the different formats sound the same to me

I have hdcds in my collection and to my ears they sound no different to normal CD's. Played on my CD player the hdcd indicator lights up but I hear no difference.

I also have a Panasonic 500 bluray connected to a Yamaha ra-1020 . My speakers in this set is modest though. The KEF 1000.5 baby eggs which are surprisingly good for films but limited for music.

I have to confess I hear no difference between DTSmaster, normal DTS or DD.

My mate has a superb set up and owns all formats and while I may nod a smile politely when he demos I still hear no difference.......

 

[Covenanter]

I was very sceptical but now that I have a SACD player I do think that the SACD is somewhat better than CD. I've not done any blind testing and I know that blind tests have failed to distinguish any significant differences. Therefore I might be fooling myself but I think there is a little something extra, a little more excitement.

Chris

 

[MeanandGreen]

Thanks for the replies guys. I will order a couple of SACD albums and see what I think of them.

I've bought a better interconnect for the bluray player as the one I had wasn't much better than the most basic freebie types of cable. I've went for Vanne Damme silver plated OFC instrument cable. Very good price custom made up on eBay. The sound with regular CD on the Pioneer Bluray now sounds more on par with my Sony CD Player. Much more lively and 3 dimensional, the sound is projected much more between and around the speakers so the £20 odd on the cable was worthwhile.

I'm more confident that the Pioneer will sound half decent with SACD now, so it should be a worthy enough machine to go and get some albums.

 

[iMark]

I bought my first SACD capable player in 2003, the Pioneer DV-565 (IIRC). SACDs sounded fine on that machine, quite a bit better than the CD layer. In those days I tried to buy hybrid SACDs if I could get them. Unfortunately the DV-565 was made before HDMI was around so when we got a new telly two years ago we decide to get a Sony BDP-S590, which plays SACD but not DVD-A (of which we own exactly 3).

The Sony sounds fine with SACD, on a par with the old Pioneer. Not very impressed with it as a CD player but it sounds fine if I plug it into our DAC. However we never play CD on the machine anyway. We stream our CDs to the DAC with an Airport Express. It's a cracker of DVD and Bluray player though.

Some of my favourite SACDs:

Pink Floyd - DSOTM

Peter Gabriel - 3rd album (a.k.a. Melt) (long out of print)

About a dozen classical SACDs by Ronald Brautigam playing Beethoven on the BIS label. Highly recommended.

Mozart Symphonies 38-41 by the Scottish Chamber Orchestra and Charles Mackerras on Linn Classical. Stunning performance and sound.

What I like about hybrid SACDs is the fact that you can easily rip the CD layer so you can enjoy your music on a portable device and keep the SACD at home. BTW, we don't have a surround system, so I can only compare the stereo layers. Usually there is bit more punch in the SACD layer than in the CD layer.

 

[MeanandGreen]

Thanks for your post iMark.

It's good to read people's opinions on universal players abilities for SACD playback. It seems they may be more competent players of SACD then they are of regular CD, not sure why that is?

I'll have a mooch about for some SACD albums, can't beleive the prices I'm seeing to be honest! Certainly ain't paying £50 odd plus for an album. Jesus!

 

[emperor's new clothes]

£50 ones are probably imports from Japan. Other Asian countries used to be much cheaper and plentiful choice, but exchange rates have probably put paid to that. The merits of DSD streaming are gaining traction in the states, but probably too late to save the disc format. Shame.

Your Pioneer is downmixing DSD (SACD) for analogue output via its DAC. If you connected it to a Pioneer AV amp via HDMI, then the PQLS feature comes into play, feeding DSD ( or DTS/Dolby HD BluRay audio) direct and allegedly reducing jitter in the process. My Marantz duo do this as do Denon via Denon link. On hybrid discs you can chose between CD, SACD stereo and 5.1 on some. My previous Pioneer UD969 & AV5ASi did this via a firewire link. IMHO, these links are no gimmick and makes sticking to one brand a distinct advantage - not often mentioned in magazine reviews with their "mix and match" reccomendations.

 

[GeoffreyW]

My old Pioneer DVD player, DV-575A, plays SACD and DVD-A discs, but annoyingly it won't output SACD sound in 2-channel via either digital output, but only analogue. I last tried it a couple of years ago, out of curiosity but will have to have another go through my new amp, just to see. But, as we don't have a 5.1 setup, it looks as if the best surround effects will elude me. As ammo, I have DSOTM SACD, plus some Living Stereo classical SACD discs to try, and Concert for George Bluray, to try in my Panny Bluray recorder. It'll pass a rainy day, if nothing else.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I have always described SACD as the smoothness of vinyl with the convenience and cleanliness of CD.

That's before we get to well mastered surround sound.

My favourite multichannel recording is ladysmith black mambazo.

 

[MeanandGreen]

Thanks for your experinces chaps!

Tonight was my first SACD experince. I've got Dire Straits Brothers in Arms and The Police Everybreath You Take The Classics.

The biggest things to me going off these 2 albums tonight is that SACD offers tremendous clarity and seperation of instruments. Trebble is so crisp and vocals so prominent and full of character. I don't think I've ever heard bass as clean and as powerful on a domestic set up as I have tonight. The track Money For Nothing sounded nothing less than awsome, serious slam and tightness with incredible clarity and stereo imaging!

I wasn't so keen on the Police album It sounded very clear, but some of the arrangemets are totally different to the originals and not as good musically in my opinion. Sound quality wise although very clear and 3 dimentional it sounded a bit sterile.

So far SACD definitely has a different sound to CD, clarity and space being the main things to me. I'm not sure it's all out better, but I guess it depends on the mastering of the individual albums.

I'm waiting on Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds on SACD to arrive next!

 

[robg1976]

hi meanandgreen off topic i want to ask you can you believe the shocking treatnment to women on this site REF other post earlier

me and my wife thank you for your gebuin advise and forward thinking

surely more women in to our hobby is a good thing right ???

 

[MeanandGreen]

hi meanandgreen off topic i want to ask you can you believe the shocking treatnment to women on this site REF other post earlier

me and my wife thank you for your gebuin advise and forward thinking

surely more women in to our hobby is a good thing right ???

Yes I do agree women being interested and involved is a good thing! It should be encouraged, I'd certainly like to meet a woman who appreciates listening to music on a quality set up. Sadly Hi-Fi as we know it is dying out, I don't even know any men currently who care about Hi-Fi or sound quality, never mind women.

My system is modest by true 'audiophile' standards, but it blows away anything else that my friends and family own. No one else gives a damn, I have to turn to these forums to discuss anything audio related hence this SACD thread. People in real life have never even heard of SACD. I bought a 30 year old tuner recently because the new market for Hi-Fi tuners is practically dead. In another 10 years the 2 channel separates market will be either dead, or just very specialist. Sad but probably true.