Room acoustics

[ntune]

Could some expert tell by the included picture, how does my room acoustics affect on low frequencies?

The issues is this: Bass is boomy, hurts ears, and can not be felt. It causes pressure into ears, but not in the body. The louder bass is set, the worse it sounds. But if it's not loud, it can't be noticed at all.

I made thread about this issue few days ago, and followed all the advices with no success. I have come to the conclusion, that it's my room which is

EDITED BY MODS for profanity

messing up the bass. So, I wanted to post a picture, and hear what you think.

As you can see, the room have sloping ceiling, and is full of stuff. There's also bed and bookshelf, which aren't showing in the pic. There's also carpet. That corner is the only possible place for the speakers, as the weight bench doesn't fit anywhere else.

 

[Andrew Everard]

First off, plesae moderate your language.

Second, I think you have a problem you'll only be able to solve with a change of speakers. The ones you have are too big for the room, too close together, you're sittng too close to them and that sloping ceiling and the fact the right speker is in a corner is just compounding the problem.

Sorry to appear negative, but I really can't think of nay other solution.

 

[dave_k]

I agree with Andrew. Perhaps you should try some small bookshelf speakers on stands and a separate subwoofer. You can experiment then on where in the room the sub works best.

 

[Al ears]

Another 'aye you're right!' for Andrew. Those speakers will never work in that room and judging by size and shape you might have problems getting anything to work well. Thought about headphones?

 

[ntune]

I agree with Andrew. Perhaps you should try some small bookshelf speakers on stands and a separate subwoofer. You can experiment then on where in the room the sub works best.

Why would small speakers work better than big ones?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Because they'll deliver tighter, more controlled bass in that room.

 

[ntune]

Because they'll deliver tighter, more controlled bass in that room.

Yeah, sure, but I'm really interested, why is it so? Or more, why big speakers sounds boomy.

 

[the record spot]

OMG, if you'll pardon the yoof speak! Cerwin Vega's ideal customer I think! Yep, in that room, smaller near field monitors will deliver better bass. Depending on budget, you can get some very decent speakers but some actives would definitely be on my shortlist...sorry folks(!)...Yamaha HS80s if you can get them and get a couple of adapters so you can get your CDP or the like into the back of them.

Hang on to the CVs though; one day you'll be moving into a bigger place and New Year begs for a pair of them letting rip...! :rockout:

 

[ntune]

But did you notice how speakers match with the (weight) bench?

 

[The_Lhc]

But did you notice how speakers match with the (weight) bench?

No but I can see the troll hiding in the corner.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Yeah, sure, but I'm really interested, why is it so? Or more, why big speakers sounds boomy.

Because the CV! speakers don't exactly have the most controlled bass in the first place, they're overdriving the room, and the location in which you have them is just about perfect to create every possible kind of boundary reinforcement known to man. In other words, you've more or less got them in a giant horn, at the mouth of which you sit.

Smaller speakers will deliver less bass, and their size will enable you to get them further away from the boundaries.

 

[ntune]

I tried, how they sounds in the middle of the room, but they sound the same :wall:

How would do cheap active studio monitors, like Behringer TRUTH B3031A? I'm pleased to hear your suggestion.

 

[Overdose]

They would do just fine. Depends on your budget, but I found my Dynaudios for <£500.

Second hand all the way for me.

 

[ntune]

I could also buy Pioneer S-DJ08. Some professional recommended them.

But they have 8" woofer, are them too big?

 

[Anonymous]

I could also buy Pioneer S-DJ08. Some professional recommended them.

But they have 8" woofer, are them too big?

Not too big for that room, no.

I'd suggest moving the speakers a bit out from the walls if you can and sitting further back, see if it helps at all, even temporarily.

Other than that, I'd suggest something like Monitor Audio RX1's with a small sub. Think REL Quake, sorta thing.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

As I mentioned in one of your earlier threads you will get more from less. The Pioneer's really will give you the punch you are after as they are far tighter in their sound than the Cerwin's. The CV's have never produced clean, tight,accurate bass as thay push the bottom end so much it colours the attack. Your room is far too small for them as well and is overpressurised when you turn them up. As Andrew mentions you are sitting far to close to get any benefit - more than likely there is lots more bass a metre back.

 

[ntune]

Damn, I should have believed you the first time. Now I have hard time selling those cerwin's, which I bought from abroad. It sucks to pay 800 euros for sound worse than computer speakers.

 

[lindsayt]

A few suggestions:

1. are the speakers wired in phase? There are test recordings available to check this. Or just temporarily position them face to face 1 cm apart. Play some music. Swap the + and - connections for 1 speaker either at the amplifier end or the speaker end. Play the same music again. The connection that gives you most bass is in phase and is the connection to keep.

