Room size and speakers

Shay.M

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2021
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Hello and Hi! How big is the room that fits the wharefedall Diamond 12.3 ? What is the minimum size? in meters please.
Why this specification is never there? It is very important to scale new speakres to the room size. I Think every review must tell the readers what the minimum and the maximum size of room may fit to the speakers on report. The words small medium and large soes not say anything because it is different from one person to another.
 
Tje speakers that fit a certain size room are pretty much down to the listener.
My floorstanders are meant for a larger room but I find they work very well in the room they are currently in because they are front -ported and can be used fairly close to the rear wall.
These factors need to be taken into account as well as room size.
NOTE: the 12.3s are rear ported and will need to be about 70cm from the rear wall

Just how big is your room as I notice, in the other thread you asked the question in, the guys room was 3x3.5m
 
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twinkletoes

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Nov 16, 2021
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Because big speakers can work in small rooms. It’s not always about the size of the room.

then you have pressurisation, some love to feel the music. Some like it loud.

In general large speakers large room.
I don’t consider a room large till over the 7m threshold.

let’s put it this way I have klipsch Cornwalls in a 4x5meter space. And it’s exceptional. In another room I have some klipsch heresy 3 4x3 meter space again great. Both considered large speakers and they are in relatively small spaces. It boils down to positioning. If you follow the manufacturer’s minimum guide lines for space around the speaker you should be fine. If you can’t you’re better off with a small sealed design

just me 2 cents
 
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nopiano

Well-known member
Hello and Hi! How big is the room that fits the wharefedall Diamond 12.3 ? What is the minimum size? in meters please.
Why this specification is never there? It is very important to scale new speakres to the room size. I Think every review must tell the readers what the minimum and the maximum size of room may fit to the speakers on report. The words small medium and large soes not say anything because it is different from one person to another.
The reason you rarely find it suggested is because there’s no hard and fast rule.

Imagine a 5m x 3m room. You might be thinking of a high-ceiling Victorian room with a huge bay window and floor length curtains, with sprung floor, bookcases, and chandelier. I might be thinking of a 5x3 kitchen, dining, living room in a city apartment, hardwood flooring over concrete, down lighters.

Hard to imagine more contrasting spaces!? :unsure:
 
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The reason you rarely find it suggested is because there’s no hard and fast rule.

Imagine a 5m x 3m room. You might be thinking of a high-ceiling Victorian room with a huge bay window and floor length curtains, with sprung floor, bookcases, and chandelier. I might be thinking of a 4x5 kitchen, dining, living room in a city apartment, hardwood flooring over concrete, down lighters.

Hard to imagine more contrasting spaces!? :unsure:
yep! Room size isn't everything and what is small to some is large to others. That said nobody has addressed the OPs question.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
yep! Room size isn't everything and what is small to some is large to others. That said nobody has addressed the OPs question.
I thought I had by the example, but I take your point. And, as you know, I like a challenge!

If we take a look at the manual here:-

We find Wharfedale suggest at least 2 metres between speakers, and at least 700mm from the side walls. So, using my 5x3m example, they won’t work on the shorter wall. On the longer wall they’ll need at least 3.5m, possibly nearer 4m.

Since most listeners prefer sitting a bit further away than the speakers are apart, you’d need to sit, say 3 metres away. But you can’t sit 3 metres away as they’re at least 200mm from the front wall (behind the speakers), the speakers are over 300mm deep, so their front face is 2.5 metres from the rear wall. (Remember we are listening across the 3m width). And you can’t sit closer than about 300mm from the wall behind your ears to avoid boom.

So, 5x3m is too small. I reckon you need about 4.5 x 4m as a minimum floor area therefore.
 
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AJM1981

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Mar 26, 2021
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I am not going to give studio or auditorium setup tips here because that is a different ball game. Been there.

These are just my personal average bedroom and living meets hi-fi with wife acceptance factor tips and I am aware some will shoot at this from a studio or auditorium measure. Anyway..

