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Power cable / speaker cable quandary

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davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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ellisdj said:
Its been a positive thread for several pages must have been some anger building up within a few regulars who just cant wait to mention science.... its funny
Just mild despair.

There are millions of people out there who love music, might possibly take a look at some of the concurrent threads on this forum and think,

**** that, this is mad, I'll just buy a Bose.
 

DougK

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2013
748
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davedotco said:
ellisdj said:
Its been a positive thread for several pages must have been some anger building up within a few regulars who just cant wait to mention science.... its funny
Just mild despair.

There are millions of people out there who love music, might possibly take a look at some of the concurrent threads on this forum and think,

F*ck that, this is mad, I'll just buy a Bose.
*ROFL* LMFAO
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
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ellisdj said:
Its been a positive thread for several pages must have been some anger building up within a few regulars who just cant wait to mention science.... its funny
Ellis,

The 'scientific method' is the basis of every piece of technology you buy. Every cable, every electronic component, even the electricity powering your equipment is the result of study and research using science.

You must appreciate the irony of dismissing the very foundations that all of your equipment is based upon.... its funny.
 

andyjm

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Jul 20, 2012
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I sometimes wonder why I bother to post on threads like this.

I think it comes down to a philosophical point of view that if left unchallenged, views like these become mainstream. Its hardly going to effect world peace, but it is an area where I am an expert and perhaps enthusiasts come to this site looking for informed advice. It would be a shame if they believed some of the claims made here.

To quote Edmund Burke "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
 

cheeseboy

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Jul 17, 2012
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andyjm said:
I think it comes down to a philosophical point of view that if left unchallenged, views like these become mainstream.
yep, which is why we currently have the very dangerous anti-vax movement. It's the exact same mindset. The hubris of people who choose to dismiss such things "just because" never ceases to amaze me.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
gasolin said:
Havn't read all reply's mabye these power cable would make a difference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAXxekB7RmY&t
an interesting video, thanks for posting.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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andyjm said:
I sometimes wonder why I bother to post on threads like this.

I think it comes down to a philosophical point of view that if left unchallenged, views like these become mainstream. Its hardly going to effect world peace, but it is an area where I am an expert and perhaps enthusiasts come to this site looking for informed advice. It would be a shame if they believed some of the claims made here.

To quote Edmund Burke "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
This is just a part (a fairly trivial part admittedly) of the collapse of the education system in this country.

Pupils are no longer taught how to think, but what to think. The marxist system produces huge numbers of people who think in the same way, that their opinions and their feelings are all that matter and that these are somehow more important than reality.

The result is a population that is self obsessed, determined to be 'offended' by anyone who does not agree with them and determined to 'shut down' any opinions or views that does not fit 'their' narrative.

Hence we get threads where only people who agree with the premise are asked to comment, if you disagree or offer alternate views, you are not welcome and often the subject of disparaging comments.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
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@13

do you get any noise coming from your Toroidal Transformers inside your Cyprus stuff ?

i noticed I can hear humming coming from mine but it’s not coming from my speakers just the amplifier .

but obviously when playing music you do not hear it only when the room is quite I can hear my Toroidal Transformer humming .
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
I’ve never heard any buzzing from the units no, sometimes very small amounts of hiss from speakers but not discernible from listening position.
 

Blacksabbath25

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Sep 20, 2015
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QuestForThe13thNote said:
I’ve never heard any buzzing from the units no, sometimes very small amounts of hiss from speakers but not discernible from listening position.
ok I can’t hear mine if I am setting down only when I get next to the amplifier So I was wondering if I use a noise block the transformer on the amplifier that small humming sound might disappear
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
If you aren’t using one already black sabbath I can heavily recommend using a high current cable to the mains block, and get a star wired mains block like the Titan Styx without any busbars of the usual Ikea power bars etc, to ensure current is equal across sockets (plug your power amp into the first socket near the connecting lead). Also no surge protection bars with chokes that aren’t going to be great for current. They are not that expensive and for a few hundred quid I definetly think it’s worth it. I think you will get improved bass in your system. What are you currently using mains wise?
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
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QuestForThe13thNote said:
If you aren’t using one already black sabbath I can heavily recommend using a high current cable to the mains block, and get a star wired mains block like the Titan Styx without any busbars of the usual Ikea power bars etc, to ensure current is equal across sockets (plug your power amp into the first socket near the connecting lead). Also no surge protection bars with chokes that aren’t going to be great for current. They are not that expensive and for a few hundred quid I definetly think it’s worth it. I think you will get improved bass in your system. What are you currently using mains wise?
nothing currently it’s all standard and the amplifier is plugged straight to the wall and the rest plugged into a monster power block which just does surge protecton .
 

DougK

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2013
748
438
11,270
andyjm said:
I sometimes wonder why I bother to post on threads like this.

I think it comes down to a philosophical point of view that if left unchallenged, views like these become mainstream. Its hardly going to effect world peace, but it is an area where I am an expert and perhaps enthusiasts come to this site looking for informed advice. It would be a shame if they believed some of the claims made here.

To quote Edmund Burke "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
Keep contributing Andyjm, your posts bring balance to discussions like these *good*
 

jmjones

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2009
49
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18,545
Dave, Cobblers. (Just expressing my educated ability of how to think *blum3*). My kids don't think in the same way as me and have been brought up to challenge by both the system and their parents. Anyway, now that I've expressed my right to free speech:

You, Andy, Vlad and all the other techie types should keep up the good work. I for one enjoy seeing the alternative views expressed on here, as long as it stays the right side of causing offence. I believe that I'm one of many that sit here silent most of the time picking out things worth trying as a result. Personally I've tried different speaker cables (definititely better than bell-wire), digital interconnects (nope, couldn't hear a difference and spent quite a bit), mains purifier (did nowt, although I never did hear my fridge going on and off through my hifi anyway). I didn't bother with mains cables as a result of previous experience. Acoustic panelling is OUT even for consideration, it would ruin the effect of our radiator removing underfloor heating.

Electrical isn't my bag, but I'm a scientist and I like to understand the improvements that may be made, otherwise I'm sceptical. Healthy debate on here is useful. I've found it of a little more use since What Hifi moved away from measurements in reviews to mostly opinion. I've found that their view of good sound is often not mine, and the views on this forum are often more useful. Thanks for your efforts.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
My electrical engineer friend black sabbath who was a raf electrical engineer and then went onto years of a career in the private sector, tells me surge and spike protection is not good for great hi Fi. This correlates to my direct experience. He has the same pmcs and Cyrus stuff to me, which is interesting because we regularly bounce ideas of each other as to what works in our set ups and we tend always to agree, although he has pimped his dac xp signature pre and I haven’t.

But he tells me a two stage UPS can be one of the best things you can do to a hi Fi. That way you can protect against any surges without a surge block. Apparently they work on a battery system, but I know people who have used these to great effect. The most economical one is the power inspired ag500 from the uk. About £300 I think. The American ps audio ones are more expensive.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
andyjm said:
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Quest, was this link supposed to support your case? I couldn't find anything on there that could be considered supportive.
im not really wanting to get into supporting my case to people to those people who are non believers. You will have your views and are entitled to it. At the end of the day there is no hardship in finding out for free yourself by borrowing. If you’ve done so and it hasn’t made a difference, great too.
 
Personally, I’d be looking at fitting a dedicated mains spur just for the hi-fi, and if you really want to go crazy, one for digital components, one for analogue! Surely this would reduce/eradicate the need for multiple specialist mains cables. And work out cheaper.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
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I did get a chance to hear the effects of mains cables as a member on here came round my house and we tried lots of different power cables and blocks and the prices ranged from £150 for a mains cable to £20.000 or more it’s been awhile .

i found a small improvement with the £150 mains cable where the sound got a bit cleaner and that was also using a mains block but when we got to the expensive power cables I couldn’t tell a difference but again this was only using these products for 2-3 hours and time ran out but needed more time with the products really say a week on my setup before I could make my mind up properly .
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

Guest
Give it a go as your system changes black sabbath and with new amp it may be entirely different. I tried a mains block before and damm all difference but on less revealing speakers. As to a dedicated mains spur, what does that involve David and how expensive. I don’t think you need expense with cables. I found taking two cables off power amps is better so less price
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
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QuestForThe13thNote said:
andyjm said:
QuestForThe13thNote said:
Quest, was this link supposed to support your case? I couldn't find anything on there that could be considered supportive.
im not really wanting to get into supporting my case to people to those people who are non believers. You will have your views and are entitled to it. At the end of the day there is no hardship in finding out for free yourself by borrowing. If you’ve done so and it hasn’t made a difference, great too.
Quest, its not a case of belief or views. This isn't religion we are discussing.

In the days before Sir Isaac came along, people used to sit and argue about stuff endlessly. The scientific method put an end to it.

I works like this - you propose a theory, in your case that might be 'changing a properly specified mains cable for an audiophile cable leads to an audible difference in sound' , you then propose an experiment to either prove or disprove it. By describing the experiment, others are able to repeat the experiment and verify your results.

You could use a sensitive piece of measuring equipment to measure the sound with the original cable and then again with the new cable - looking for differences. It is quite difficult to capture the 'total sound' of a system, but something like audiodiffmaker was designed for this.

Alternatively, you could listen to the before and after sound yourself, and judge if there is a difference. The problem is humans are hopeless at this, and have well documented biases that make this type of test meaningless. If you look at the lengths drug companies go to, it gives an idea of how subtle the tests need to be to overcome these biases.

Blind ABX testing is probaly the best you can do at home (google how to do it), but this does require a willing assistant to make the changes, and even having an assitant involved can skew the results.
 

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