Receiver Help Please :)

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Hi there,

I am in the process of upgrading the sound in our home! Currently I've have a Pannasonic BTT350 all in one bluray home cinema system.

To give you an idea of my other sound and expecatations...

In my "music room" I have a Yamaha AS500 amp to 2 x Dali Lektor 6 Speakers. (I really like the sound and these speakers really got me into good quality audio)

I would like to get a lovely sound that's great for cinema but also great for music (Using airplay through APPLE TV to multiroom throughout the house....) (Doesn't need built in airplay). I will probably listen to just as much music as I will cinema.

I have bought from ebay 4 x Monitor Audio R90 speakers, 1x R180 speaker for center and 1 RSW-12 Subwoofer. Got them all for £400 which I thought was a good/fair deal?

Now I just need to match an amp to them... I will probably be buying used from ebay as I like a bargain and want something high quality that was worth way more... I have been looking at - Onkyo TX-NR905 & the Pioneer SC-LX81 / Pioneer LX75.

My budget is up to about £400 but happy to pay a lot less if I can (second hand)...

Can anyone make any suggestions that I haven't thought of or let me kwow about my choices? My main focus is audio not the video quality. I am not really concerned re 4k at this point. Just want great sound with HDMI in.

Also I am hoping it will be a massive setup sound wise from my current home cinema setup? Is that correct?

 

[grdunn123]

With your speakers I'd be looking at something from Yamaha too, possibly their recent RX-A830 which could be had for peanuts fairly recently or maybe the Sony 1050? You might also pick up a secondhand Pioneer model as you've mentioned although personally i'd be a little cautious about buying a 5 year old model.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

thanks for your comment. why would it make you cautious? thanks

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

I've seen the Onkyo TX NR828 for £426 and the Yamaha RX A830 for £360 from a reputable shop. I guess I can add these into the mix?

 

[grdunn123]

I would only be cautious as it may go 'pop' suddenly and you're left with an expensive brick - you'll get no kind of warranty when buying secondhand privately.

The Yamaha would be my first choice.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

I would only be cautious as it may go 'pop' suddenly and you're left with an expensive brick - you'll get no kind of warranty when buying secondhand privately.

The Yamaha would be my first choice.

Thank you very much for your input. I've bought a lot of second hand equipment and things tend to have gone quite well. BUT I read around the internet of a lot of people having hdmi boards go etc and ebay is full of for parts av receivers...

Between the Onkyo TXNR828 and Yam RXA830 you would go with the Yam?

The onkyo has original price of 799 so seems like a great deal at 360

 

[grdunn123]

Of the 2, I would choose the Yamaha - difficult to audition second hand amps for obvious reasons but the Yamaha 'sound' is really well matched with MA speakers.

 

[Leeps]

Can I make an observation about your system choices so far?

I notice you've got Radius R90's for the front left and rights. This creates an issue you need to bear in mind, particularly as you've made it clear that you want the system to be capable with music.

The Radius range are very capable speakers, but if you use the front left and right R90's alone, they won't be up to the task for stereo music duties. So you have a few ways around this and I'm basing my response around the features available on my own AV receiver.

1. If you really must use the R90's for stereo sources, you'll definitely want the subwoofer to be engaged. My AV receiver does this with the 'Extended Stereo' setting, which uses all available channels at once, including the rear speakers. This can sound good, especially with cinematic soundtracks, but for vocal music, you'll need to be able to alter the fader towards the front to make it sound natural. This may not be as straightforward as it sounds with some AVR's. And if using it for TV stereo, it just sounds wrong to have the sound all around you. You're looking at people on your TV screen in front of you and that's where the voices need to come from.

2. The fact is the R90's have a fairly big hole in the midrange between them and the subwoofer. I've got around this by using the larger R270HD floorstanders for the front left and right channels which offer a wide enough dynamic range to be used on their ownsome, but that may take the budget to places you don't want to go, so...

3. You could always use the R90's for 5.1 duties only and simply purchase a separate not-necessarily-sound-matching pair of speakers and wire them to your AV receiver's zone 2 outputs. I did this in the past and it worked well. I used my old Ruark Epilogue II's for stereo which were escellent speakers. It might depend if your home situation permits this, but you could possibly wall-mount the R90/R180/R90 front three, then place the larger standmount or floor-standing speakers on the floor. If funds are tight now, you could always keep this in mind for the future.

As someone who's experimented with different configurations of the Radius package, it was really noticeable when I compared the R90's and R270's for the fronts, which is to be expected really. The R90's just leave a fairly big hole in the all-important midrange, sub or no sub. I hope this gives you something constructive to think about.

As for AVR's I personally love the dynamic and rapid sound of the Pioneer/Radius combo, but some on this forum find this a little too hard-edged and would tend to recommend th Yamaha AVR's instead, so take your personal preferences into account here. FWIW I've seen some amazing deals on the successor to my AVR the Pioneer SC-2023 from Richer Sounds at around the £400 mark, which is astonishing value for money.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Thanks for the detailed feedback and for the tips re getting my most from the radius.

To to be honest I quite like the idea of having 5.1 for my music. Can this be done split into rear left, rear right, and sub? With a little from the center too?

Sadly in my current tv room I don't have space for any floor standees. That's why I went with the MA's. They seemed to have good reviews. I was also looking at the kef 3006 but this deal seemed quite good because the rsw12 sub seems to fetch £300 used on ebay.

I considered swapping out the front left and rights r90's for r180s but would I need to put these on the wall or will they freestand on my large tv unit? Vertical?

I guess new for the av unit seems to be the suggested route and the yamaha over the onkyo?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Also - it's probably sacrilege around here but I don't mind tv coming out of the rears as well...

 

[grdunn123]

I think as a package, the MA speakers you have will work well - if you don't have room for floorstanders then I'm assuming you have a small to medium sized room. You have a good sub which if positoned correctly and if the receiver is properly set up, then I don't think you'll have a 'hole' in the middle if listening to music.

You can have music in 5.1 although it doesn't often sound very good - you can however have your 2 front MA90s as a stereo pair with your sub in the background giving you the extra presence that you might appreciate.

 

[Leeps]

I think as a package, the MA speakers you have will work well - if you don't have room for floorstanders then I'm assuming you have a small to medium sized room. You have a good sub which if positoned correctly and if the receiver is properly set up, then I don't think you'll have a 'hole' in the middle if listening to music.

Just to be a bit more specific, the 'hole' I was referring to was in the frequency range (especially the midrange) and not in the surround soundstage. I can only report what I actually heard when comparing both speakers in the same room. I don't know if grdunn's comments are based on actually hearing both Radius setups.

You can have music in 5.1 although it doesn't often sound very good - you can however have your 2 front MA90s as a stereo pair with your sub in the background [/b]giving you the extra presence that you might appreciate.

[/quote]

Certainly on my AVR, there's not an option to do this setting on the fly. I can invoke the Extended Stereo setting which activates ALL channels. Yes I could change the set-up to a 2.1 only system on speaker set-up, but this would affect all inputs, including Bluray / SACD which I wouldn't want.

All I'm saying is, based on back to back tests with these speakers, the R90HD's with subwoofer do miss much of the midrange. It's particularly noticeable with female voices, which is probably the strongest aspect of the larger R270HD's.

 

[Leeps]

But I hope you can figure out who's who!

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Thanks for your help!

What's wrong with the 5.1 music? Can it be set to left and right and ignore the center speaker usually?

Any other amp suggestions or should I just go with the yamaha? Any particular reason to ignore the onkyo?

 

[grdunn123]

Music is usually best in stereo, sending it through a 5.1 system usually results in it sounding horrible (centre speaker is used for dialogue in 5.1). No reason why your MA speakers will sound in any way lacking with a good receiver correctly set up in a reasonably small room.

