PMC Twenty Series First Impressions

Theo

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Dear Experts,

I realise the Twenty Series is yet to reach all dealerships but we are seriously short of proper reviews for the series. If anyone has had exposure to any model in the series, I would like to collate feedback.

Areas I would like covered are:

* Opinion on correlation to the i-series (which Twenty series model is supposed to correlate to which i-series model)

* Critical review of performance ( both positives & negatives )

* Predictions on future models that might be added to the series (25 ? 20?)

* The midrange performance on the Twenty series - comparison to the soft dome midrange found in OB1i, PB1i & EB1i

I am in the market for a good floorstander so been considering OB1i vs Twenty 24 so your expert opinion would help, I am sure others in the same position will benefit as well.

Thanks
 

Frank Harvey

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The new Twenty series is excellent, and for me, a huge step forward over the i-series. To cover your points in order...

None of the Twenty models are really supposed to correlate with any of the i-series, but I suppose if you really wanted to, you could say that size-wise, the Twenty.22 is closest to the TB2i, and the Twenty.24 is closest to the FB1i, but because the Twenty series is a completely different speaker (in every way) to the i-series, the Twenty range rates well above the i-series as far as quality is concerned.

As far as performance is concerned, the first thing I ntoiced about the Twenty range is their lack of boxiness. This comes across as a much cleaner sound than the i-series, and they sound better balanced to me too. They produce a much bigger soundstage - maybe that's due to the leaning cabinet, I don't know, but it's a wide open, detailed soundstage that's bigger than average. Good forward projection too.

The only negative I can think of at the moment is that they may be a tad bright for some, but for me, I like a bit of edge :)

Personally, I can see the i-series going eventually, i favour of the Twenty series. They could produce a Twenty.20 standmount - a sort of DB1i equivalent, and a Twenty.25 (maybe even a Twenty.26) to cover the OB1i/PB1i. But that's just a guess on my part.

I haven't tried the Twenty range against the OB1i/PB1i yet, but I suppose they'll have an advantage with their soft dome midrange, but until they do produce a Twenty.25/Twenty.26, it's hard to say how they'll compare really, and until then we won't know if these fictitious speakers would have a newly designed mid dome of their own... :)
 

oldric_naubhoff

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FrankHarveyHiFi said:
but because the Twenty series is a completely different speaker (in every way) to the i-series,

now Davey. don't you think this is a little bit too far fetched an opinion? two dynamic speakers, both coming from the same company are supposed to be completly different in every way? that would say a lot about PMC's consistency, I think.

BTW, I'm wondering how would you say if you were comparing PMC's Tweny series to say Quad ESLs or Podium Sound speakers? remember that term "different speaker in every way" is already taken. :rofl:
 

Andrew Everard

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...But factually correct, oldric_naubhoff: only one component is carried over from the i-series to the twenty range, and that's the fixings holding the mid/bass driver to the baffle.
 

Frank Harvey

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oldric_naubhoff said:
FrankHarveyHiFi said:
but because the Twenty series is a completely different speaker (in every way) to the i-series,

now Davey. don't you think this is a little bit too far fetched an opinion? two dynamic speakers, both coming from the same company are supposed to be completly different in every way? that would say a lot about PMC's consistency, I think.
As Andrew has stated, and PMC will tell you, they are entirely different speakers in the sense of the cabinet, drivers, crossover etc, only the fixing bolts remain the same. The difference between them shows in sound too.

BTW, I'm wondering how would you say if you were comparing PMC's Tweny series to say Quad ESLs or Podium Sound speakers? remember that term "different speaker in every way" is already taken. :rofl:
Now they're an entirely different speaker in terms of technology and design.
 

oldric_naubhoff

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Andrew Everard said:
...But factually correct, oldric_naubhoff: only one component is carried over from the i-series to the twenty range, and that's the fixings holding the mid/bass driver to the baffle.

fair enough. but those usually be some minor tweaks over already proven formula. far from revolution. but still, marketing dept. will definitely have grounds to argue it's a completely different design.
 