1. Make the speakers blend in, as in search for colors or materials that match the rest of your furniture and schemes, and leave "breathing space". Loudspeakers are part of the picture. Don't cram things.

2. Dampen reverb with stuff. A carpet, curtains,furniture, huge plants. All help in some degree.

3.Always leave a comfortable central listening position. There should be a space to beam the stereo image well that is also comfortable to position yourself into.

3. "Always" get the loudspeakers that 'you' want to have and feel a certain emotional connection to. It is far more important to listen to a sound you prefer most and look at a design you love to look at for the upcoming decades instead of letting a set of guidelines dictate that you need something the room needs.

I mean, my local dealer could give me a tailored set of model x speakers because it would match on paper, but in that case a set of arbitrary conditions and the dealer would have chosen them, not me. The risk I get bored of the set and replace them earlier is great news for the dealer, but not for me.

I have, by pure opportunity auditioned 5 different kind of loudspeakers in our bedroom. I had an amazing small bookshelf model that felt bigger than it was. But then placed a larger model there and between something that feels larger and "is" larger is a difference which for hi-fi definitely is a huge plus in presence in larger models for me personally. I never play at ear shattering volumes, always low in the late evening and just at comfortable louder volumes normally.

I also tried my quite large 3 way standmounts in the same bedroom and it was still like being in front of a stage. Something that is great at its core is not suddenly beaten in its own way by a smaller model, just because it fits a smaller model in a smaller room theory.
 
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I am not going to give studio or auditorium setup tips here because that is a different ball game. Been there.

These are just my personal average bedroom and living meets hi-fi with wife acceptance factor tips and I am aware some will shoot at this from a studio or auditorium measure. Anyway..

1. Make the speakers blend in, as in search for colors or materials that match the rest of your furniture and schemes, and leave "breathing space". Loudspeakers are part of the picture. Don't cram things.

2. Dampen reverb with stuff. A carpet, curtains,furniture, huge plants. All help in some degree.

3.Always leave a comfortable central listening position. There should be a space to beam the stereo image well that is also comfortable to position yourself into.

3. "Always" get the loudspeakers that 'you' want to have and feel a certain emotional connection to. It is far more important to listen to a sound you prefer most and look at a design you love to look at for the upcoming decades instead of letting a set of guidelines dictate that you need something the room needs.

I mean, my local dealer could give me a tailored set of model x speakers because it would match on paper, but in that case a set of arbitrary conditions and the dealer would have chosen them, not me. The risk I get bored of the set and replace them earlier is great news for the dealer, but not for me.

I have, by pure opportunity auditioned 5 different kind of loudspeakers in our bedroom. I had an amazing small bookshelf model that felt bigger than it was. But then placed a larger model there and between something that feels larger and "is" larger is a difference which for hi-fi definitely is a huge plus in presence in larger models for me personally. I never play at ear shattering volumes, always low in the late evening and just at comfortable louder volumes normally.

I also tried my quite large 3 way standmounts in the same bedroom and it was still like being in front of a stage. Something that is great at its core is not suddenly beaten in its own way by a smaller model, just because it fits a smaller model in a smaller room theory.
and this answers the OPs question?
 

MeanandGreen

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Dec 26, 2012
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This is a grey area - not black & white.

I would suggest downloading the instruction manuals online for any speakers you may be considering to get an idea on the manufactures recommendation regarding placement and proximity to boundary walls and then judge if these guidelines could work in your current listening space.

It‘s more complicated than just room size, room construction, room shape and furniture layout all play vital roles in what speakers can and can’t work in a given space.
 

npxavar

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2022
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Hello and Hi! How big is the room that fits the wharefedall Diamond 12.3 ? What is the minimum size? in meters please.
Why this specification is never there? It is very important to scale new speakres to the room size. I Think every review must tell the readers what the minimum and the maximum size of room may fit to the speakers on report. The words small medium and large soes not say anything because it is different from one person to another.
Distance from rear and side walls affects bass output. If the distances are shorter you will need to use bass controls on you amplifier, which may or may not work regarding on the center frequency of the bass control and the shape of the attenuation curve. In any case, if you can test them in your space you will be able to find out. If the room is smaller than required the bass controls will dictate whether you can live with the bass output or not. Unless you are a bass head of course :)
 

twinkletoes

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Nov 16, 2021
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yep! Room size isn't everything and what is small to some is large to others. That said nobody has addressed the OPs question.

