• If you ever spot Spam (either in the forums, or received via forum direct message) please use the Report button at the bottom of each post to make sure a Moderator can handle it quickly. Thanks for your help in keeping things running smoothly!

Recording via amp outputs

DougK

Well-known member
A quick question... When using the REC/Tape-Out connection on an amp to a recording device does the volume control dial on the amp play any part in the ouput volume, or is it by-passed? I tried some experimental recording at the weekend and was surprised that the amp went into protection mode when I wound up the amp volume with speakers disabled and no headphones connected. Guess I've answered my own question but still thought I'd throw it out there for advice/opinions, as I thought that rec-out was at line level.
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
The level at the Tape Out is fixed and isn't linked to the volume control. It would be a bit useless otherwise, you would only be able to get a decent record level by deafening your neighbours.
 

Al ears

Moderator
MajorFubar said:
The level at the Tape Out is fixed and isn't linked to the volume control. It would be a bit useless otherwise, you would only be able to get a decent record level by deafening your neighbours.
Quite correct, perhaps this is why he 'disabled' his speakers whatever is meant by that.
 

DougK

Well-known member
Many thanks Major *good* It may have sounded like a silly question but I needed a second opinion. I'm trying to rip my small, but expensive, LP collection and am experiencing some poor recording issues so I'm experimenting at the moment. I think it's all going come down to the sub-standard soundcard in my pc that is causing it.
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
No disrespect but f you're quite inexperienced there could be other issues caused by the way you've rigged things up, although I've never owned a PC which had anything but a lousy line input, if they had one at all, so your diagnosis could still be right. Speaking of which, many PCs these days don't even have a line input...how are you rigging it all up?
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
771
330
5,270
DougK said:
Many thanks Major *good* It may have sounded like a silly question but I needed a second opinion. I'm trying to rip my small, but expensive, LP collection and am experiencing some poor recording issues so I'm experimenting at the moment. I think it's all going come down to the sub-standard soundcard in my pc that is causing it.
What soundcard are you using? Is it meant for playback or recording? Most soundcard manufacturers focus on DACs which affects playback for ripping vinyl you need a decent ADC chip.

Have you considered something dedicated to do just that like a Rega Fono Mini A2D?
 

DougK

Well-known member
Thanks insider.... appreciate and understand your comments. I have no idea what my soundcard is *biggrin* The Rega A2D would probably suffice but I am very content with the current phono-stage in my amp. About a year ago I tried a £225 Project external phono stage and it was nowhere near as good as the one in my Marantz.
 

DougK

Well-known member
No disrespect taken Major, always open to advice, that's why I'm here *biggrin*

Recording set-up as follows: Turntable to amp phono-stage > tape-out on amp to line-in on pc > audacity as recording software. PC doesn't have a dedicated soundcard, it's an integrated variety. PC is used as a music hub as it has a dedicated digital coax-out connected to an NA7004 network player for playback duities.

I have been investigating the possibility of inserting a decent ADC in the line between tape-out and the pc in the hope that this will by-pass the soundcard on the pc. I am open to any suggestions....

I have been looking at a Korg DS-DAC-10R but this a lot of cash for 50 albums! A cheaper alternative is the Behringer UCA222, but as with everything in this game I guess the more you invest the better the results will be.
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
Sounds like you've got it right but something in the food chain is letting you down. To simplify the process to its bare minimum without breaking the bank how about buying a Behringer U-Phono? You can plug the turntable straight into that. Fair enough it won't be the greatest sounding phono stage ever invented, but even if you continue to use the phono stage in your amp, potentially the compromise is always likely to be whichever audio interface you use to connect your amp to your computer, unless you spend big money.
 

Gray

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2015
1,447
910
12,070
Hurry up with buying that Korg Doug, I'm still waiting to borrow it. Doesn't get any less desirable does it?

The Behringer UCA222 you mention or the U-Phono that Major pointed out may be adequate alternatives, but check out another model of theirs, the UMC202HD. It would convert two line inputs to 24 / 192 and all for a reasonable price.

