Quad kit bright, warm or neutral?

[FennerMachine]

Just taking my 751BD, using speakers they make & suggest. If the demo goes well I might try more options. I'm back to using the Quad 21L2 with all Quad kit, seem to work well together. Castle's work better with 751BD.

 

[FennerMachine]

I think that the EL34 and KT88 are the same amp with different tubes but the 6AS7 is a pure triode amp.

 

[CJSF]

I think that the EL34 and KT88 are the same amp with different tubes but the 6AS7 is a pure triode amp.

Sounds about right, 34 and 88 have a switch for Triode or Ultralinear, I run mine in triode, only 20 watts but much better than the 40 watts of ul, IMHO.

Does not seem to give any more volume in ul either???

CJSF

 

[davedotco]

I think that the EL34 and KT88 are the same amp with different tubes but the 6AS7 is a pure triode amp.

Sounds about right, 34 and 88 have a switch for Triode or Ultralinear, I run mine in triode, only 20 watts but much better than the 40 watts of ul, IMHO.

Does not seem to give any more volume in ul either???

CJSF

My own EL34 based amp is switchable too, maybe just a tiny sense of 'ease' in pure triode but no way can I tell which is which if I get Mrs DDC to do the honours. The switch is on the rear panel so I can not see it's position, tiny, tiny differences if anything.

My speakers are not that sensitive so I tend to run ultralinear, less 'strain' on the valves or so I am told.

Valves are Golden Dragon, normally a bit overpriced but they came with the amp.

 

[FennerMachine]

Just checked the specs of the 6AS7, 33wpc pure triode! Cheaper than the other 2 amps as well. Obviously there will be other things that affect the sound.

 

[Macspur]

Hi FM

Given what you are trying to achieve, and the budget you have available, I would be looking at amps from Sugden, Unison Research Unico Series, Pathos, Audio Analogue and Electrocompaniet.

Also,you should definitely hear some Valve amps from the likes of Icon Audio, Pure Sound (A30) and Unison Research.

IMO. You should be trying something like a Sugden A21 with some Harbeths or Proacs.

I have heard quite a lot of Focals (on various amps), from their expensive Utopia range, to their new Arias. For my taste, I find them too forward, unless paired with a very smooth amp......and even then, there are others I prefer. My local dealer has found them difficult to sell, and finds Tannoy suits a greater variety of tastes.

IMO. The speakers you have been looking at, are certainly in the right ballpark, and as others have suggested, it may take the right amp to get you the sound you're looking for. I would also suggest Sonus Faber as a must listen.

Sugden plus ProAc would definitely tick FM's boxes with the SQ he's after or Electro plus PMC.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[CJSF]

I think that the EL34 and KT88 are the same amp with different tubes but the 6AS7 is a pure triode amp.

Sounds about right, 34 and 88 have a switch for Triode or Ultralinear, I run mine in triode, only 20 watts but much better than the 40 watts of ul, IMHO.

Does not seem to give any more volume in ul either???

CJSF

My own EL34 based amp is switchable too, maybe just a tiny sense of 'ease' in pure triode but no way can I tell which is which if I get Mrs DDC to do the honours. The switch is on the rear panel so I can not see it's position, tiny, tiny differences if anything.

My speakers are not that sensitive so I tend to run ultralinear, less 'strain' on the valves or so I am told.

Valves are Golden Dragon, normally a bit overpriced but they came with the amp.

I did a test only the other day, Monday I think, ultralinear v triode, I thought the changes were subtle . . . so I left the UL on for a couple of hours, the sound became wearing, almost uninteresting . . . :? Whats going on, so I switched back, wonderfully warm, engaging sound was the reward, more extension in the base too, simply 'more' is the only way I can describe the triode presentation of my KT88's.

CJSF

 

[davedotco]

I think that the EL34 and KT88 are the same amp with different tubes but the 6AS7 is a pure triode amp.

Sounds about right, 34 and 88 have a switch for Triode or Ultralinear, I run mine in triode, only 20 watts but much better than the 40 watts of ul, IMHO.

Does not seem to give any more volume in ul either???

CJSF

My own EL34 based amp is switchable too, maybe just a tiny sense of 'ease' in pure triode but no way can I tell which is which if I get Mrs DDC to do the honours. The switch is on the rear panel so I can not see it's position, tiny, tiny differences if anything.

My speakers are not that sensitive so I tend to run ultralinear, less 'strain' on the valves or so I am told.

Valves are Golden Dragon, normally a bit overpriced but they came with the amp.

I did a test only the other day, Monday I think, ultralinear v triode, I thought the changes were subtle . . . so I left the UL on for a couple of hours, the sound became wearing, almost uninteresting . . . :? Whats going on, so I switched back, wonderfully warm, engaging sound was the reward, more extension in the base too, simply 'more' is the only way I can describe the triode presentation of my KT88's. CJSF

Pretty much what I thought, though in my case the sense of unease was very slight, certainly not 'wearing' or 'uninteresting'.

