Replacing the M1 integrated amp by the M1 preamp?

ANWKLO

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My existing system are Roksan Kandy K2 CDP, Caspian M1 Integrated Amp, M1 mono blocks and Roksan FR-5 loudspeakers.

My original setup is M1 integrated amp pre-out to M1 mono blocks. Roksan recommends M1 integrated amp bi-amp with the M1 mono blocks. This arrangement offers more control and improve imaging and clarity over my original setup.

Please advise if there is any improvment by replacing the M1 integrated amp by the M1 preamp?
 

WinterRacer

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Are you currently bi-amping your speakers? Do you find using the integrated to drive the tweeters sounds better than using just the mono-blocs (I.e., using just the Pre section of the integrated)?

My experience is that bi-amping isn't usually worthwhile (unless the speakers have unusual load characteristics) but I also doubt you'd hear much benefit from switching the integrated for a Pre.

Tbh, I'd just stick with what you've got, it should be a cracking system!
 

ANWKLO

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Are you currently bi-amping your speakers? > Yes

Do you find using the integrated to drive the tweeters sounds better than using just the mono-blocs (I.e., using just the Pre section of the integrated)? > Yes

I am also doubtful if there is much benefit from switching the integrated for a Pre ???
 

ANWKLO

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WishTree said:
I have not heard these specific ones but in general a dedicated pre works better than Integrated when the purpose is to use as a pre-amp only.

I think it is definitely true in this situation.
 

WinterRacer

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ANWKLO,

What I meant was, I doubt a dedicated pre-amp will bring any improvments to using the integrated as a pre-amp. However, I haven't compared the two - I've only owned the Caspian pre and mono-blocs, not a Caspian integrated.

Also, in your setup you say that bi-amping is beneficial. If you replace your integrated with a dedicated pre-amp you'll no longer be able to bi-amp (unless you buy another power-amp). I'm sceptical of bi-amping, but as you've found it brings improvements to your system, perhaps you should stick with what you've got?
 

ANWKLO

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WinterRacer said:
ANWKLO,

What I meant was, I doubt a dedicated pre-amp will bring any improvments to using the integrated as a pre-amp. However, I haven't compared the two - I've only owned the Caspian pre and mono-blocs, not a Caspian integrated.

Also, in your setup you say that bi-amping is beneficial. If you replace your integrated with a dedicated pre-amp you'll no longer be able to bi-amp (unless you buy another power-amp). I'm sceptical of bi-amping, but as you've found it brings improvements to your system, perhaps you should stick with what you've got?

WinterRacer,

Thank you for your advice.

Since I bought M1 integrated amp before adding a pair of M1 mono blocks. Now, although I found the M1 integrated amp bi-amp with M1 mono blocks is better than M1 integrated pre-out to M1 mono blocks. I am still not sure whether M1 pure pre-amp to M1 mono blocks is better than M1 integrated amp bi-amp with M1 mono blocks.
 

Charlie Jefferson

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ANWKLO said:
WinterRacer said:
ANWKLO,

What I meant was, I doubt a dedicated pre-amp will bring any improvments to using the integrated as a pre-amp. However, I haven't compared the two - I've only owned the Caspian pre and mono-blocs, not a Caspian integrated.

Also, in your setup you say that bi-amping is beneficial. If you replace your integrated with a dedicated pre-amp you'll no longer be able to bi-amp (unless you buy another power-amp). I'm sceptical of bi-amping, but as you've found it brings improvements to your system, perhaps you should stick with what you've got?

WinterRacer,

Thank you for your advice.

Since I bought M1 integrated amp before adding a pair of M1 mono blocks. Now, although I found the M1 integrated amp bi-amp with M1 mono blocks is better than M1 integrated pre-out to M1 mono blocks. I am still not sure whether M1 pure pre-amp to M1 mono blocks is better than M1 integrated amp bi-amp with M1 mono blocks.

I've been reading this thread with some interest, as I have the pre&mono block combination. At the time of purchase I had the option to go for a stand alone Caspian integrated or adding the power amp or three box option I plumped for. I heard all combos in store but was only able to talk one home for trial purposes. So although my relatively brief in-store listening session gave a chance to compare I've often wondered whether I over-spent. Could I have had similar sound for less money and with one or two less boxes?

Nothing by way of pertinent insight I'm afraid but thought I'd add to the thread.

Keep us informed if you come up with anymore findings.
 

ANWKLO

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Charlie Jefferson said:
ANWKLO said:
WinterRacer said:
ANWKLO,

What I meant was, I doubt a dedicated pre-amp will bring any improvments to using the integrated as a pre-amp. However, I haven't compared the two - I've only owned the Caspian pre and mono-blocs, not a Caspian integrated.

Also, in your setup you say that bi-amping is beneficial. If you replace your integrated with a dedicated pre-amp you'll no longer be able to bi-amp (unless you buy another power-amp). I'm sceptical of bi-amping, but as you've found it brings improvements to your system, perhaps you should stick with what you've got?

WinterRacer,

Thank you for your advice.

Since I bought M1 integrated amp before adding a pair of M1 mono blocks. Now, although I found the M1 integrated amp bi-amp with M1 mono blocks is better than M1 integrated pre-out to M1 mono blocks. I am still not sure whether M1 pure pre-amp to M1 mono blocks is better than M1 integrated amp bi-amp with M1 mono blocks.

