Pioneer SC-LX81 Review changed???

[Anonymous]

Wilsact, its unfair to say the system is flawed because the SC-LX81 has dropped to 4 stars and the much cheaper SC-LX71 has stayed on 4 stars...the fact remains, they are both at different price points. The stars don't reflect an absolute performance, they reflect performance at the price point. A 4 star £10,000 product would perform better than a 5 star £200 product. The stars represent what you get for your money.

If all units with the same stars performed to the same standard, why would anyone buy anything other than the cheapest unit with the most stars? Using this logic we should all rush out and buy the Sony STR-DG820...Reviewed in the March 2009 edition, it got 5 stars and cost £300. It must be just as good as the Denon AVC-A1HD which was reviewed in Oct 2008 and got 5 stars, but costs £5000. But hey, five stars is five stars, so why doesn't everyone rush out and get the Sony? Because the ratings also take into account the price of the unit and the expectation of performance/features at that price.

If you don't believe the reviews, you are still perfectly at liberty to be your own reviewer and go and test anythign you want yourself. Only then will you be able to decide whether any extra investment is worth it to your ears (irrespective of those pesky stars)

I own an RX-V3900 and I bought it when it was a 5 star machine. I still think it's a great performer and it doesn't sound any worse now it only gets 4 stars. I have read a few RX-V3900 owners berating their units for the careless loss of a star, but I think this will only make the poor things feel worse...Personally I am going to cling to the fact it is actually still a 5 star performer...as confirmed on p109 of the June magazine, despite being reviewed on p61 of the same mag and only getting 4 stars. The moral of the story? Reviews are advice, but you can't beat checking it out for yourself!

 

[Anonymous]

Your missing the point, I wasn't trying to compare different categories as being the same on star value. The SC-LX71 is only marginally cheaper then the SC-LX81, and whathifi often say to take the 81 over the 71, so they obivously think they are in a similar price point. I am not stupid enough to think that a 200 pound 4 star machine is in the same league as a 2000 pound 4 star unit.

All I am saying is that the star system is not fair because star rating in the 'SAME CATEGORIES' are only adjusted if the product happens to be reviewed, if not it is left alone whilst the others may have stars cut.

A better exmaple might be that in the previous review containing the Pioneer SC-LX81, Yamaha 3900, and Onkyo NR906 both the Pioneer and Yamaha rated 5 stars, whilst the Onkyo rated 4. Now because the Pioneer and yamaha were put up against the new sony they drop to 4, whilst the onkyo which was not reviewed stays at its previous 4 stars (and now equal to the yamaha and Pioneer).

Whilst its always important to use your own judgement on what sounds, performs, and looks best many people use whathifi as a trusted guide, thus a reliable fair rating system is a must.

It's definately not a fair system in its current format, and I think all people are asking for is for whathifi (who I for one value highly) to perhaps take some of the feedback that people are making not as criticism, but as a positive on ways to further improve. As a loyal reader for many many years I would hope like others that counts for something.

 

[Anonymous]

Even comparing in the "same category" is difficult...one of the reasons I went for the RX-V3900 (over the V1900 incidentally) is that it was a Network Receiver. The Sony isn't a Network Receiver (I think you can buy an upgrade, but again that raises the price), so by my selection criteria, the two aren't really comparable at all. For my requirements, rather than being better, the Sony simply isn't fit for purpose! Clearly the reviewers felt differently, but they had their reasons for their views and that's fine.

Ultimately, you can't take a 4 star review as being an inferior product. Even an older one. Given your own ears and combination of other equipment, a 4 or possibly even 3 star product could out perform, in your view, a 5 star product, so the onus is on the buyer to use the reivews as a guide, but not a bible. No the review system is not perfect, you're absolutely right, but it doesn't claim to be anything other than advice/opinion...just like this forum.

 

[Anonymous]

From the posts above, a constructive suggestion might be to show the star rating history on products listed. Such as the first tested star rating and the date of first test. This would be in addition to the latest rating and date.

Thus people would be able to compare like with like. It would also show where a product was in the grand scheme of things, when it was launched, verses where it is today. That would pretty much solve the problem I think.

Overall the star system is a very good, very fair, very enjoyable and consumer friendly system. It lacks a bit of memory, but this could be rectified without too much difficulty if the result doesn't end up causing more confusion than it solves. It's up to the magazine to make the choice.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Will Harris:It lacks a bit of memory, but this could be rectified without too much difficulty

Will you tell him, Mr Duncan, or shall I?

Will Harris:if the result doesn't end up
causing more confusion than it solves.

...which is exactly what I think it will do.

 

[Anonymous]

What will Mr. Duncan be telling me? ;-)

Like I said, I think the system works well enough. It has flaws, but what system doesn't? If people do a bit of research, they'll find the early reviews and can make up their own minds.

One thing that might help, is for WHFSV to put group tests up on the web. Say with a six month delay from publication. Don't want to see circulation reduced. No doubt someone will tell me it's technically impossible to do, but it's just a suggestion.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Will Harris:What will Mr. Duncan be telling me? ;-)

Just how difficult it is to make what look like simple changes.

And re the group tests thing - all the tests within a group test are posted online soon after the issue appears. A six month delay might well confuse even more if one or more of the products within a group has been discontinued, tested again or price-adjusted in the meantime.

It's really a simple matter of having dates on reviews, on which point I refer the honorable gentleman to my previous answer...

 

[Anonymous]

Which I read and agree wholeheartedly with. Dates on reviews is the key thing. Point taken re: complexity. Glad I don't have to make the back end of the website function!

 

[rajeeboy]

I can't see what the fuss is about. The Pioneer is a great product. It has been overtaken slightly by the best in class. WHF did this with the Onkyo N805 last year (even though it was the awards winner). Products get overtaken with the passage of time. People have bought the Pioneer need not feel downhearted. They still have a great amp. Its just in the learned reviewer's opinion, its not quite the product it was last year.

I have a Yamaha DSP A1. It was 5 stars when it was reviewed circa 1998 (?). I doubt if it as highly rated anymore even thought WHF haven't reappraised its star rating.

 

[Anonymous]

Acciesboy:
I have read a few RX-V3900 owners berating their units for the careless loss of a star, but I think this will only make the poor things feel worse...Personally I am going to cling to the fact it is actually still a 5 star performer...as confirmed on p109 of the June magazine, despite being reviewed on p61 of the same mag and only getting 4 stars.

I don't think that an AV Receive actually has any "feelings". I suppose you give your RX-V3900 lots of encouragement and tender loving care so that it performs as a 5 Star performer?

While the receiver doesn't sound worse, I believe what the review is saying is that the Sony sounds better. Whatever the number of stars, I still think that I also made the right decision to get the Yamaha when it was a 5 Star product with all the necessary features, etc. as that was the best for me at that time (and still is actually).

 

[Anonymous]

Acciesboy:
Even comparing in the "same category" is difficult...one of the reasons I went for the RX-V3900 (over the V1900 incidentally) is that it was a Network Receiver. The Sony isn't a Network Receiver (I think you can buy an upgrade, but again that raises the price), so by my selection criteria, the two aren't really comparable at all. For my requirements, rather than being better, the Sony simply isn't fit for purpose! Clearly the reviewers felt differently, but they had their reasons for their views and that's fine.

Yes, that's why I believe the Group test also include a subcategory rating even though the number of stars don't necessarily determine the final ranking.

 

[Anonymous]

rajeeboy:
I can't see what the fuss is about. The Pioneer is a great product. It has been overtaken slightly by the best in class. WHF did this with the Onkyo N805 last year (even though it was the awards winner). Products get overtaken with the passage of time. People have bought the Pioneer need not feel downhearted. They still have a great amp. Its just in the learned reviewer's opinion, its not quite the product it was last year.

I have a Yamaha DSP A1. It was 5 stars when it was reviewed circa 1998 (?). I doubt if it as highly rated anymore even thought WHF haven't reappraised its star rating.

Ahh, but you have the pleasure that your product went out on top with its legacy intact. Kind of like when Michael Jordan first retired. Had he remined in retirement, he would have gone out with his legacy untarnished instead of going out only after his status was somewhat "downgraded" after his stint with the Wizards.