The_Lhc

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oldric_naubhoff said:
Andrew Everard said:
...But factually correct, oldric_naubhoff: only one component is carried over from the i-series to the twenty range, and that's the fixings holding the mid/bass driver to the baffle.

fair enough. but those usually be some minor tweaks over already proven formula. far from revolution. but still, marketing dept. will definitely have grounds to argue it's a completely different design.

Jeez dude, even *I* wouldn't try to argue my way out of that one! It's a completely different speaker.
 

oldric_naubhoff

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The_Lhc said:
Jeez dude, even *I* wouldn't try to argue my way out of that one! It's a completely different speaker.

all right, all right! I get your point! even a matching pair of Twenty series speakers are completely different speakers, ain't it? as in two leaves on a tree branch are completely different leaves, because they are in fact completely different leaves.
 

Frank Harvey

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oldric_naubhoff said:
Andrew Everard said:
...But factually correct, oldric_naubhoff: only one component is carried over from the i-series to the twenty range, and that's the fixings holding the mid/bass driver to the baffle.

fair enough. but those usually be some minor tweaks over already proven formula. far from revolution. but still, marketing dept. will definitely have grounds to argue it's a completely different design.

How about popping into a dealer who has i-series AND Twenty series and having a listen for yourself? I'm sure that'd put an end to your notion that these Twenties are just a tweak over the i's :)
 

Theo

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Thanks everyone for your comments so far.

Thanks David for your detailed feedback.

Could we have some more of the same? I am convinced there are others who have had the chance to listen to a pair by now.
 
A

Anonymous

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I've only had a quick listen of the 21s and I found them supurb, very neutral and cativating, thats my two pence. I'm saving my cash for the 22s hoping the'll be better still. Love my DB1is but I think they will be a significant upgrade.
 
Theo said:
Thanks everyone for your comments so far.

Thanks David for your detailed feedback.

Could we have some more of the same? I am convinced there are others who have had the chance to listen to a pair by now.

Maybe an audition is needed. To buy speakers on recommendations alone would be very risky.

Given that the range is very new it's unlikely many others have had the opportunity to hear them.
 

Theo

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Thanks P, yes an audition is on the cards - I always do multiple listening sessions before parting with my hard earned cash.

However, personnaly, I find that by doing a bit of homework before the listening session i.e. gathering expert feedback, I get to make best use of the limited demo time I get.

Also, some of you are fortunate enough to have many hours of exposure to all the models from PMC so would be able to comment on relative merits amongst the models (say i series vs Twenty series)
 

visionary

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oldric_naubhoff said:
The_Lhc said:
Jeez dude, even *I* wouldn't try to argue my way out of that one! It's a completely different speaker.

all right, all right! I get your point! even a matching pair of Twenty series speakers are completely different speakers, ain't it? as in two leaves on a tree branch are completely different leaves, because they are in fact completely different leaves.

Yeah but you had a point too, oldric. After all they aren't "completely different in every way"... you still apply an electrical signal and they still make a (hopefully musical) noise. That musical noise will sounds similar or different and the OP asked for opinions on their comparative performance.
 

The_Lhc

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visionary said:
oldric_naubhoff said:
The_Lhc said:
Jeez dude, even *I* wouldn't try to argue my way out of that one! It's a completely different speaker.

all right, all right! I get your point! even a matching pair of Twenty series speakers are completely different speakers, ain't it? as in two leaves on a tree branch are completely different leaves, because they are in fact completely different leaves.

Yeah but you had a point too, oldric. After all they aren't "completely different in every way"... you still apply an electrical signal and they still make a (hopefully musical) noise.

Oh for dog's sake, don't be so pedantic (that's MY job!), within the boundaries of still being speakers there is only one common component, a bolt, they are a completely different speaker.

That musical noise will sounds similar or different and the OP asked for opinions on their comparative performance.

Yes, and he got it, with no help from O_N.
 
A

Anonymous

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Gave the twenty.23 a listen this week. Great first impression!

I have listended to PMC's here before (FBi an OBi's). The only gripe I had with them is the treble, wich is somewhat unspectatuclar.