I think (but you'd need to be sure) that the two inputs can be routed SEPARATELY to stereo digital output (by using rec. software setup?)

It's primarilly intended use is for mic. (hence the 'Midas' preamps) and instrument mixing to digital output. Which means that although the two channels are separate, the crosstalk between them could be an issue (as the channels are intended to be mixed, crosstalk wouldn't have been a concern for the designer) And a practical problem is the individual gain controls (though not if accurately set and left).

True, the cheaper Behringer models are more suited to the purpose. See what you think.
 

DougK

Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
Sounds like you've got it right but something in the food chain is letting you down. To simplify the process to its bare minimum without breaking the bank how about buying a Behringer U-Phono? You can plug the turntable straight into that. Fair enough it won't be the greatest sounding phono stage ever invented, but even if you continue to use the phono stage in your amp, potentially the compromise is always likely to be whichever audio interface you use to connect your amp to your computer, unless you spend big money.
Thank you Major, you're a godsend sir. That Behringer looks like a good place to start and it's cheap so what the hell I've ordered one. Won't have lost much if it doesn't perform any better than my current set-up and it will maybe give me a better indication of where my problem lies. Cheers again Major *good*
 

DougK

Well-known member
Korg... I'll give you the same response you gave me in the other thread: Send me a non-refundable deposit of £500 and you can borrow it for as long as you like... after I've tested it first... just to make sure it works of course *biggrin*

In all honesty that Korg really does look the business. I downloaded the software for it over the weekend and I must say that I much prefer the Audacity interface to the Korg software interface.

In reality the Korg is overkill for me as 16/44.1 is sufficient for my needs but, dependent on the outcome of the Behringer results, in the new year I may give my friendly Japanese supplier a nudge for a price.

Cheers for your pointer towards the other Behringer model but I can only see XLR inputs, no mention of RCA except for output, so that's a no go for me. At least we've had more luck posting in this section than we had in the DAC section... we were talking to ourselves over there! The Major is an ace guy.
 

Gray

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2015
1,447
910
12,070
For the record that other Behringer has combination inputs, each one can accept an XLR or quater inch jack plug (then RCA to jack adapter could be used for line input) but the unit is designed more for musicians. If they can do that in 24/192, then there's nothing to stop them doing a dedicated phono version - there should be enough demand.

In practice 16/44.1 (48kHz as it actually is?) should be more than good enough.

Let us know how you get on with it Doug.

Whatever I end up buying I'll only be doing the vinyl once (as the CDs were enough trouble)
 

DougK

Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
Yep would be great to hear if it works out for you.
Will do Major, and thank you again sir.

I have just seen your comment about me on another thread regarding my initial question. I could just ignore it but I think I need to clarify why I initially posed the question:

The last time I did any recording was to cassette-tape back in the early 80's. My cheap kit at that time had a variable source ouput level adjusted via the means of a slider and led indicators on the fascia for setting optimum recording levels. Fast forward through the 90's and 00's with no requirement for tape, (I embraced CD completely both at home and in the car), or a decent hi-fi system, and I find myself back into "resonable" hi-fi in 2012. By 2014 I venture back into the black stuff and by 2016 I'm looking into recording, but experiencing poor performance with the kit I currently have at my disposal; so clutching at straws I go in search of answers.

I hope this in some small way answers why I posted my initial moronic question...
 

DougK

Well-known member
Gray said:
Let us know how you get on with it Doug.

Whatever I end up buying I'll only be doing the vinyl once (as the CDs were enough trouble)
Will do Gray. My intention was to only rip my vinyl once too but it has now become a crusade to get it right as the sound of vinyl gives me more pleasure than CD. It's where to draw the line regarding expenditure on kit that's difficult... new PC, Korg, phono-stage upgrade, etc., the list could be endless.

