Pre-amp question

[hybridauth_Facebook_10157210844915176]

Hello, I have a question about my pre-amp, Denon PMA 700 AE. Actually, Its not a preamp but I'm using it as a preamp for my Audio Analogue Donizetti amp, through a PS Audio DLIII DAC. The speakers I use are KEF Q series.

Here's my question: I'm actually happy with the sound quality I get, but most people tell me I should change the Denon to a proper preamp to get a much better sound quality. I really dont want to spend more money on this system, but if I could find a reasonable priced pre-amp that would really change the overall sound quality, I'll start to think about it. What do you think of the preamp capabilities of Denon and does it really lower down the sound quality? Thank you for the answers and recommendations.

 

[Al ears]

Hello, I have a question about my pre-amp, Denon PMA 700 AE. Actually, Its not a preamp but I'm using it as a preamp for my Audio Analogue Donizetti amp, through a PS Audio DLIII DAC. The speakers I use are KEF Q series.

Here's my question: I'm actually happy with the sound quality I get, but most people tell me I should change the Denon to a proper preamp to get a much better sound quality. I really dont want to spend more money on this system, but if I could find a reasonable priced pre-amp that would really change the overall sound quality, I'll start to think about it. What do you think of the preamp capabilities of Denon and does it really lower down the sound quality? Thank you for the answers and recommendations.

It is always adviseable to use pre and power from the same manufacturer. Your power amp is quite expensive. How much is 'reasonable' price? You could sell the Xenon to add to your budget.

 

[TrevC]

"It is always adviseable to use pre and power from the same manufacturer. "

Why do you think that? Unless he's using a turntable the Denon is probably only being used as a switching and volume control box. I doubt changing it will be of benefit.

 

[chebby]

Here's my question: I'm actually happy with the sound quality I get, but most people tell me I should change the Denon to a proper preamp to get a much better sound quality. I really dont want to spend more money on this system ...

Get one of the 'most people' you mentioned to back up what they saying by bringing their 'proper preamp' around for you to try.

Otherwise, just consider how rare you are - as someone who is happy with their system - and enjoy it.

 

[Al ears]

"It is always adviseable to use pre and power from the same manufacturer. "

Why do you think that? Unless he's using a turntable the Denon is probably only being used as a switching and volume control box. I doubt changing it will be of benefit.

I'll not bother getting into another pointless argument, just try looking at a few other threads on here regarding disappointing pre power amp choices and you'll see what I mean.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10157210844915176]

"Get one of the 'most people' you mentioned to back up what they saying by bringing their 'proper preamp' around for you to try.

Otherwise, just consider how rare you are - as someone who is happy with their system - and enjoy it."

I totally agree, but still, you know, I'm curious with what I can add to the system..

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10157210844915176]

How much is 'reasonable' price? You could sell the Xenon to add to your budget.

I think 500-750 euros would be a reasonable price for a preamp for my system. I think its hard to find a Audio Analogue preamp in that range...

 

[Al ears]

How much is 'reasonable' price? You could sell the Xenon to add to your budget.

I think 500-750 euros would be a reasonable price for a preamp for my system. I think its hard to find a Donizetti preamp in that range...

I don't know where in the world you are but at least there is an Audio Analogue Puccini SE integrated currently on eBay for a very reasonable price and, although I don't normally see the point of using an integrated as a preamp, it's going to be a better match than your Denon.

And you are right, the matching preamp would be the Bellini but that's about £1700 new.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10157210844915176]

So, you suggest, a preamp in such price range would be a much better fit for the system (preferably same brand) and help me get a better sound... Right?

 

[Al ears]

So, you suggest, a preamp in such price range would be a much better fit for the system (preferably same brand) and help me get a better sound... Right?

You may be happy with the sound you have got at the moment so no I am not suggesting that.

What I am suggesting is that it is offer very difficult to get a preamplifier and a power amplifier from different manufacturers to work well together and trying to get a Denon integrated that would retail at about £190 to work as a preamp with a power amp in the class you have is not something I would try.

The preamp is crucial in a sound system and why anyone would attempt to use an integrated amp of this quality as a preamp is beyond me. I am not aware of where you sourced your, very good quality, power amp from but perhaps you should have looked for the matching preamp as well. It would have resulted in an excellent system.

Now you are asking people to suggest a good preamp when most will not have ever heard an Audio Analogue system.

To be perfectly honest I never created the Q series KEFs and so maybe you should be looking at improvements from a different angle if you have a limited budget.

Personal opinion only you understand.

 

[TrevC]

"It is always adviseable to use pre and power from the same manufacturer. "

Why do you think that? Unless he's using a turntable the Denon is probably only being used as a switching and volume control box. I doubt changing it will be of benefit.

I'll not bother getting into another pointless argument, just try looking at a few other threads on here regarding disappointing pre power amp choices and you'll see what I mean.

Who's arguing? I'm not. I'm just curious about the reason why you said what you said bearing in mind the OP is already happy with the sound. He could buy an expensive preamp and find it sounds the same, which is the most likely scenario.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_10157210844915176]

He could buy an expensive preamp and find it sounds the same, which is the most likely scenario.

Thats what I'm afraid of. yes, thank you.

 

[Al ears]

I'll leave it there then. Perhaps wondering why the OP is taking advice from some people and then coming on here for clarification from other people that don't have a clue. Hey ho! another day at the office.

Sometimes I wonder why I waste my time.

 

[Al ears]

"It is always adviseable to use pre and power from the same manufacturer. "

Why do you think that? Unless he's using a turntable the Denon is probably only being used as a switching and volume control box. I doubt changing it will be of benefit.

I'll not bother getting into another pointless argument, just try looking at a few other threads on here regarding disappointing pre power amp choices and you'll see what I mean.

Who's arguing? I'm not. I'm just curious about the reason why you said what you said bearing in mind the OP is already happy with the sound. He could buy an expensive preamp and find it sounds the same, which is the most likely scenario.

I think not, but then I am not the OP.

I'd be asking if it still sounds wonderful if he left out the power amp and ran everything straight from the integrated.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Bora Subakan

If you want to see what a dedicated pre amp can offer then for a relatively little outlay look out for a NAD C160, Rotel RC-972 or a Rotel RC-995 on the used market.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[lindsayt]

Here's my question: I'm actually happy with the sound quality I get, but most people tell me I should change the Denon to a proper preamp to get a much better sound quality. I really dont want to spend more money on this system ...

Get one of the 'most people' you mentioned to back up what they saying by bringing their 'proper preamp' around for you to try.

Otherwise, just consider how rare you are - as someone who is happy with their system - and enjoy it.

Excellent post from Chebby. I agree totally.

 

[lindsayt]

Hi Bora Subakan

If you want to see what a dedicated pre amp can offer then for a relatively little outlay look out for a NAD C160, Rotel RC-972 or a Rotel RC-995 on the used market.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Really good suggestions from Rick and refreshing to see a trade member recommending 2nd hand.

You may also like to try a stepped attenuator (passive resistor based pre-amp). These are highly system dependent. With the right source and power amp (and short connecting leads) they can offer the most transparent sounding "pre-amp" for a couple of hundred quid new. With the wrong type of source they can make your system sound as flat as a pancake.

 

[Al ears]

Hi Bora Subakan

If you want to see what a dedicated pre amp can offer then for a relatively little outlay look out for a NAD C160, Rotel RC-972 or a Rotel RC-995 on the used market.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Really good suggestions from Rick and refreshing to see a trade member recommending 2nd hand.

You may also like to try a stepped attenuator (passive resistor based pre-amp). These are highly system dependent. With the right source and power amp (and short connecting leads) they can offer the most transparent sounding "pre-amp" for a couple of hundred quid new. With the wrong type of source they can make your system sound as flat as a pancake.

I would agree however spouting list of preamps to try, even second-hand, is not that clever. My advice stands. If you as happy with system as is then stop listening to advice of others but if you heed them then at least stick with buying a preamp from same manufacturer as your power amp.

Anyone tried a Cyrus preamp with a Naim power amp??

 

[lindsayt]

Al ears, I don't think I've heard a cyrus preamp with a Naim power amp.

I do use a Lightspeed resistor based pre-amp with a Korneff clone power amp.

I also use a Pioneer active crossover as pre-amp with Coincident (SET) and JBL (solid state) power amps.

I have no qualms about using pre-amps that come from different continents - never mind the same manufacturer.

If it sounds good for the money spent then all is well on the hi-fi front.

And there's no harm in the OP trying a few different pre-amps, as long as he's listening to other people's gear, or buying on sale or return, or buying at a price he can sell on if he doesn't like it.

 

[Al ears]

Al ears, I don't think I've heard a cyrus preamp with a Naim power amp.

I do use a Lightspeed resistor based pre-amp with a Korneff clone power amp.

I also use a Pioneer active crossover as pre-amp with Coincident (SET) and JBL (solid state) power amps.

I have no qualms about using pre-amps that come from different continents - never mind the same manufacturer.

If it sounds good for the money spent then all is well on the hi-fi front.

And there's no harm in the OP trying a few different pre-amps, as long as he's listening to other people's gear, or buying on sale or return, or buying at a price he can sell on if he doesn't like it.

You are wrong on the Cryus / Naim front.

Your other observations are relevant.

 

[lindsayt]

Al ears I can't remember ever hearing a Cyrus pre-amp with a Naim power amp. It's possible I have and can't remember it now. In which case that would suggest that the combination was not particularly memorable.

Maybe you can tell me when and where I have heard this combination?

 

[Al ears]

Al ears I can't remember ever hearing a Cyrus pre-amp with a Naim power amp. It's possible I have and can't remember it now. In which case that would suggest that the combination was not particularly memorable.

Maybe you can tell me when and where I have heard this combination?

A very good friend of mine had this particular combo back in the 90s simply because he got Cyrus preamp on the cheap because his Naim preamp developed a fault. Don't ask which models as I cannot recall.

All I do remember is they are not a recommended pairing.

I was using a Crimson Pre/Power at the time which, quite frankly, wiped the floor with this miss-matched combo.

If you have ever heard this combination you'd remember it.