Different amps, different system. My ribbon hybrid speakers are not particularly sensitive, but then they are built very much with the amplifier in mind, seems to be a fine match.

 

[RLCCM]

Am dying to hear how your demo of the Icon Audio amps went. I had a demo myself this weekend and am curious to compare notes.

I was quite impressed generally, the build seems good, plenty of power, and definitely noticeable punch and agility over the ST25 I tried - really a large improvement in sheer energy. It was hard for me to guage against many other things, because what else I have tried were in very different rooms and on different speakers, but I thought the ST40 (KT88 ) had plenty of control of the bass, with a very clean and agile sound. It perhaps wasn't quite as lucious as I have heard elsewhere but then again, that is likely to be due to the small, heavily cluttered and accoustically flat/dampened room that I was in, rather than the more open space I've had before with previous tests on different amps. For notes, I tried them on spendor 7/1's which I quite liked but have a feeling its slightly too laid back a speaker, or perhaps too restrained for me.

I think i will most likely buy it, myself. It seems a safe bet.

 

[FennerMachine]

Going for the demo on Wednesday.

I'll report back.

 

[FennerMachine]

Went to Icon Audio today. Took my 751BD and a few CD's.

First I tried a few speakers, settled on the MFV3 Super for the demo.

Then I demoed some amps: Stereo 40 KT88, Stereo 40 6AS7

KT88 sounded good with everything I threw at it. Rock, pop, classical, electronic.

I ran the KT88 in triode mode, didn't seem to need any extra power from ultra linear mode. The presentation supposedly changes a bit with ultra linear mode but I didn't test this properly. Imaging was good, music sounded realistic, vocals were good.

Next up was the 6AS7. Tighter/firmer sound through the whole frequency range. Bass was tighter, notes stopped and started more precisely, but it lost something in the process! It did not sound as 'nice' as the KT88.

I was there for about 3 hours but after just over 2 hours of demoing my brain tends to shut down and everything sounds similar so I've decided to go back another day to demo the Stereo 60 and compare to the Stereo 40 KT88.

The KT88 with the MFV3 Super go well together but the KT88 might not work well with my Quad 21L2's. The Stereo 60 would be more than powerful enough for my Quad 21L2's. If they work well together then I could just get the Stereo 60 and only have to find room for 1 set of speakers.

So £1700 Stereo 40 KT 88 with MFV3 Super £1700 – total £3400

or Stereo 60 £2400 with my Quad21L2's.

Definitely need to go back but I think I may have found what I'm after.

Wondering if I should still bother going to demo Focal speakers next week or cancel.

 

[CnoEvil]

Can you bring the Quads to your next demo?

 

[FennerMachine]

Do you mean the Quad speakers? I really don't want to move them unless I have to due to it being hassle transporting them safely. I suppose I'll just have to man up and take them!

Are you suggesting I demo them with both amps? I suppose they might not work well with valve amps at all or they might perform really well with the stereo 40 KT88 or even the 6AS7.

Or their speakers might work really well with my Quad amps.

 

[CnoEvil]

Do you mean the Quad speakers? I really don't want to move them unless I have to due to it being hassle transporting them safely. I suppose I'll just have to man up and take them!

Are you suggesting I demo them with both amps? I suppose they might not work well with valve amps at all or they might perform really well with the stereo 40 KT88 or even the 6AS7.

Or their speakers might work really well with my Quad amps.

IMO. You need to hear your Quad speakers on the end of any amp that you are considering for them......so they have to go to the amp/s, or vica versa.

 

[FennerMachine]

I suppose as they have all the amps then I really need to take my speakers to them.

I know there is room interaction/acoustics to take into consideration but the Quad 21L2's seem OK in my current room and should work even better in a larger room with more room to breathe. The demo room at Icon Audio is larger then any room I am likely to be in next year when I move. If they work well with any of the amps there then they should work well anywhere in relation to power requirements. I know I should home demo any final choice.

I've also just thought of a way to safely transport them – I will test the idea at the weekend.

 

[CnoEvil]

I suppose as they have all the amps then I really need to take my speakers to them.

I know there is room interaction/acoustics to take into consideration but the Quad 21L2's seem OK in my current room and should work even better in a larger room with more room to breathe. The demo room at Icon Audio is larger then any room I am likely to be in next year when I move. If they work well with any of the amps there then they should work well anywhere in relation to power requirements. I know I should home demo any final choice.

I've also just thought of a way to safely transport them – I will test the idea at the weekend.

.....or buy them, with the right to return, if it doesn't work in situ.

One way to transport them is wrapped in old duvets.

 

[CJSF]

I suppose as they have all the amps then I really need to take my speakers to them.

I know there is room interaction/acoustics to take into consideration but the Quad 21L2's seem OK in my current room and should work even better in a larger room with more room to breathe. The demo room at Icon Audio is larger then any room I am likely to be in next year when I move. If they work well with any of the amps there then they should work well anywhere in relation to power requirements. I know I should home demo any final choice.