I've been reading this thread with some interest, as I have the pre&mono block combination. At the time of purchase I had the option to go for a stand alone Caspian integrated or adding the power amp or three box option I plumped for. I heard all combos in store but was only able to talk one home for trial purposes. So although my relatively brief in-store listening session gave a chance to compare I've often wondered whether I over-spent. Could I have had similar sound for less money and with one or two less boxes?

Nothing by way of pertinent insight I'm afraid but thought I'd add to the thread.

Keep us informed if you come up with anymore findings.

Hi,

How do you describe the sound of your Roksan M1 pre and mono. Are they drive B&W 805 Signature well?
 

Charlie Jefferson

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ANWKLO said:
Charlie Jefferson said:
ANWKLO said:
WinterRacer said:
ANWKLO,

What I meant was, I doubt a dedicated pre-amp will bring any improvments to using the integrated as a pre-amp. However, I haven't compared the two - I've only owned the Caspian pre and mono-blocs, not a Caspian integrated.

Also, in your setup you say that bi-amping is beneficial. If you replace your integrated with a dedicated pre-amp you'll no longer be able to bi-amp (unless you buy another power-amp). I'm sceptical of bi-amping, but as you've found it brings improvements to your system, perhaps you should stick with what you've got?

WinterRacer,

Thank you for your advice.

Since I bought M1 integrated amp before adding a pair of M1 mono blocks. Now, although I found the M1 integrated amp bi-amp with M1 mono blocks is better than M1 integrated pre-out to M1 mono blocks. I am still not sure whether M1 pure pre-amp to M1 mono blocks is better than M1 integrated amp bi-amp with M1 mono blocks.

I've been reading this thread with some interest, as I have the pre&mono block combination. At the time of purchase I had the option to go for a stand alone Caspian integrated or adding the power amp or three box option I plumped for. I heard all combos in store but was only able to talk one home for trial purposes. So although my relatively brief in-store listening session gave a chance to compare I've often wondered whether I over-spent. Could I have had similar sound for less money and with one or two less boxes?

Nothing by way of pertinent insight I'm afraid but thought I'd add to the thread.

Keep us informed if you come up with anymore findings.

Hi,

How do you describe the sound of your Roksan M1 pre and mono. Are they drive B&W 805 Signature well?

I'm hopeless at describing sounds and struggle with the usual glossary of HiFi terms. However, my own direct comparisons when I first got the Roksan kit were with my previously loved Arcam A85/P90 amp combo.

I think my initial impressions were of the considerable improvements in soundstage and, when needed, slam and grunt. Low level listening was good too. My wife, an informed judge of sound and music, missed what we reluctantly accepted was the oft-mentioned "warmth" of the Arcams. She slowly got used to the critical but musical nature of the Caspians.

Overall, and this is when up against the Arcams, the Roksan kit seems to kick out more sound, more music and with greater oomph.

Less strain, more gain.
 

ANWKLO

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Lost Angeles said:
Would the Caspian CDP not give you a more significant improvement ?

M1 CDP's vocal is real, separation and density is better than K2. K2 CDP is more clear, transparent and spacious.
 

WinterRacer

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ANWKLO said:
Are there any advice please?

Is there anything about your system that you don't like or is annoying you?

If not, as you've found bi-amping to be beneficial for your system, my advice is to stick with what you've got.
 

ANWKLO

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WinterRacer said:
ANWKLO said:
Are there any advice please?

Is there anything about your system that you don't like or is annoying you?

If not, as you've found bi-amping to be beneficial for your system, my advice is to stick with what you've got.

No. someone advises a dedicated preamp is design for the mono block / power amp traditionally. Besides, someone says the integrated amp is 85 watts and mono block is 100watts, there is some mismatch of sound.
 

WinterRacer

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Roksan offer pre-outs on the integrated to allow you to use it as a pre-amp or to allow bi-amping, so don't worry what someone said. The mono-blocs and the integrated do have different power outputs, but their gain is the same. Tweeters require far less power than woofers, 85 for your tweeters is plenty.

Enjoy what you've got, it's a really nice system.
smiley-cool.gif
 

ANWKLO

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WinterRacer said:
Roksan offer pre-outs on the integrated to allow you to use it as a pre-amp or to allow bi-amping, so don't worry what someone said. The mono-blocs and the integrated do have different power outputs, but their gain is the same. Tweeters require far less power than woofers, 85 for your tweeters is plenty.

Enjoy what you've got, it's a really nice system.
smiley-cool.gif

Your explanation is really reasonable. I don't know the answer until for A/B test.
smiley-embarassed.gif


Below is Mr Reuben of Roksan's advice to me in red:

M1 integrated amp drive HF, M1 mono blocks drive LF (bi-amp) I would use this arrangement as it offers more control and will improve imaging and clarity.

The introduction of a dedicated pre amp to our current set up will improve the quality of the presentation. Separation and clarity in specific will be much improved. Offering more detailed more realistic sound stage.

The following link is Roksan designer, Touraj Moghaddam recommend M1 integraeted amp Bi-amp 2 x Mseries-1 Mono amps.

http://www.roksan.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2242&highlight=mono
 

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