Playing music quietly

[cisamcgu]

I tend to play relatively quietly, often more as "background" music rather than a focal point. In this sort of situation, does the quality matter, specifically the quality of the amplifier and speakers - what I mean is, I suppose, does music have to be played loud to get full benefit from a high quality system ?

I have an old Denon M30 cd/amp system and 40 year old Wharfedale speakers and a old Rega TT

Andrew

 

[chebby]

I tend to play relatively quietly, often more as "background" music rather than a focal point. In this sort of situation, does the quality matter, specifically the quality of the amplifier and speakers - what I mean is, I suppose, does music have to be played loud to get full benefit from a high quality system ?

No.

Loud enough for a 'full' sound (no freqeuency extremes dropping off due to very low volume) but not so loud you have to shout to converse with another person in the same room.

Definitely not so loud you feel any discomfort with your ears and / or the sound starts to clip. (Sustained levels over 85dB can cause permanent damage to your hearing.)

 

[tino]

A high quality system can sound good and revealing at low volumes as well as higher ones - my valve amplifier is certainly better in this respect than my solid state amplifiers. My question to you would be whether the investment in a higher quality system would be worth it, if by your own admission, you just listen to music in the background.

 

[AudioPlaya]

Whil'st it's true that virtually all systems will sound best at medium to high volumes, I honestly think you'll be very happy with an upgrade given the age of your kit, even though you play at low volumes. Of course some systems don't take that kindly to low volumes, many strain at very high volumes, particularly if lack of power is an issue.

In my personal experience the very smallest speakers don't really cut it at low volumes, the slightly larger cabinet size of medium standmounters provides authority and scale which helps mitigate the 'thin' sound of a system playing very quietly. Have to say lean sounding amps also fall into that trap, although I have a quite lean cyrus amp in my bedroom and the sweetness of the thing with the right music has sang me to sleep many many times (at very low volumes). There are some talents that seem to shine through at any volume like timing, a way with rythms or just sheer musicality.

 

[cisamcgu]

What amplifiers are suited to "quiet" playing - are there specific types ? Makes ? Powers ?

 

[AlmaataKZ]

the ones with loudness compensation button (activate on low level) or tone controls (up bass and treble a bit on low level).

Some av receivers have variable loudness compensation as part of their DSP features - this is exactly what you are looking for. Some advanced active speakers (big B&Os I think have this) have variable loundess compensation built into their DSP also.

If I remember correctly, your Denon has tone controls. See if using htem gives you the sound you are after. Another option can be to get a small sub, then bass can be boosted a bit separately on its own controls.

 

[cheeseboy]

What amplifiers are suited to "quiet" playing - are there specific types ? Makes ? Powers ?

have a look at the t-amps

 

[cisamcgu]

I had a look at T-amps, and they do look interesting, however, I am doubtful that my 40 year old Wharfedale Dentons would be good enough for it - it seems to need a very sensitive speaker ?

Andrew

 

[cheeseboy]

funny you should mention the wharfedale dentons - it's exactly what I'm using with my t-amp at the moment admitidly the times I do "proper" listening (which is few and far between at the moment!) I think that it would be nice to try out some more sensitive speakers just to see what the amp can really do, but 99% of the time, it sounds great Even then I've not pushed it above 3am on the amp as it was starting to get a bit loud Having said all of that, for 30 quid (don't be put off by the price) you could buy one to try out and if you didn't like it, probably sell it on for not much less http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MUSE-M20-EX2-TA2020-Amplifier-T-Amp-20Wx2-Black-Silver-Gold-/251412172017?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item3a89554cf1

 

[manicm]

Generally speaking, a good quality, more powerful amplifier will sound better at lower volumes. Obviously valve amps behave differently, but so will a genuine class A amp sound better at low volumes.

 

[SpursGator]

I am a little late to this thread, but it is an interesting question that I have thought a lot about.