I've also just thought of a way to safely transport them – I will test the idea at the weekend.

.....or buy them, with the right to return, if it doesn't work in situ.

One way to transport them is wrapped in old duvets.

My experiance is Icon Audio do not offer a cost free home trial. I was told, buy them, listen keep, or return and pay a 10% restock fee, or was that 20%? :?

. . . so I went to Dave Wren at Radlett Audio, he let me home dem the ST 40 MkIII/KT88, the amp never went back . . . :cheer:

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

Duplicate post, CJSF

 

[RLCCM]

. . . so I went to Dave Wren at Radlett Audio, he let me home dem the ST 40 MkIII/KT88, the amp never went back . . . :cheer:

CJSF

CJSF, whilst you were there, did yuo compare the Icon to a Croft amp? I am very curious indeed how they would compare.

 

[CJSF]

. . . so I went to Dave Wren at Radlett Audio, he let me home dem the ST 40 MkIII/KT88, the amp never went back . . . :cheer:

CJSF

CJSF, whilst you were there, did yuo compare the Icon to a Croft amp? I am very curious indeed how they would compare.

I actual own a basic Croft 25P, which I bought from Dave 12 months before, a natural progression, Croft to full valve Icom. In fact originally I was going to upgrade to the better Croft gear. I had most of Dave's Croft stock at home at one point along with the Icon ST40. So yes, I did a lot of comparison. I found the better Croft kit to be more 'in your face', modern, powerful dynamic sound . . . I prefer a laid back, pipe and slipper presentation of full valve set up. That said, the Icon can really get to grips with dynamics . . . when its on the recording . . . I dont like it thrust down my throat permanently as seems be preferred in this modern age. There is a time to relax and 'drift' when one is listening to music as well as 'sit up and pay attention'! :? The entry level Croft has a balance that I like, it is not quite so 'insistent' all the time, superb value, personal opinion and preference. Icon has the edge over Croft for me, but only because of the music I listen to and my preferred 80's presentation. CJSF

 

[FennerMachine]

CJSF, just out of interest, what speakers do you use?

 

[CJSF]

CJSF, just out of interest, what speakers do you use?

Hi FennerMachine, I use an old pair of PMC LB1, transmission line, studio monitors, not particularly efficient at 87db, early 90's vintage. Stand mounted, using my own stand design, originaly designed for LS35a, but we found they work equaly well with the PMC's. I used to design speaker stands for a living in my previous life.

CJSF

 

[RLCCM]

Thanks CJSF, thats very useful indeed. Sounds like the Icon would be better for me too, considering my equally old fashioned music taste! (1930s-1960s jazz mostly!). Actually its a bit of a relief to hear as i just picked up a stereo 60 for stereo 40 money!

 

[FennerMachine]

The Focal demo was cancelled.

Instead I went to my local store. They have Quad 23L speakers so used those for the demo's. Used the same CD player for the Roksan and Audiolab demo's.

Demoed Roksan KT BT & Caspian. Nice amps but not for me.

Next up was Audiolab 8200CDQ with 8200MB's. Much nicer. Smooth effortless sound. No harshness. Then used with the CDQ CD player – no discernible difference. Still sounded good. This is a nice combo, would likely drive any speaker well.

Then tried Quad CDP with variable output to Stereo power. Didn't have a dedicated pre or other power amps to try. Not as refined as the Audiolab, a bit harsh, but better imaging/sound-stage. Also seemed to have better bass – more with good control. Demoed this combo with Dali Mentor Menuet to see how they would handle other speakers. The Dali's weregood for their size/price.

They are going to try to get Quad mono amps and maybe a pre to demo.

Still think an Icon Audio amp is what I'm after. Got another demo with Icon Audio in January. I'm taking my Quad speakers.

 

[FennerMachine]

The Focal demo was cancelled. Instead I went to my local store. They have Quad 23L speakers so used those for the demo's.

Used the same CD player for the Roksan and Audiolab demo's.

Demoed Roksan KT BT & Caspian. Nice amps but not for me.

Next up was Audiolab 8200CDQ with 8200MB's. Much nicer. Smooth effortless sound. No harshness. Then used with the CDQ CD player – no discernible difference. Still sounded good. This is a nice combo, would likely drive any speaker well.

Then tried Quad CDP with variable output to Stereo power. Didn't have a dedicated pre or other power amps to try. Not as refined as the Audiolab, a bit harsh, but better imaging/sound-stage. Also seemed to have better bass – more with good control. Demoed this combo with Dali Mentor Menuet to see how they would handle other speakers. The Dali's weregood for their size/price.

They are going to try to get Quad mono amps and maybe a pre to demo. Still think an Icon Audio amp is what I'm after. Got another demo with Icon Audio in January. I'm taking my Quad speakers.