It's touched on above,

Manufacturers do state it in a roundabout way! If you follow their requirements.

In the manual it will usually state the space needed around a speaker and the distance between them, Eg 2-3 meters apart and 90cm into the room and 50-60cm from the side walls. And most standmount's state these sorts of measurements let alone floor standers. Heck, I would struggle with these measurements.

It's quite clear what manufacturers deem a big room and 3x4 meter isn't it.

And to be fair to reviewers like what hi fi they clearly state that some speakers "need breathing room" meaning a BIG room.

For the OP to ask the question about the space needed he/she already knows they don't have the space or at least a passing thought and will struggle. And most don't in this day and age with modern build houses and that's fine.

but as i said they can work but you will have very narrow window of positioning
 
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Jan 18, 2023
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The Wharfedale Diamond 12.3 is a floorstanding speaker, so it should be suitable in any room larger than 16m2. It is recommended to use in rooms between 16-25m2 for best results, but it can be used in larger rooms. As for the minimum size, it could possibly work in a room as small as 8m2, but you may not get all the benefits from the speaker.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
The Wharfedale Diamond 12.3 is a floorstanding speaker, so it should be suitable in any room larger than 16m2. It is recommended to use in rooms between 16-25m2 for best results, but it can be used in larger rooms. As for the minimum size, it could possibly work in a room as small as 8m2, but you may not get all the benefits from the speaker.
If you read my post #8 above you’ll see that you can’t possibly meet Wharfedale’s own criteria in a room of just 8 square metres. Have you maybe tried this yourself?

Welcome to the WHF forum!
 
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AJM1981

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Mar 26, 2021
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The Wharfedale Diamond 12.3 is a floorstanding speaker, so it should be suitable in any room larger than 16m2. It is recommended to use in rooms between 16-25m2 for best results, but it can be used in larger rooms. As for the minimum size, it could possibly work in a room as small as 8m2, but you may not get all the benefits from the speaker.
I doubt about difference in promoting subjective guidelines to a clear instruction vs trying things out in reality when speaking about room size and speaker size and the potential of the speaker.

A speaker that produces a range of frequencies with certain characteristics and detail will still deliver the same range of frequencies and the same amount of detail when you sit in front of them. Just make sure that there is not a subjective amount of 'too much' reverb so details get smudged out. Also make sure that nothing in the room resonates at certain frequencies. This both applies to rooms of all sizes. Treatment over size.

I also prefer a larger room for larger speakers, but there is a difference in speaker potential and room potential. When a larger room is not an option and one likes those wharfedales or any brand and type for what they are, one will still enjoy them within given conditions in a smaller room. It makes no sense in not purchasing a product someone likes in order to make guidelines fit to print and get something else that we have in mind.

Sidenote: I get that a manufacturer can recommend a certain roomsize for a speaker. But also keep in mind that they want to sell a product and are communicating on consumer levels, not audiophile levels. In a sense that when you are about to give a a pair of loudspeaker as a gift as uninformed consumer, it might not be that practical giving floorstanders when there is limited space for placing which can lead to some challenges if the room has furniture along the walls. A simple consumer will just say 'no, not for me.. doesn't fit' and returns them. With the level consumer complaints touch ridiculous levels in the US many rules of thumb are mainly there for the 'we have told you' prevention. That is why bookshelf speakers are recommended for small rooms, since you can place them on something and there is always space, even when there is single to no space left (hang them : P) . But when you can make a larger speaker fit well (absolutely no problem for anyone around here) and you can place yourself in a position to comfortably enjoy their stereo output and bigger sound, most challenges are gone and be their guest to enjoy them.
 
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