2. What's that blue stuff you've got the speakers standing on? Is it a cushion or towel? What happens when you place the speakers directly on the floor? If you're afraid of scratching your floor, then make sure the speakers are on something rigid, such as paving blocks.

3. What sort of music are you playing? Any specific well known songs where they sound particularly bad? Maybe the speakers are just playing what's on the recording?

4. How do they sound when you listen to them sitting on the floor, with your ears at about the level of the midrange units?

5. They are only £500 (new) - bass reflex speakers. One can't expect miracles in terms of sound quality at this price. Bass reflex designs tend to introduce big fat compromises when it when comes to bass sound quality. Seeing as you like bass, try to buy or borrow a pair of Yahama NSM1000's - or something similar. Something with a sealed box design, 12" or bigger bass cones, high quality drivers - as reflected in their price when new but not necessarily in their 2nd hand price.

6. Try a different amp and source, eg some 1980's classic amp for under £50. CD's ripped onto your PC and played via a decent but inexpensive external DAC.

7. Looking at your other thread, don't worry about using bare wires clamped into your speakers and amp terminals. That's what I use.

 

[ntune]

Tahnk you for good message!

A few suggestions:

1. are the speakers wired in phase? There are test recordings available to check this. Or just temporarily position them face to face 1 cm apart. Play some music. Swap the + and - connections for 1 speaker either at the amplifier end or the speaker end. Play the same music again. The connection that gives you most bass is in phase and is the connection to keep.

I have checked the polarity three times. Where I can find those test tracks?

2. What's that blue stuff you've got the speakers standing on? Is it a cushion or towel? What happens when you place the speakers directly on the floor? If you're afraid of scratching your floor, then make sure the speakers are on something rigid, such as paving blocks.

It's a towel. It's there to eliminate floor resonating, but it really doesn't affect in sound.

3. What sort of music are you playing? Any specific well known songs where they sound particularly bad? Maybe the speakers are just playing what's on the recording?

I have played from classical to techno. Every music sounds the same. Also, I have tried from both iPod and tuner.

4. How do they sound when you listen to them sitting on the floor, with your ears at about the level of the midrange units?

Not difference. Bass is maybe a very little bit louder.

5. They are only £500 (new) - bass reflex speakers. One can't expect miracles in terms of sound quality at this price. Bass reflex designs tend to introduce big fat compromises when it when comes to bass sound quality. Seeing as you like bass, try to buy or borrow a pair of Yahama NSM1000's - or something similar. Something with a sealed box design, 12" or bigger bass cones, high quality drivers - as reflected in their price when new but not necessarily in their 2nd hand price.

May I expect better performance than my 200e Logitech computer speakers? Bass is loud, but lacks the pressure. If I close my ears, I can't feel it. It's just flat note, which dominates the whole sound and make me want to turn it down. It sounds just horrible. Even the speak in radio is coloured by that "bass tone" by +0dB bass adjustment. If I use receiver's Pure Audio -mode, the bass dissappears completely.

6. Try a different amp and source, eg some 1980's classic amp for under £50. CD's ripped onto your PC and played via a decent but inexpensive external DAC.

This can't be the issue. 80W amp HAVE TO BE enough for even little punch. 1300 euro's system CAN'T sound worse than my computer speakers, which it totally do now :wall:

7. Looking at your other thread, don't worry about using bare wires clamped into your speakers and amp terminals. That's what I use.

Fine, I have checked the connections many times.

 

[lindsayt]

Tahnk you for good message!

I have checked the polarity three times. Where I can find those test tracks?

It's a towel. It's there to eliminate floor resonating, but it really doesn't affect in sound.

I have played from classical to techno. Every music sounds the same. Also, I have tried from both iPod and tuner.

Not difference. Bass is maybe a very little bit louder.

May I expect better performance than my 200e Logitech computer speakers? Bass is loud, but lacks the pressure. If I close my ears, I can't feel it. It's just flat note, which dominates the whole sound and make me want to turn it down. It sounds just horrible. Even the speak in radio is coloured by that "bass tone" by +0dB bass adjustment. If I use receiver's Pure Audio -mode, the bass dissappears completely.

This can't be the issue. 80W amp HAVE TO BE enough for even little punch. 1300 euro's system CAN'T sound worse than my computer speakers, which it totally do now :wall:

Fine, I have checked the connections many times.

Polarity test tracks can be found by Googling "speaker polarity test" and by clicking on the first link that comes up (audiocheck.net). For a vinyl system, there's also a polarity test on the old Shure test lp.