Agreed about CD's, it can be time consuming, I've got about 50 more to go but the problem is I keep buying more! I'm also very selective regarding album art so this aspect is not automated for me. At least we don't have to rip in real time; this is the bummer where vinyl is concerned...
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
DougK said:
I have just seen your comment about me on another thread regarding my initial question. I could just ignore it but I think I need to clarify why I initially posed the question:
No need to explain, and sorry you appear to have taken it critically. It wasn't really intended that way. The problem with written words is there's no obvious way of indicating they are intended to be lighthearted.

DougK said:
The last time I did any recording was to cassette-tape back in the early 80's. My cheap kit at that time had a variable source ouput level adjusted via the means of a slider and led indicators on the fascia for setting optimum recording levels.
You mean the cassette recorder had a record level control with LED peak meters? This is normal.
 

paulkebab

New member
Dec 26, 2014
66
0
0
I ripped my vinyl by plugging the phono stage straight into the PC, headphones for monitoring and Roxio software. It was a pretty decent soundcard in the PC which did the job.
 

DougK

Well-known member
paulkebab said:
I ripped my vinyl by plugging the phono stage straight into the PC, headphones for monitoring and Roxio software. It was a pretty decent soundcard in the PC which did the job.
Make, model and serial number of the aforementioned PC and soundcard would be good *biggrin*
 

DougK

Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
No need to explain, and sorry you appear to have taken it critically. It wasn't really intended that way. The problem with written words is there's no obvious way of indicating they are intended to be lighthearted.

You mean the cassette recorder had a record level control with LED peak meters? This is normal.
I did need to explain. I re-read my opening post and it was not as I sensible as I would have liked... it was written by the side of my brain that has moronic tendencies *biggrin*

Level control and LED peak meters may be normal for you but I haven't had a cassette deck with these on since the early 80's *scratch_one-s_head*

Anyway, the Behringer you so kindly pointed to should arrive tomorrow so I should, hopefully, be able to get some ripping done between Christmas and the New Year.

I wish you a good Christmas Major. This is also extended to all other members here.
 

paulkebab

New member
Dec 26, 2014
66
0
0
my own brewed KebabMondo circa 2000 so probably an AMD quad core overclocked. Sound card was definitely a Creative Sound Blaster Platinum summat or other. All unavailable now so hope that helped but probably didnt :D
 

DougK

Well-known member
Okay, initial results using the Behringer:

Difference between the Behringer and PC soundcard is too close to call, however, the Behringer has introduced a very low level hum towards the end of each side of an LP. So in this instance the internal soundcard is the more favourable option of the two. Rips sound great through headphones but they do not upscale well to speakers; but I have now identified what is missing... depth. The reproduction is fairly flat, there are no 3D aspect cues that position the vocalist in front of the percussion on tracks I know really well.

The Behringer was a worthwhile purchase and may come in useful. Next move, not sure, as the next step will be a larger investment than I was anticipating... Korg
 

pauln

New member
Feb 26, 2008
137
0
0
DougK said:
Okay, initial results using the Behringer:

Difference between the Behringer and PC soundcard is too close to call, however, the Behringer has introduced a very low level hum towards the end of each side of an LP. So in this instance the internal soundcard is the more favourable option of the two. Rips sound great through headphones but they do not upscale well to speakers; but I have now identified what is missing... depth. The reproduction is fairly flat, there are no 3D aspect cues that position the vocalist in front of the percussion on tracks I know really well.

The Behringer was a worthwhile purchase and may come in useful. Next move, not sure, as the next step will be a larger investment than I was anticipating... Korg
You could pick up something like an Emu 0404 off ebay for £60 or so - in it's time it was a well regarded piece of kit. It comes as an internal PCi card or (allegedly better) external USB device. Emu now owned by Creative but at the time they made these they were an independent pro audio company. Good review here:

www.soundonsound.com/reviews/emu-0404

If you wanted to get true pro quality, the Benchmark ADC1 would be a good bet but it's well over £1000.
 

paulkebab

New member
Dec 26, 2014
66
0
0
as to why you're getting hum towards the end of a record. I'd enquire into the cost of having someone transcribe your vinyl as £50 here and £50 there can soon get out of hand. Unless you're having fun in which case crack on :)
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts