Processor to replace Arcam AV9

[gregvet]

Currently looking at processor options to replace my trusty old Arcam AV9. Performance wise I have been very happy with it this far, except the lack of audio over HDMI is really irritating and has led to a massive tangle of cables behind the system that is doing my head in.

Getting the Linn Majik DS has also confirmed to me that the dac section of the arcam isn't all that either (marked improvement compared to sonos digitally feeding the arcam).

So I want to upgrade the processor. It needs to be good quality both for movies and blu ray sound quality, but also musical as the system is used for a lot of music.

Options that I can see (in ascending price) are:

Audiolab 8200AP

Arcam AV888

Bryston SP3

I had a demo of the bryston, and very nice it was too. If I can achieve most of that at a lower price tho, it would be nice.

How does the audiolab compare to what I have now? If it is comparable that could be a perfect stopgap while I save up for the bryston.

The obvious upgrade is the arcam, how much of an improvement is it over the av9, and are the reliability issues all resolved?

Any comments or suggestions welcome!

 

[CnoEvil]

The AV9 is a hard act to follow, especially if musicality is important. The AV888 is the obvious choice, but even though most of the bugs are ironed out, there may be a few still lurking there. It's very individual as to how much they annoy, as they are livable with (though it shouldn't happen at this price).

Others to consider would be Anthem (better for movies, but imo less musical), Classe and Bryston. If I was going to change from Arcam, it would probably be to Classe.

If I was in your position, I would probably keep the AV9 and do a work around with the BDP, which is a more robust solution than the rather flakey HDMI protocol. The money I'd saved would then be put into a power amp that would do justice to the Kef Refs. >)

oke: Try to get a listen to a P777 with some Refs....maybe David could pull some strings!

 

[gregvet]

The money I'd saved would then be put into a power amp that would do justice to the Kef Refs. >) oke: Try to get a listen to a P777 with some Refs....maybe David could pull some strings!

You don't give up do you

Im still not definitely getting the kefs, I need to hear them amped properly, and I need to hear the fact 8's too. David's not my local dealer, so it's not quite that simple, but I will be going back to see him when he has the bryston power amps to hear with the pmc's and kefs.

I think you may be right tho about being better off saving my money lol

 

[CnoEvil]

You don't give up do you

The thing is, you are slowly (but surely) heading in my direction...Majik at one end and possibly (probably ) Refs at the other; all you need now is the bit in the middle! :rofl:

 

[gregvet]

The thing is, you are slowly (but surely) heading in my direction...Majik at one end and possibly (probably ) Refs at the other; all you need now is the bit in the middle! :rofl:

With the kefs, while they do lots of things better than any other speakers I have heard, I don't feel like the drivers integrate as well as the best two way speakers. Is this something you notice, or would even agree with?

 

[CnoEvil]

With the kefs, while they do lots of things better than any other speakers I have heard, I don't feel like the drivers integrate as well as the best two way speakers. Is this something you notice, or would even agree with?

Hmmm!

Yes, I suppose I sort of do. The very best 2 way will do certain things better than a 3 way, just like Standmounts do certain things better than Floorstanders.

It comes down to which compromise you prefer, and then getting the speaker that handles those compromises best. I like scale, power, imaging, timing, reasonable accuracy mixed with musicality and an ability to handle AV and 2 channel duties.....For me, the Kef Reference range came closest to this (followed by the R Series). There is also the fact that I have a fairly big room to fill.

I tried the 203/2s, but I felt the 205/2s were a big step up re the bass and were worth the extra. I would of course have the 207/2s if I could afford them (or have the space), but imo the the 205s are the sweet spot of the range, giving maybe 85+% of the sound for 60% of the cost.

Report back in when you have heard the Refs with suitable amplification, and we'll see then if this compromise has become so negligible, as to be a non-issue!

 

[Frank Harvey]

After hearing the 8200AP at home, I think processors are a product that you need to try out in your own system in order to appreciate the full benefits. The AP has totally opened up the music reproduction in my system, and that's up against a £2.5k all-singing pre-processor.

 

[gregvet]

Report back in when you have heard the Refs with suitable amplification, and we'll see then if this compromise has become so negligible, as to be a non-issue!

Yes sir lol

I should get to hear the fact 8's on tuesday, who knows they might be my perfect speaker.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes sir lol

I should get to hear the fact 8's on tuesday, who knows they might be my perfect speaker.

Do you know what they will be connected to, or indeed what options they have available?

 

[gregvet]

After hearing the 8200AP at home, I think processors are a product that you need to try out in your own system in order to appreciate the full benefits. The AP has totally opened up the music reproduction in my system, and that's up against a £2.5k all-singing pre-processor.

Out of interest David, have you ever had any of the arcam av bits in your system?

 

[Frank Harvey]

We've had them in store, but I've not had any of them at home in my own system. I think the main reason for that is that my own AV system has always been an AV system - its never really been compromised by a product that is good with music too. I've always felt that an AV product that has been designed for good 2-channel performance is usually compromised on the movie side of things. Of course, anyone's view on this will depend on expectations and any compromises they're willing to live with (and indeed ones interpretation of compromise).

The Arcam processors were always out of my price range, so we're never really a onside ration, although I did once own a Tag AV32R192, which I did buy because at the time it was touted as the ideal processor for music and movies, but it's music wasn't up there with the best, and it's not an option I've visited since. Because of how basic the 8200AP is, it has surprised me with movies - it may not be the most accurate processor, but im enjoying films, which is the main thing. But it's 2-channel performance is top notch, and suiting me more at the moment as I've been discovering a lot of music over the past year or so, and continuing to do so.

An SP3 would be nice

 

[gregvet]

Yes sir lol

I should get to hear the fact 8's on tuesday, who knows they might be my perfect speaker.

Do you know what they will be connected to, or indeed what options they have available?

They only have naim and Cyrus amps as far as I am aware, and as I don't like naim it will most likely be the Cyrus I will hear them with. I will be popping in tomorrow to arrange the demo tho, so will see if they have anything more appropriate then.

They have the linn majik ds tho so at least the source can be the same as in my setup.

 

[CnoEvil]

They only have naim and Cyrus amps as far as I am aware, and as I don't like naim it will most likely be the Cyrus I will hear them with. I will be popping in tomorrow to arrange the demo tho, so will see if they have anything more appropriate then.

They have the linn majik ds tho so at least the source can be the same as in my setup.

I agree with your reservations. They may have Linn amps, which I'm not that keen on either, but might be worth a go. I think the Fact 8s need a hint of warmth....but look forward to your impressions.

Does this dealer have a website?

 

[CnoEvil]

In case it's of interest, when I bought the AVR600, I spent more time than was healthy, lurking on forums to glean as much info as possible....some of which compared it to the AV9/P7, as is the case here (see audio testing):
http://www.avforums.com/forums/arcam-products/933073-avr600-initial-impressions.html
and here (esp post No.74):
http://www.avforums.com/forums/arcam-products/870203-arcam-fmj-avr600-vs-arcam-fmj-av9-p7.html

Here it was pitted against a Pioneer Susano:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/arcam-products/960117-avr600-v-pioneer-lx90-susano.html

Take what you read about the AVR600 and scale it up a couple of levels for the AV888/P777.

It's not my intention to "push" you in a particular direction, only give you ideas/info/alternatives....so apologize if I come across like that. As I was stuck in today, I just thought I would try and dig up some of that old info again.

Though we overlap, David and I come at this from slightly different perspectives, which is important to know when assessing our advice (though tbf, he will always advise listening for yourself). David has a "no compromise" approach to his home cinema, whereas I look for an ability to play music first, and that then translates into how I like my home cinema to sound.

Understanding these 2 approaches is fundamental in helping decide which direction to go. IMO. If your AV and 2 Channel use the same system, it needs to be good with music (in a way that you prefer).

 

[gregvet]

I agree with your reservations. They may have Linn amps, which I'm not that keen on either, but might be worth a go. I think the Fact 8s need a hint of warmth....but look forward to your impressions.

Does this dealer have a website?

Sorry for the delay, been driving all day.

Its audio t in Brighton

http://www.audiot.co.uk/storefinder/brighton/

I think I might get them to use audiolab, as that then compares to my demo Friday at least. Probably closer to arcam than either naim or Cyrus too.

