Question: Surround Amplifier for HiFi use

[Dennis Michos]

Hi,
I am planning to change my old HiFi system (Cyrus One, Mission 761, Marantz CD6002) to a Home Cinema system.
I plan to buy the very well received Onkyo TX-SR606 and of course a good Blue Ray player and some surround speakers.
My question is the following. The Onkyo receiver seems to be excellent for Home Cinema but can I use it as a true HiFi amplifier?
Having a very big collection of Film Music CDs, music is still very mportant to me
Ideally shall someone have a Surround receiver (for the Home Cinema) and a HiFi amplifier (for Audio only) or Surround receivers can offer first rate Audio sound?
Will the Onkyo sound at least as a Marantz PM6002 (just an example) or I have to go for a more expensive HiFi amplifier (Cyrus 8vs2) to hear the difference?
Besides, is there any option on the multichannel amplifiers to swap to stereo mode and use only the 2 front speakers for listening only to music?
In case I have to opt for both a Surround and HiFi amplifiers can I share the 2 front speakers? I mean to use them with my audio HiFi amplifier when I listen to CDs but to use them also as part of the surround Home Cinema system when I watch movies
Last question. Do you think my old Mission 761 speakers could be ok as rear speakers for a Home Cinema system?

Many Thanks and Kind Regards,
Dennis

 

[John Duncan]

To my mind, any multi-channel amp will be a compromise with music, and you would be better off with a dedicated stereo amp, adding surround by other means. Obviously this incurs additional cost and space, so it depends on your priorities.

If, however, you do go down the route of two separate amps, you would need a receiver with preout sockets in order to use the stereo amp for music only - the 606 does not have them.

 

[Lost Angeles]

I bet your Cyrus one would be musically better than an Onkyo 606

 

[Anonymous]

I to would be interested in the answer to the dual amps to a single set of speakers question?

If your surround sound amp had pre outs (such as the Onkyo 875) would you need two sets of speakers?

 

[professorhat]

No, you hook the front speakers to the stereo amp's speaker terminals, the centre, rears and sub to the AV amps relevant speaker terminals for those speakers, then connect the stereo amp to the AV amp's pre-outs. What you do then I can't remember (as haven't done it, just read about a number of times in these forums!). But you only have one set of front speakers.

 

[Dennis Michos]

Thank you for your answers. I also think that my old Cyrus One will sound better than the 606 as regards pure HiFi Audio.
I can live with the idea of having two amplifiers (one for Audio and one for Home Cinema) but I definitely have to share the 2 front speakers. The solution with the preout is not very clear to me. Does this mean that the signal has to go through the surround amplifier even in case of Audio only? Both amplifiers have to be switched on when I want to listen to a CD? If the signal goes through the surround amplifier doesn't this compromise (even slightly) the quality of the sound?

 

[Messiah]

Hi Dennis,

Basically anything you want in quality stereo (like a CD player) you would connect directly to the Cyrus amp. The Cyrus amp is connected to the main front speakers. So, when playing a CD you would be using the CD player, Amp and Speakers. The receiver would not be in use.

Now, the receiver would be in use for surround. For surround duties you would connect your source (DVD, BD) directly to the receiver. The receiver outputs the sound for the front speakers to the main stereo amp. (Using the Pre Out sockets as explained earlier - When doing this you will need to ensure the amp is set to the input these are connected to)So when watching in surround you have the source running, the receiver running powering the centre and surrounds and the main amp powering the Fronts.

Hope this helps.

Ps, as JD said though, the 606 does not have Pre-Outs. You will need to bear this in mind....

 

[Anonymous]

Yup, professorhat is correct. Or at least that's what I did way back with a HarmonKardon surround sound amp which did the AV side, and a Linn Magik I with the hi-fi side.

To repeat: take a line level signal out of the pre-out of the AV amp (the HK in my case) and feed it into one of your line level inputs in your hifi amp (the Linn), and the hifi amp is connected to your main speakers. The other speakers are all connected to the AV amp (rear, centre and sub outputs). Yes this means that both amps have to be powered on at the same time

and you have to work out a balance between the two amps. But you quickly learn the settings you like on both amps. If your AV amp doesn't have a pre-out you're stuffed. I did it because I'd spent a lot of money on the Linn and figured it made a better sound than the HK, but mostly because I couldn't afford any more speakers!

It's not advised to shove two sets of speaker cable from two different amps into one speaker I believe.

Alcina

 

[Anonymous]

Your question was the important one I asked myself a few months ago. I have in the past run a Cyrus 6/PSX followed on by an Audiolab 8000p/Meridian set up.
After auditioning the Onkyo 875 with a Meridian CD source / pre amp I was delighted and relieved to find the musicality superb. I have bi amped the front speakers and my Audiolab is now redundent in the dining room. I think the 875 is a significant step up in the range which is worth making if music is so important to you.

 

[Dennis Michos]

Thank you all guys. You have opened some new horizons to me

Does this mean that the 875 is more 'musical' than the 606 so I don't have to buy a ?400 HiFi Amplifier dedicated to CDs only (or still use my Cyrus One)?
The CD player I have is not high end (Marantz CD6002) so do you think will sound better with the 875 than with my Cyrus?
Bi amped speakers.....another dark subject to me......Can all speakers be bi-amped? If I understood well I need to bi-amp my front speakers in case I opt for one amplifier (for both AV and HiFi) otherwise if I still want to have a separate HiFi amply I need to have an AV amplifier with preout (in order to share the front speakers for both Home Cinema and HiFi).
Is that correct?

 

[Anonymous]

Take it from me, The '875' is a LOT better at playing a tune than the '606'. I don't want to put you off the 606 but forget it, lol.

 

[Anonymous]

Think the 875 is a bargain at £1000. The build quality is outstanding for the money.
Oh and its heavy, very heavy!

 

[Lost Angeles]

Bi amped speakers.....another dark subject to me......Can all speakers be bi-amped? If I understood well I need to bi-amp my front speakers in case I opt for one amplifier (for both AV and HiFi) otherwise if I still want to have a separate HiFi amply I need to have an AV amplifier with preout (in order to share the front speakers for both Home Cinema and HiFi).
Is that correct?

If you buy an 875 you can bi-amp the front speakers or just connect up as normal

If you download the Onk 875 manual and go to page 23 it tells you how to bi-amp

They call it bridging. You can only do it with speakers that can be bi-wired, I would have copied it here but that might breach copyright

If you want to use your existing amp for music then you will need an Av receiver with pre-outs and like John said the 606 does not have them but the 705/805 and 875 do.