That has changed now. These are really nice, open and dynamic in the top end. A bit forward too. Which is great news for tube amps. The bass is still tight, deep and well defined. Overal the sound is still dry and thight but now with more spectale at the top end.

They are making me doubt about buying Triangle Genese Quartet which are so lively and give a huge sound stage. The bass is less authourative thoug. Must hear these side by side....

In short: yes these are PMC's, but not as we know them. For some that will be great news.
 

Theo

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Thanks Zoldar, very informative and useful feedback.

I am liking what I am hearing so far of the strenghts of the Twenty Series.

Thanks again everyone!
 
A

Anonymous

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i've been looking for floorstanding speakers for my Cyrus kit to replace my aged Mission 782s. After auditioning ProAc D18s, Monitor Audio GX300s and PMC FB1i and Twenty 24s, I've ordered a pair of 24s.

My dealer also allowed me to compare the PMCs with the £5k FACT8s. The 24s' sound is definitely closer to the FACTs than the FB1i's, with tighter bass, more expressive midrange and crisper top end. They sound very open and I wouldn't want anything brighter with Cyrus kit - my dealer owns a pair of FACTs and he was suitably impressed with the 24s in comparison!!
 

Theo

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Thanks chriscoxon - very useful feedback indeed, I am aiming for the Twenty 24 myself, can I ask whether you were able to negotiate a deal over the MSRP?

Your comparision of the 24s to FACT8 is interesting, did you mean to say the 24s are not as capable as the FACTs? That is interesting because according to the following comparison, the facts sound leaner than the OB1i.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/pmc-ob1i-vs-fact-8

I know it is probably not wise to compare this way but this almost seem to imply the Twenty 24 is not really a better alternative to OB1i which is what I am after.

David, if you read this, perhaps you could comment on your comparison of FACT8 vs OB1i and perhaps mention where you see the Twenty 24s in relative terms?
 

Frank Harvey

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Theo said:
David, if you read this, perhaps you could comment on your comparison of FACT8 vs OB1i and perhaps mention where you see the Twenty 24s in relative terms?

I've not done any direct comparisons, but I know them well enough to be able to comment.

I feel the Twenty series is better than i-series - they're tighter, less boxy sounding (I'm not saying i-series was boxy, just that these are less boxy!). They sound cleaner and more open, with a larger soundstage. Their sound is more like the Fact sound, but the weird thing is that I'm not overly keen on the Facts, but I love the new twenty series (!). I think because the Twenty series has the low end that the Fact doesn't (relatively speaking), that's one of the reasons I like them. Just to be clear, the Fact does have a decent low end for the size of the driver units, and it can be brought out by hefty amplification, but it's just not enough for me. I suppose some might see the Fact sound as a little bit like . The Twenty models are similar to this, but have the sort of bottom end that most people will prefer.

There is currently no rival for the OB1i in the Twenty series, so it's hard to compare like for like. Until (if ever) higher range Twenty models appear, I still think there's a market for the OB1i and FB1i. If it were me choosing either Fact, Twenty, or i-series under £5k, I'd be going with the Twenty.

Hope this helps :)
 

True Blue

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I have listened to both the GB1i's and the new 23's (I think). After a recent visit to my dealer to discuss a possible downsize due to circumstances, a naim unity was plugged into the 23's. Very clean sound, definately PMC but the treble especially was very very sweet. No doubt they would sound better with even better equipment and sound wise they are beautiful. Asthetically from any other angle than head on they are pig ugly. It also looks like the speaker has slipped forwards on its plinth by 1/2" so for those (like myself) with slight OCD tendancies that would be enough for me not to buy them.

Are they worth the premium over the GB1i's? IMHO no.
 

datay

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True Blue said:
It also looks like the speaker has slipped forwards on its plinth by 1/2" so for those (like myself) with slight OCD tendancies that would be enough for me not to buy them.

Valuable information for many of us who post on hifi forums, which almost by default you have to be somewhat obsessive to do so :)
 

Frank Harvey

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6320482736_9c659f210b.jpg
 

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