Room Acoustics

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Hi i think i have an issue with my room acoustics. Basically i have had a room renovated in my home which is going to be where i listen to music and since the room has been freshly plastered my system sounds quite harsh i think. I dont plan on adding lots of soft furnishings therefore I plan on now having some walls refinished with a 6mm soundproof wallpaper product in an attempt to calm down the harshness within the room and sound transfer to an adjacent room.

My questions are as follows:

Has anybody used a soundproof liner before?

Can i put this on the wall directly behind my speakers?

What are peoples suggestions towards calming harsness down?

Are there any ways i can tweak my system to reduce the harhness?

And is there a difference between harshness and brightness?

I apologise for all the questions in advance. I can show pictures of the room if it helps, the room is approximatley 4m x 5m with wood flooring.

Thanks

 

[Al ears]

I can see here you are going with this one and that from previous thread you have CM8's.

Although I have never used the room treatment you speak of, never had to employ any room treatment come to that, you can do so if you find it cost effective. Room treatment can be carried out to a very high degree and in the end becomes extremely costly.

Ultimately you will be better off selling your speakers and finding others that suit your musical taste.

You could continue treating your room to such a point that, in future, if you change your speakers you might them find it was all a costly waste of time and money.

 

[CnoEvil]

Anything you can do to break up reflections should help....eg. bookshelves, potted plants, rugs, curtains etc; or you can get printed acoustic panels that look like pictures.

Brightness and harshness are not the same (imo). Harshness is always unpleasant and a system can be bright without being harsh.

A picture of your room would certainly help the good folks on here to give more specific suggestions.

 

[matt49]

Can i put this on the wall directly behind my speakers?

The wallpaper you describe will absorb high frequencies. Unless you have dipole speakers (i.e. electrostatic or planar magnetic panels), placing the wallpaper behind your speakers will make no difference, as all the HF is radiated forwards from the speakers, not backwards.

How close is your listening chair to the wall behind it?

Matt

 

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Is there an easy way to paste pictures?

 

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Yes i could change speakers but B&W arent known for being particularly bright. Also the harshness isnt present at moderate levels, its generally once i push the volume to 50/halfway. My amp is Arcam A39 with 120 watts per channel.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes i could change speakers but B&W arent known for being particularly bright.

You could try Sonus Faber, Harbeth, Spendor (including Classic series) and Kef R Series.... I suppose it depends whether it's easier to adapt the room or try different speakers.

 

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[iQ Speakers]

Is there an easy way to paste pictures?

No! I wish I have to do it in Chrome, IE does not work at all.

 

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How do you do this or is it a nightmare to explain?

 

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[URL=http://s265.photobucket.com/user/auditdi/media/IMG_1914.jpg.html][/url]

 

[bigboss]

A 6mm wallpaper will not be enough. Soft furnishings like carpets, curtains and fabric sofas are actually best for acoustics. If you don't want them, then acoustic panels are way to go. Canvas prints with rockwool stuffed in the cavity also act as acoustic panels. Speak to GIK acoustics for advice. If you're planning to attend the Bristol sound and vision show next weekend, you can meet them there as well.

 

[sheggs]

A 6mm wallpaper will not be enough. Soft furnishings like carpets, curtains and fabric sofas are actually best for acoustics. If you don't want them, then acoustic panels are way to go. Canvas prints with rockwool stuffed in the cavity also act as acoustic panels. Speak to GIK acoustics for advice. If you're planning to attend the Bristol sound and vision show next weekend, you can meet them there as well.

Hi,

As big boss says feel free to ask for free advice. Ourselves and many other manufacturers offer advice for free with no obligation to buy our products. Feel free to give our number a call. I am here, rest of this week and until Wednesday.

There is a lot that can be done to tame some of those highs and mids in the room and a relatively little cost. 6mm wallpaper will not do a lot to help this though. This type of brightness is caused by flutter echo, which is where flat parallel surfaces reflect back from one another, this can also be the floor and ceiling.

Need pictures of the room and dimensions ideally. Cost wise acoustics do not need to cost the earth in fact, a lot of treatments are cheaper than a lot of you spend just on cables.

Alternatively we will be at the Brisotl Show next weekend, you can find our products in three different rooms (Naim Statement, Stack Audio, Armour Audio) and I will be there all weekend in Room 322 with Heed Audio

 

[James85]

Hi,

I think you're right to tackle the acoustics in the room rather than speakers etc. Almost any system will sound bright if the room sounds bright. You would also improve this like stereo imaging and get a 'cleaner' sound which eq'ing won't help with.

I'd be a bit careful with the wallpaper stuff. I don't know of anything which is effective like this. Also, it's easy to confuse 'soundproofing' with something that will change the room acoustics. A brief search for 'sound absorption' and 'sound insulation' should explain the differences. What's the product?