Unless your amp or preamp has a loudness control, it's really about the speakers. Certain amps will sound better when revved up a little, but in general, the quieter an amp must play, the easier. On the other hand, a speaker designer can very deliberately take aim at a certain SPL and optimise the speaker for that volume. It is a very special speaker that truly sounds great at all volumes. As general rule, the better it seems to sound at low volumes, the worse it will sound when played loud.

One popular pair of speakers that I think sounds much, much better at low volumes are my ProAc D18s. If you take a look at the frequency response of most ProAcs, the curve tends to be a bit smile-shaped: a slight boost of bass and treble, and a slight recess in the midband. In other words, some speakers have a loudness control built in. When this is done subtly, it's praised as a 'BBC-dip,' in reference to the classic LS3/5a monitor. When overdone, people refer to it as 'tizz-and-boom.' But it's the same thing - a recessed band between 2 and 4 kHz.

Speakers with a BBC dip will tend to sound better at low volumes. Flatter speakers tend to sound like all midrange at low volumes but then come alive when the volume is turned up.

Note that some designs inherently are bad at playing loud. One example of this is the 6+1 floorstander (such as the D18s). Regardless of dip or no dip, a two-way floorstander with a smallish bass driver (eg 6") is going to be designed to give some decent bass (which is what people want when they buy a floorstander). With a lowish sensitivity driver and a nice big box, it's no problem, but this design is going to sound compressed when played loud - the large bass excursion is going to start to affect the midrange, and the amp is going to have to really work to get the SPLs from the low efficiency design (also possibly leading to harshness in the midrange).

So a valid solution is to turn down the midrange. When the user turns up the volume he gets more pounding bass, and the increasingly harsh midrange is de-emphasised. And since the BBC dip sounds better at lower volumes anyway, it's a good design decision all round for a 6+1.

So if you want a good low volume system, a good amp, paired with small two-way floorstanders with a BBC dip, is a good way to get it. Flat speakers plus an amp with a loudness control will give you the smae result (although conventional wisdom says this is more low fi), and both at the same time will give you some serious tizz-and-boom.

 

[Tear Drop]

Generally speaking, a good quality, more powerful amplifier will sound better at lower volumes. Obviously valve amps behave differently, but so will a genuine class A amp sound better at low volumes.

Just curious, can you explain why the power of an amplifier will be important for low volume playing?

 

[davedotco]

Generally speaking, a good quality, more powerful amplifier will sound better at lower volumes. Obviously valve amps behave differently, but so will a genuine class A amp sound better at low volumes.

Just curious, can you explain why the power of an amplifier will be important for low volume playing?

I do not think there is an obvious answer to that.

My own personal theory is that more powerful amplifiers are more adept at following the tiny dynamic shifts that helps music sound real and somehow frees it from the speaker enclosure. This applies, I think, to 'coventional' solid state electronics.

My own modestly powered valve amplifiers sound wonderful at low level and I know of some very low powered devices that do just as well in suitable systems and then there are some folks who say similar things about small T Amps, which are low powered digital systems.

In addition to amplifier variations, speakers with high sensitivity seem to sound more open, again freeing the music from the speakers, so you can see, there really is no simple answers here.

 

[Tear Drop]

In addition to amplifier variations, speakers with high sensitivity seem to sound more open, again freeing the music from the speakers, so you can see, there really is no simple answers here.

Absolutely, the ability to play well at low volumes is system dependent, which would imply that the lower the noise floor the better (or sound floor as it has been more accurately described, which I agree with, as the term noise floor is misleading).

 

[cisamcgu]

This is very interesting, thank you all for your input. If I am reading it right, a relatively powerful amp would not be a waste even if I play most things quietly, but sensitive speakers would be a benefit.

I rather like the 316bee from NAD, but t be honest I am just pondering and half waiting from the M30 to givve up the ghost

Anyway, if I did, at some point, get the NAD, would the Dali Zensor 3 be a good match ?