 

[Leeps]

5.1 music can sound pretty good with some genres and to my taste. But much depends on the location of your rear speakers in relation to your listening position and your personal taste. It's not a purists option - some people would hate it.

it's common due to the shape of typical rooms to be sat closer to your rear speakers than the fronts. Also there's something intuitively wrong about the major part of lead vocals coming from behind you. For these reasons, whenever using Extended Stereo (or Pioneer's name for their 2.0 to 5.1 option), I've altered the fader about half way towards the fronts. There's nothing wrong in this instance using the centre speaker: it correctly performs its work in generating the surround sound stage. The result to my ears, with certain music types, sounds terrific.

The effect using the 5.1 setting but fading in favour of the front speakers is to sound more natural and make the soundstage open up massively. It's great for jazz or live music as it really gives the impression of a live gig. But I still use a straight stereo setting for other genres: often classical or electronica, and it's a must for listening to the TV. Imagine watching a documentary looking at the presenter facing the camera looking at you on screen, but with his voice coming equally from behind you. It's just wrong: the clashing information your eyes and ears are sending to your brain just messes with your head. The sub's involvement doesn't matter so much because bass is omni-directional, but the treble from your R90's IS very directional.

it might be worth seeing if grdunn's suggestion of switching from a 2.1 to 5.1 setting on the fly (or being able to set these preferences according to the specific input being used: (i.e TV in 2.1; CD in 5.1)) is possible with any receiver you're looking at as this could be a useful feature for your requirements. It's not an option on my Pioneer at least - I checked this yesterday. As for Onkyo I've personally steered clear of them due to reports of overheating and unreliability, but I know of at least one regular poster on this forum who swears by his: although his is the mid to upper end of their range.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Missed out on an A830 today on ebay for £230! GUTTED

Anyway - I've seen a Yamaha RX-V577 for £320 with 3 year warranty... How would this compare to the a830?[/b]

 

[grdunn123]

Not as good - RX-A830 is part of Yamaha's Aventage 'elite' range ans should be significantly better.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Thanks. Cannot believe I delayed buying that ebay one this morning! Oh well the search continues!

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Look for any receiver from the aventage range (RX-A) of the last 2 or 3 years.

So 810/1010/2010/3010 and 820/1020/2020/3020 would be the ones to look for, though some of the higher end ones will probably be over your budget.

The Yamahas are good for music, and for what it's worth, I play my music in multi-stereo, with just the fronts and rears engaged, no sub or centre. You could do this, and add the sub if you feel you're speakers lack the depth of bass you want.

I'm not sure if the 810-3010 have the same features as my 2020, but if they do, you can set save all the settings you want for each input, so you don't have to keep changing them when you move from tv to music.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Thanks very much for all the input Folks

I actually found a great deal on a Pioneer LX83 so I thought I'd try it and if It wasn't right I could sell it on again. It has all the features I could need for now just not 4K (which doesn't bother me yet anyway) but I have apple tv for my airplay and everything else..

It comes tomorrow - will let you know how I get on!

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Got it all hooked up and it sounds absolutely great!

Love the options for using surround sound with music! There are so many. I found one that keeps all the vocals up front and then surrounds you with different parts of the music too.

Don't know how it separates it all from a stereo source but its very well done

 

[Leeps]

Good news...glad you're pleased with the results. Sounds like you did the right thing with the receiver. A slightly older one with high quality electronics ought to product a better sound than a newer but lower specified machine.

And whatever our opinions might be, it's the paying customer's opinion that matters most.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_552670310]

Yes I'm really happy with the receiver. It doesn't have all the mod cons (mainly 4k and the network function isn't functioning which is a common fault on these I believe) but I now know what a good surround receiver sounds like and I will definitely be purchasing from the top of the line ranges in future. (But used and a little depreciated or on some ex display/end of line offers)

It Sounds absolutely amazing. I can definitely see why they cost so much originally.

I don't know how the amp splits music up into 5.1 for different instruments and parts of songs to the rears from plain stereo but it's absolutely amazing. Worth every penny I spent.

I'm using the Neo 6 music option