With all of the speakers that I've even owned, I've found that the bass is slightly better when it's difficult to rock the speaker - ie when they're sitting on something rigid. Also, the quality of bass from my speakers is dependant on them getting fed a decent bass signal from my source and amps. It's possible that a series of small improvements could get you towards decent bass. It's also possible that a series of small improvements won't make enough of a difference and that those speakers in that room (or possibly any room) will never work properly.

On the face of it, it seems crazy that your Logitech speakers sound better than the Cerwin's. It sounds like you're suffering from extreme one-note-bass? And that if we were to plot a frequency response curve we'd get a peak shaped like the cartoon bump on Tom's head after he's been hit by a hammer by Jerry?

How does your system sound if you place it in a different room? IE can you quantify how much the problem is down to your system, inparticular the speakers, and how much the room?

 

[ntune]

I reserved it and tested it with high quality testing tracks. Polarity was correct.Also, when I played "the low rumble sound", I can see the 12" woofers moving 1-2cm. It sounds OK, but still, it lacks the feel.When I closed my ears, I couldn't notice the bass existence. And even the receiver is just 80W, shouldn't it still produce greater bass than Logitech's?And I noticed, that the wires have darkened (just like they have burned) just in 2 weeks :shock: And, could the misalignment of the fuses cause overwhelming bass with the lack of punch?Or maybe it's the receiver? Without processing (Pure Audio mode) there's less bass than old 2.0 computer speakers.
I reserved it and tested polarity with high quality testing tracks. Phase was correct.Also, when I played "the low rumble sound", I can see the 12" woofers moving 1-2cm. It SOUNDS OK, but still, it lacks THE FEEL.When I closed my ears, I couldn't notice the bass existence. And even the receiver is just 80W, shouldn't it still produce greater bass than Logitech's?

And I noticed, that the wires have darkened (just like they have burned) just in 2 weeks :shock: And, could the misalignment of the fuses cause overwhelming bass with the lack of punch?

Or maybe it's the receiver? Without processing (Pure Audio mode) there's less bass than old 2.0 computer speakers. Issue can't be the room, now when I think about it. Otherwise, how would my other speakers produce decent bass?

 

[lindsayt]

A bit of oxidisation on your cables won't be causing the bass problems you've been having. You can always coat them with a bit of silver solder (if you or a friend has a soldering iron) to keep the ends of your cables shinier for longer.

Please let us know how you get on when you try different amps / speakers / a different room.

Also, have you heard any systems that have the sort of good sounding bass with physical impact that you're after? If so, what components were in that system?

 

[Lee H]

I reserved it and tested it with high quality testing tracks. Polarity was correct.Also, when I played "the low rumble sound", I can see the 12" woofers moving 1-2cm. It sounds OK, but still, it lacks the feel.When I closed my ears, I couldn't notice the bass existence. And even the receiver is just 80W, shouldn't it still produce greater bass than Logitech's?And I noticed, that the wires have darkened (just like they have burned) just in 2 weeks :shock: And, could the misalignment of the fuses cause overwhelming bass with the lack of punch?Or maybe it's the receiver? Without processing (Pure Audio mode) there's less bass than old 2.0 computer speakers.
Issue can't be the room, now when I think about it. Otherwise, how would my other speakers produce decent bass?

OK, that has been explained to you before; clearly and competently. I'm starting to get the feeling that the couple of threads you have running are a bit of a wind up.

 

[The_Lhc]

OK, that has been explained to you before; clearly and competently. I'm starting to get the feeling that the couple of threads you have running are a bit of a wind up.

Like I said, three or four days ago...

 

[ntune]

I reserved it and tested it with high quality testing tracks. Polarity was correct.Also, when I played "the low rumble sound", I can see the 12" woofers moving 1-2cm. It sounds OK, but still, it lacks the feel.When I closed my ears, I couldn't notice the bass existence. And even the receiver is just 80W, shouldn't it still produce greater bass than Logitech's?And I noticed, that the wires have darkened (just like they have burned) just in 2 weeks :shock: And, could the misalignment of the fuses cause overwhelming bass with the lack of punch?Or maybe it's the receiver? Without processing (Pure Audio mode) there's less bass than old 2.0 computer speakers.
Issue can't be the room, now when I think about it. Otherwise, how would my other speakers produce decent bass?

OK, that has been explained to you before; clearly and competently. I'm starting to get the feeling that the couple of threads you have running are a bit of a wind up.

Then can you explain, how does subwoofer produce decent bass in the same place, where cerwin's doesn't cut it, and vice versa?