Retro Amp 70s 80s 90s Shootout: Sansui AU-317 - NAD 3120 - Marantz PM 80 MkII

[record_spot]

Yes, the very thing this forum needs with all its contemporary, height of the 21st Centruy tech - a retro-amp shootout with gear that's older than most of us combined!

Some background - in recent months I acquired a pair of AVI DM5 active speakers which are pretty much old school actives - no preamp, no streaming services, no DAC. You need to do it all outwith the boxes.

So that got me thinking, it might be nice to harness an old NAD amp, given its excellent preamp and phono amp capabilities and so it went from there.

Then I saw a Marantz PM80 Mk II and not long after a Sansui AU-317 (arriving tomorrow) and so it begins: a Wak-A-Mole shootout!

As it stands just now, and not having heard the Sansui (but, having previously owned an AU-217, I've a reasonable idea what to expect), the NAD 3120 is recapped and brought up to a present day spec and waiting to go, the Marantz is being run in for a few days now and no thanks to the f***wits at ParcelFarce, and we'll see what the Sansui brings.

So far, my impressions of the NAD are that it works brilliantly within its' window - stray beyond its remit and you'll be reminded in short order that it is indeed a 20watt amp. Stay within its borders though and you'll have a really great musical experience.

The Marantz is a much smoother performer though - ample power on tap, effortless indeed and a Damping Factor to make other amps weep, it doesn't really mind what it has to do, it'll peel away the layers of a musical onion and pare it all back. Sometimes it feels like a revelation and yet others, it's deeply frustrating - in practice, it's neutral. It'll paint what's there and the speaker gets on with it. It's an amp that doesn't get in the way of the recording, but my God, when it sings, it's breathtaking. This was £400 quid 30 years ago? Bargain. Let's see what tomorrow brings...

 

[Cricketbat70]

Just searched that Marantz on Google. That's a nice looking amp. First few that popped up on eBay still over £400.

 

[davidf]

Used to own a 317.

 

[nopiano]

Used to own a 317.

I remember selling them like hotcakes, especially with the tasty Sansui turntables of the day. Made a nice change from NAD and Dual. Lovely amps for the money!

 

[nopiano]

The Marantz is a much smoother performer though - ample power on tap, effortless indeed and a Damping Factor to make other amps weep, it doesn't really mind what it has to do, it'll peel away the layers of a musical onion and pare it all back. Sometimes it feels like a revelation and yet others, it's deeply frustrating - in practice, it's neutral. It'll paint what's there and the speaker gets on with it. It's an amp that doesn't get in the way of the recording, but my God, when it sings, it's breathtaking.

It’s surely a category above the NAD and Sansui? Is the the model with the class A option? Very nice kit!

There’s a SE model in black, and silver ones suffixed a. A bit rusty on these, but I expect it’s twice as good as my old PM40 that needs a bit of TLC, though probably not much beyond switch cleaner. It dates from c 1993, is that contemporary with your PM80 ll?

 

[record_spot]

Just searched that Marantz on Google. That's a nice looking amp. First few that popped up on eBay still over £400.

Yep, they still go for respectable, but not silly money. Build is pretty decent too.

 

[record_spot]

It’s surely a category above the NAD and Sansui? Is the the model with the class A option? Very nice kit!

There’s a SE model in black, and silver ones suffixed a. A bit rusty on these, but I expect it’s twice as good as my old PM40 that needs a bit of TLC, though probably not much beyond switch cleaner. It dates from c 1993, is that contemporary with your PM80 ll?

It should be, but there's no question it has a very different tonal presentation and some quirks that surprised me during playback. I've a few test tracks that I like to run through and one or two of them came across with some instruments slightly suppressed (which is the best way I can describe it). Happened on a couple of other CDs too. very odd!

That said, I think it might be that it needs a better speaker than the MS10i - no offence Mordaunt-Short fans - but good though they are, I think this amp can handle way more. The Class A thing? That's another story...!

 

[record_spot]

So, we've got all three in the living room now.

First up, the Sansui needs a service, and maybe a recap job. Boo...

The clarity just isn't there which is one thing I recalled from the 217 and 717 I had before. I think the seller had given it a wipe down with a cloth, checked the inputs worked, and turned the volume knob up to full, hence the minor crackle at the top end. otherwise, condition is pretty excellent, no major scratches, dents, dings or the like but the sound is way off. Which is always a risk with older gear, but it's a good candidate for a trip to one of the servicing techs in my area, or maybe EARS over in East Lothian.

