Project debut 3 phono SB. built in phono

[Smudge80]

Hi. I'm new to the forum.

So I have a project turntable with phono built in. I'm thinking this is a bit dated now. I recently bought ac/dc stiff upper lip on vinyl and thought I'd do a we sound off between Spotify and lp to hear the difference. To my disappointment Spotify actually sounds better. A lot louder for a start, more punchy but my record player almost sounds strangled, like listening through a wall!!! I have to turn the volume up to almost Three quarters to get the Same volume. I have the turntable plugged into my amp tuner input as it has its own phono stage built in?!!! I think the built in phono on the turntable is letting my system down? Or do I plug it into the phono input?

Love to hear what you guys think cheers

system is...

project debut 3 phono SB.

marantz 6004 amp

Q acoustics 2010 on Q acoustic own stands.

PS3 hooked up through tv- to amp for Spotify. Playing through my iPad on Spotify connect.

Cabless are all quite cheap rubbishy to be honest

TV is terrible!! Lol

 

[peter312]

Hi there

Firstly, whatever you do, please do not plug the turntable into your amp's phono input. You will overload the amp and cause some damage, somewhere.

In my experience and personal view, the turntable you have is a good starter deck, but limited by the cartridge first and the phono stage second. You could try replacing the cartridge with an Ortofon 2m red which will bring a noticeable improvement and will cost around £80. You need to make sure it is set up correctly, though.

Otherwise, you could replace your record player with something from the Project or Rega stable. As a minimum, I would suggest a Project Debut Carbon or a Rega RP1 performance pack. You should be able to recoup some of the cost by selling your record player.

All of the above assumes your existing record layer is set up properly and the stylus isn't worn out.

I'm sure others will have other thoughts but hopefully that is some help.

Kind regards

 

[Smudge80]

Hi. Thanks for reply.

I am considering the rega RP1 turntable as an upgrade. I think it would be better than spending money on a new stylus. How can I tell if my stylus is worn out?

I always wanted to upgrade my speakers to 2020i as well as mine are not the (i) version. Now q acoustic have gone and released the 3020. What to get? Would there be that much difference between mine and the other two? I always feel my system could use a little more weight and punch.

New turntable first though I think.

Regards

Ewan

 

[Al ears]

Hi. Thanks for reply.

I am considering the rega RP1 turntable as an upgrade. I think it would be better than spending money on a new stylus. How can I tell if my stylus is worn out?

I always wanted to upgrade my speakers to 2020i as well as mine are not the (i) version. Now q acoustic have gone and released the 3020. What to get? Would there be that much difference between mine and the other two? I always feel my system could use a little more weight and punch.

New turntable first though I think.

Regards

Ewan

In my opinion the RP1 would be a sideways move and not an upgrade. There is only one way to improve decks of this budget and that is change the source i.e. the cartridge.

 

[MajorFubar]

With regards to loudness, digital sources are often louder than analogue sources because they have an output of 2V peak to peak if not more. The pre-amp in your turntable tops out maybe at 1V on the loudest records. So to get an even meaningful comparison you'd need to peak-match; you've already observed you have to turn the volume up louder. Secondly you can't tell if the record and the Spotify stream are from the same master. In fact almost certainly they won't be, by 2000 albums were mastered for digital release (commonly CDs then) not vinyl, and it will have needed a certain amount of remastering to cut it to a record, for a start half the world's turntables and cartridges couldn't track records cut from masters that have been brickwalled to a flat line.

 

[brownz]

The Debut III SB is a decent deck, it's worth; as others have mentioned, checking the cartridge / stylus / deck setup.
Is the deck setup correctly, do you have the correct tonearm weight set for the cartridge, is the VTA / azimuth / alignment all OK
In your years of ownership have you ever replaced the stylus ?
Is the current stylus clean ? I had a deck back last week which was sounding "compressed and skipped a lot", the before and after shots below tell a story !!

 

[Smudge80]

Hi all. Some interesting comments. I think I should try cleaning my stylus. I have own my deck for two years and I bought it second hand! I have never checked it to be fair. I did however google correct set up when I bought it. That prob needs done again too. I will start here to see if it makes any improvements. Any tips for cleaning?

regarding records.... Would a first press/ original (pre 2000) sound better ( providing its in good condition) than a re-issue (post 2000)

Regards

ewan

 

[brownz]

For cleaning stylus I tend to use two brushes, one with long bristles for cleaning around the cantilever and suspension and a short bristle carbon one for cleaning the actual stylus tip (I actually use an electronic vibrating version but the manual one is a lot cheaper !!)

For keeping records clean (which is something a lot of people neglect) then I can't recomend the Spin Clean record washer highly enough. http://www.spincleanrecordwasher.com/

 

[brownz]

You can also find advice for setting up your deck here : http://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/assets/_managed/cms/files/WebsiteTurntableSupportPDF.pdf

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I just bought a 2m blue(by advice from other forum members) for my ageing project expression (2004)and it has totally given it a new lease of life.the detail,separation and sense of space is on a different level from the original om10 cart the tt came with.yes it's expensive,but another tt would be even more so and I doubt any within your budget would come with a 2m blue stuck on the end of the tonearm.oh and I got some extra volume into the bargain as like you I was having to turn my amp volume to 11 o clock for any meaningful sound,it's still not on par with cd player or dac,but definitely getting better results at 9-10 o clock.and no I haven't had the same cart from 2004 before anyone asks.lol.

 

[stevebrock]

once you go up the TT / Cart food chain, Vinyl easily outperforms CD - I am staggered as vinyl has no right sounding as good as it does

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

£ for £ I would probably have to agree although I'm still at the bottom of the chain,in that respect,my tt with the 2m blue isn't a million miles away from my cd5i mk2 (£955 in it's day).Although I've still to do a side by side comparison,I'm to busy listening to vinyl to care at present.

 

[stevebrock]

Just enjoy it yes

I have no desire to upgrade anything - maybe I could improve my phono stage - but to what I dont know what is going to better what I have

 

[brownz]

In a wholly different league a lot lower down the food chain, but I recently moved from an Pro-Ject Phono Box S USB, to a Lehmann Black Cube SE. I have to admit I'm gutted I didn't do it sooner. I'm still on an old RPM1 Genie with a 2M Red, but the warmth and punch are stunning since the move. I tend to favour modern music and shy away from classical (although am recently warming to Nils Frahm and Ólafur Arnalds), and it's like having your ears syringed !!

 

[MajorFubar]

and it's like having your ears syringed !!

I can imagine. With analogue audio if you substantially upgrade anything up front (ie anything up wind of the amp) you're generally going to hear a big difference. And it's why they used to advise blowing upto half your budget in that direction, because it remains true to this day that no expensive amp or fantastic set of speakers can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. CDs and digital massively leveled the playing field though.