I will read those threads too Cno, thanks for taking the trouble

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry for the delay, been driving all day.

Its audio t in Brighton

http://www.audiot.co.uk/storefinder/brighton/

I think I might get them to use audiolab, as that then compares to my demo Friday at least. Probably closer to arcam than either naim or Cyrus too.

You don't need to apologize for enjoying the good weather!

It's a shame they don't stock Electrocompaniet in that store....if they're not all independent, could they get one in from another store for your demo.

 

[gregvet]

You don't need to apologize for enjoying the good weather! It's a shame they don't stock Electrocompaniet in that store....if they're not all independent, could they get one in from another store for your demo.

Motorway driving not my idea of enjoying the weather, but thanks!

Will pop in and have a chat with them tomorrow about amp options.

 

[CnoEvil]

They may have a £6k Rega Osiris, which might be worth a listen.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Currently looking at processor options to replace my trusty old Arcam AV9. Performance wise I have been very happy with it this far, except the lack of audio over HDMI is really irritating and has led to a massive tangle of cables behind the system that is doing my head in.

Getting the Linn Majik DS has also confirmed to me that the dac section of the arcam isn't all that either (marked improvement compared to sonos digitally feeding the arcam).

So I want to upgrade the processor. It needs to be good quality both for movies and blu ray sound quality, but also musical as the system is used for a lot of music.

Options that I can see (in ascending price) are:

Audiolab 8200AP

Arcam AV888

Bryston SP3

I had a demo of the bryston, and very nice it was too. If I can achieve most of that at a lower price tho, it would be nice.

How does the audiolab compare to what I have now? If it is comparable that could be a perfect stopgap while I save up for the bryston.

The obvious upgrade is the arcam, how much of an improvement is it over the av9, and are the reliability issues all resolved?

Any comments or suggestions welcome!

Hi gregvet

I'll recommend also looking at Audio Design Associates Suite 7.1 HD or Rhapsody Mach 4 AV processors.

http://www.ada.net/about/

http://www.ada.net/products/ht/suite_7.php

http://www.ada.net/products/ht/cinema_rhapsody_mach4.php

Btw, Audiolabs's 8200AP is superb and fwiw is so far my product of 2012

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[gregvet]

Btw, Audiolabs's 8200AP is superb and fwiw is so far my product of 2012

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks rick.

How would you compare the audiolab to the arcam av9, assuming you are familiar with the arcam?

The ADA products you linked to, would you say they are as good with music as the arcam av888 (for eg)?

Thanks again

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

If you are looking at the SP3 level I would suggest a demonstartion with the Anthem D2V. Correctly set up there is little to touch it for cinema performance, more so if you are looking to accomodate your cinema in a less than ideal set up. Stereo performance is astounding - certainly above the Arcam - and I have several D2V's installed in music focussed systems. A demonstration is key.

 

[gregvet]

I would suggest a demonstartion with the Anthem D2V.

Thanks Nick. I will also look at the anthem. I would rather not spend that much money, unless I feel that is the only way to get what I want/need!

Going to keep looking at all the options.

Thanks again

 

[Soopafly49]

After hearing the 8200AP at home, I think processors are a product that you need to try out in your own system in order to appreciate the full benefits. The AP has totally opened up the music reproduction in my system, and that's up against a £2.5k all-singing pre-processor.

I was thinking of this product later on down the line. I was thinking of buying the CDQ with some monos now do think the AP would be just as good as the CDQ in 2 channel? if this is the case should I just get the 8200 and AP and bypass the CDQ?

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've not compared the 8200AP and 8200CDQ directly to compare their pre-amp section or DACs, but I think if you're trying to squeeze as much as you can out of the 2-channel side of things, then the 8200CDQ should sound better, but I think if you heard them independently in two different places, I doubt you'd notice much, if any, difference between them. If you're wanting a good 2-channel system that also sounds good with movies, the 8200AP is a cracker. If you're only going to use it for 2-channel reproduction though, the 8200CDQ/8200M combo will be the way forward. Unless of course, you're considering mutli-channel music, in which case, it's perfect.

 

[WishTree]

Little late may be.. but how about the Classe SSP 800?