So, we can now add the Sansui AU-317 to the Thorens TD160 and Kenwood DP-7090 that need some TLC. I'm hoping those three patients will come up the picture of health in a few months!

As a result, the three way shootout just went down a notch to a two way one. I'll have a good listen over the weekend to the NAD and the Marantz. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but I'll write-up some notes next week and add them in here.

 

[makinmusic]

Running a Nad 3225pe here with a technics graphics equaliser and technics turntable with a pair of toa wedge cabs and it can belt some sound out still for it's age

 

[record_spot]

So, I've had a good few days running in the Marantz PM80-II. What to say?

Initially, I paired it with some Mordaunt Short MS10i standmount speakers which, while really very good entry level speakers, with a performance way beyond both their price tag and the term "entry level" itself, don't really give the Marantz the kind of partnership it deserves.

So it was pretty handy that a pair of Mission 751s turned up just after lunchtime today (March 5th, 2026). The Mordaunt Shorts were quickly removed and the 751s took pole position.

Source gear was my venerable Cambridge Audio 752BD, also a Pioneer PD-8700 CD player which dates from the early 90s. On the DAC side, the Cambridge DACMagic 200M handling TV duties and the feed from the Wiim Pro Plus for Spotify Lossless. Speaker cable is QED XT25. No subwoofer, just the Missions.

So, that's the system - Marantz amp, various sources (but mainly CD with the occasional record) and Mission 751s.

This amp is a real conundrum; a big beefy old thing with a performance that's much the opposite of what you might expect just from looking at it. There's plenty of power there, but it's very understated. It worked well with the MS10i speakers, but they tend to have a slightly veiled sound to their nature - a minor trade off for what is an otherwise superb little speaker (and a steal for the £100 or so you'll pay for a mint pair today) - but midrange was lush and bass was present when it needed to be and not ever-present when it didn't.

With the 751s in place, themselves an early 90s model I used to own at that time. Back then they were partnered with a Marantz CD-52 Mk II and an Arcam Alpha 5 amp - a classic 90s setup that delivered on the sound quality.

I'd forgotten what a sturdy standmount the 751 is. Selling for just £300 on release, the thing I remembered most about them was how well they delivered the sound I really like - clarity and detail that lets you see right into the recording, but without sacrificing the soul of a piece. Popped onto a pair of Mission Stancette stands, it felt like welcoming an old friend home, but had the years been kind?

So, with everything up and running, I let the Missions run in a little with some TV on in the background. I'd no idea how much the previous owner had used them or how long they'd maybe lain unused, so it made sense to give them a warm up. Once done, I loaded an album onto the Cambridge 752BD, this case, the recent Analogue Productions SACD of Genesis' "A Trick of the Tail" and then "The Yes Album" by Yes.

And I was pretty underwhelmed. Something wasn't gelling here.

So, I decided to eschew the Cambridge and brought out another early 90s stalwart, this time in the shape of Pioneer's PD-8700 CD player. I even swapped the recapped NAD 3120 back in just to check.

The NAD has many strengths and they were immediately obvious again here. A real focus on the music, decent control while the soundstage was reduced, it was still enjoyable, but having had almost a week with the PM80-II, it wasn't happening for the 3120. Something was still not quite right and the Marantz was back in play. The change was pretty obvious.

I moved the speakers around too. Shifting them back towards the wall, closer in with a slightly narrower, but more precise image, but then settled on moving them further into the room, maybe four feet from the back wall and around maybe seven feet from my seat. They were separated by roughly 7ft of space between them.

So, with the gear matching all done, I went back to the music. I grabbed an early Polydor CD of Jean-Michel Jarre's 1976 Oxygene album and popped it on. There's a lot going on in this album, but the system wasn't remotely fazed by it. The Marantz keeps a tight grip on the 751s but it's not just about control, there's real insight going on in here.

The layers in the music become so much more apparent, in the same way as the vocal harmonies throughout Genesis' A Trick of the Tail are more readily obvious. "Starship Trooper" from The Yes Album has all the scale its explosive opening bars absolutely demand and "Oxygene 5" skips along and it never misses a beat.

"The Changeling" from The Doors' "LA Woman" album is out the traps with its funk-laden beats and it's almost like hearing the album for the first time. Jim Morrison's practically in the room. The track "Hyacinth House" from the same album is just breathtaking - at first you think the amp isn't all that bassy, but Jerry Scheff's basslines are all over this track and they're not hiding in the background anywhere. When they go deep, you don't miss a beat. The Marantz is all over it.