There are some simple small steps which can make a difference without you having go too mad. A big shaggy rug wouldn't hurt and will control the bright reflections from the wood floor. Leafy plants are good. The canvas idea can help too, as would a purpose designed kit.

 

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http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii218/auditdi/IMG_1912.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii218/auditdi/IMG_1914.jpg

Im trying to upload photos, i cant believe theres no upload function on this forum.

 

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Finally pictures are up. Thankyou for all your comments so far.

The room isnt completley finished yet so i'm open to ideas in regards to changing the room slightly to improve sound. Although alot of the professional acoustic treatment always appears really obtrusive and im not too keen on foam padding all over the room. I like the idea of canvas on walls, possibly curtains for the french doors. A rug may also may be a serious option.

The product ive been interested in suggest that it can prevent high frequency sound transfer into other rooms. On the opposite side of the wall behind the hifi is a lounge that the Mrs vegitates in and the brightness of vocals can pass through quite loud, even at low volumes. Therefore this is something i really want to control as it will save lots of arguments.

http://www.gowallpaper.co.uk/saarpor-sound-proof-insulating-liner.html

This is a link to a product claiming to do what i need it to.

 

[sheggs]

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii218/auditdi/IMG_1912.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii218/auditdi/IMG_1914.jpg

Im trying to upload photos, i cant believe theres no upload function on this forum.

Yes basically it is just too many flat surfaces. Things I would definately consider -

- Rug in between you and the speakers to stop early refelction points on the floor.

- Curtains over the window

- Panel on back wall and three other panesl down on the flat surfaces of the wall

Will make quite a difference with just that amount. Can insert more panels to taste. Including a small ceiling cloud if you want to kill the reflections form above as well

 

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Hi Sheggs

Thanks for the replies. When you say panels on the side wall i asume this is the right hand side of my seating postion? This is a flat wall with a door in line with my seating position roughly. I assume i can view all these products on your site?

Also would foam behind pictures make much difference? I would like to be as discreet as is reasonably practical.

Thanks

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii218/auditdi/IMG_1912.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii218/auditdi/IMG_1914.jpg

Im trying to upload photos, i cant believe theres no upload function on this forum.

Yes basically it is just oo many flat surfaces. Things I would definately consider -

- Rug in between you and the speakers to stop early refelction points on the floor.

- Curtains over the window

- Panel on back wall and three other panesl down on the flat surfaces of the wall

Will make quite a difference with just that amount. Can insert more panels to taste. Including a small ceiling cloud if you want to kill the reflections form above as well

 

[sheggs]

Hi Sheggs

Thanks for the replies. When you say panels on the side wall i asume this is the right hand side of my seating postion? This is a flat wall with a door in line with my seating position roughly. I assume i can view all these products on your site?

Also would foam behind pictures make much difference? I would like to be as discreet as is reasonably practical.

Thanks

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii218/auditdi/IMG_1912.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii218/auditdi/IMG_1914.jpg

Im trying to upload photos, i cant believe theres no upload function on this forum.

Yes basically it is just oo many flat surfaces. Things I would definately consider -

- Rug in between you and the speakers to stop early refelction points on the floor.

- Curtains over the window

- Panel on back wall and three other panesl down on the flat surfaces of the wall

Will make quite a difference with just that amount. Can insert more panels to taste. Including a small ceiling cloud if you want to kill the reflections form above as well

With your situation I wasn't suggesting neccesarily treating the reflection points, although I would recommend it. Basically you need some panels at speaker height on the flat surfaces, so the right wall where possible would be ideal. Panels like these can be found on our site and others.

With regards to foam behind pictures this would not work (and this includes canvas pictures) because sound will not pass thorugh, it would just be as reflective as the wall. Flutter echo is in the voice range 400hz and above this needs to be able to pass through any materials to be absorbed. Basically sound travels like air, if you can't breathe through it, sound cannot pass through

We have art panels but the fabric is dyed rather than printed

 

[James85]

It isn't quite true that sound needs to pass through, Ecophon and others make absorbers encapsulated in a film which give very good performance. The main thing is that the surface layer isn't too dense/thick, so a canvas can work. You may loose a bit of absorption in the very high frequencies though.

 

[sheggs]

It isn't quite true that sound needs to pass through, Ecophon and others make absorbers encapsulated in a film which give very good performance. The main thing is that the surface layer isn't too dense/thick, so a canvas can work. You may loose a bit of absorption in the very high frequencies though.

Depends what you are using it for. We have traps with membranes to reflect back anything over 400hz and absorb more low end but for flutter echo I would definately recommend full absorption

 

[James85]

Depends what you are using it for. We have traps with membranes to reflect back anything over 400hz and absorb more low end but for flutter echo I would definately recommend full absorption

Just in the context of a home listening room, I expect a typical printed canvas won't have enough density to really affect the absorption much below around 4000Hz.

Sorry, I should have said air doesn't need to pass through, rather than sound.