This setup is immensely enjoyable to listen to. I'd originally had notions of doing a three way shootout here, but with the Sansui on the hospital waiting list, the NAD and the Marantz faced off and in truth, it was more of a massacre. The NAD's preamp section, including its phono stage are not to be sniffed at however and will work well with active speakers, or a power amp or two.

I've given my impressions based on the Class AB side of the Marantz, I've given the Class A side of the PM80-II a run but not massively convinced by their implementation of it in the stock amp. I've read one contributor in another audio forum who was certain that Marantz hadn't exactly given their best with the Class A option and tweaked a couple of things internally that made a significant improvement. One for down the line.

I enjoy this sound very much, but others might want for a greater bass bloom presence. This is a fairly neutral setup to some extent. It doesn't gild the lily when it comes to the shortfalls of a recording, neither does it go overboard in praise of another. In the parlance of Martin Scorcese movies, "it is what it is".

There's also some online gripes about the build quality of this amp. To be fair, I've not experienced any issues with the PM80-II that weren't thanks to ParcelForce's butchered delivery (one knackered row of speaker inputs - thankfully, there are two).

I've rocked up at a few hifi shows in recent years and just attended the Bristol show the other week, I have to say that the technology of the 1990s - which in hifi terms is pretty much a pensioner today (or getting on for one, much like this writer!) - stacks up ridiculously well against its 21st Century contemporaries.

Much like @matthewpianist has found with his 1960s Quad gear, there's a place for this stuff today. Careful shopping around and a bit of reading up beforehand, will net you some pretty superb gear for relatively little outlay.

And the bottom line? Well, here's the numbers:-

Marantz PM80-II amplifier - £190
Pioneer PD8700 CD player - £100 (bought in 2022)
Mission 751 speakers - £190
QED XT25 terminated speaker cable - £45

£525 all in.

That of course disregards two other amplifiers (the NAD and the Sansui (£400 the pair) which will go on to enjoy fulfilling lives here), a Nakamichi cassette deck (£200) and the Mordaunt Short speakers, another £100. So about a £1,200 all in. Not chump change, but it's been fun playing around with some gear I either hadn't used before or just fancied giving a spin. I'm really not loaded, just an IT contractor with a hobby.

And that's very much it. Not just for the spending, but for this write-up. Hope you've enjoyed it, it's been fun to do, not much of a shootout in the end, but I think what it demonstrates is the amount of quality gear that's out there within easy reach that might well still outperform its newer brethren.

 

[matthewpianist]

Thanks for the update @record_spot, it's an interesting read, especially as I own a pair of the Mordaunt-Shorts, and have owned a pair of 751s and have a NAD 3120 in the cupboard (recapped but with a noisy phono stage).

It's certainly possible to achieve excellent sound for relatively small change by buying older kit carefully, and my own bargains have included the Mordaunt-Shorts (mint for about £40), JPW Sonatas (mint for £36), the Rogers in my signature (about £100 IIRC) and a Sony CDP990 (less than £100 in full working order). The Quad 33/303 were pricier, fully serviced and recapped, and I ended up selling them at a loss, simply because I didn't find them practical, and although wonderful in some respects, they weren't quite the all-rounders I really need. The Audiolab (and the Mission 778X I also have) is much better in that respect, though an altogether costlier proposition.

I agree with your comments about the Mordaunt-Shorts - for the money I paid they're a steal, and I could certainly live with them, but they aren't the full story. The Rogers LS2a/2, of similar vintage, offer greater insight into the music if perhaps being slightly fussy about positioning with regard to focus and soundstage. The JPW Sonatas are more natural sounding than either, and with decent proximity to the wall (they're a sealed design and need reinforcement) they offer good extension for their size. I have a pair of Fyne Audio F301i, and these are more complete all-rounders than any of the older speakers, especially at their outgoing price of £219. I also currently have a pair of Dali Kupids here - not something I've purchased, but because we're stocking them at work and it's a chance to give them a good test on the end of a really decent system in a home environment. They're tiny, but promising considering their size and price.

I'm not going to experiment further myself, because I really can't afford to do any further box swapping, but it will be interesting to read how you get on with your adventures, especially once you get the Sansui sorted.

 

[RoA]

It's nice to revive and use older equipment. Not just do you save the planet but the joy of owning something unusal (these days) and the knowledge of money saved is great. I also find that the need to upgrade is far less urgent. No manufacturer adverts or influencers telling you that the product launched 6 months ago is now old hat. Add to that if you put a little TLC into the product you appreciate it more. I use an ancient pair of 752 Freedoms and have done quite a bit of restoring and adding to it. Like your speakers, supremely made and a joy to look at.