But seriously folks, we're talking electronic products here! Don't get too hung up on the absolute number of stars and I think even 4 Stars products can be the "ideal" product for you as well based on price, features, performance, looks, etc. considerations.

 

[d4v3pum4]

rajeeboy:
I have a Yamaha DSP A1. It was 5 stars when it was reviewed circa 1998 (?). I doubt if it as highly rated anymore even thought WHF haven't reappraised its star rating.

The A1 is a proper amp with excellent components but lacks bells and whistles but if you speak to anyone that has upgraded from one to one of today's amps, they've had to spend serious coin to better it!

I think the problem is that the re-rating (dropping of stars) isn't across the board. Some products remain untouched yet other ratings are amended. There is at least one Sony amp that still has 5 stars that has been superceded several times. Can I ask why? Leave the star ratings alone as it seems to me that the dropping of stars is basically so that one product can be highlighted on it's own as a 5 star product. Otherwise, revamp the whole system and award ratings based on percentages for each category.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes exactly the point. Some star ratings are affected if reviewed, whilst others are left alone. So as i said above a unit that previously rated below another can later equal, or even possibly overtake merely becasue it has not been group tested, where others have!!!! All comes down to whether a product happens to be in a grouptest etc. This unfortunately means the star ratings are pretty useless. I don't think the point here is that the Pioneer, Yamaha etc were overtaken by the Sony unit on star rating, more so that units that were previously ranked lower now equal them fromm not being included in the grouptest.

This must be more of a issue with new readers who are not aware of previous rankings etc, and can only go off current star ratings. Will the Onkyo 906 soon out star and then in the casual readers eyes outrank the Pioneer SC-LX81 and Yamaha 3900 if it avoids being group tested again?

 

[2cool]

to be honest i think its more to do with the fact that peaple who buy product by pioneer, yamaha, sony what ever want them to do well in star rankings and if your product that you spend £1500 on dosn't do well its a big disappiontment.

I myself have a pioneer vsx lx60 it looks very much like the sc lx81 and has many similarities so in the reviews i want it to do well but 5 stars or one star its not going to sound any different.

So ask yourself are you angry at the review or just the fact that its your amp they have down graded ?

now can any of the what hi fi team tell me is the pdp lx5090 still the best tv for pure picture quality and motion handling.

 

[Clare Newsome]

2cool:
now can any of the what hi fi team tell me is the pdp lx5090 still the best tv for pure picture quality and motion handling.

Yes - still hasn't been outperformed

 

[Anonymous]

Acciesboy:

Personally I am going to cling to the fact it is actually still a 5 star performer...as confirmed on p109 of the June magazine, despite being reviewed on p61 of the same mag and only getting 4 stars.

And would you believe the RX-V3900 doesn't appear at all in the July 2009 edition of the mag (surround amps & receivers on pp102-103)...I smell a CONSPIRACY

 

[Anonymous]

That can't be right. The RX-V3900 is only supposed to be replaced next year.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Mistake rather than conspiracy. Apologies, on behalf of our being-put-in-the-stocks-as-we-speak BG editor, for that....

 

[professorhat]

Don't listen to her folks - it's a cover up!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Hi guys, any chance being able to read the original review of the Pioneer sc-lx81, as I threw my copy out when I was really unwell?

Its the one with the Pioneer bdp-lx71 being reviewed at the same time. Many thanks. Could you email me a copy or something. Or I will pay for the mag again?

Cheers Gel.

 

[bigboss]

Best to email them. Here's the online version:

https://www.whathifi.com/pioneer/sc-lx81/review

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Good idea BB. Cheers.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Best to email them. Here's the online version:

https://www.whathifi.com/pioneer/sc-lx81/review

 

[chebby]

Hi guys, any chance being able to read the original review of the Pioneer sc-lx81, as I threw my copy out when I was really unwell?

Its the one with the Pioneer bdp-lx71 being reviewed at the same time. Many thanks. Could you email me a copy or something. Or I will pay for the mag again?

Cheers Gel.

https://www.whathifi.com/pioneer/sc-lx81/review

From the same month ...

https://www.whathifi.com/pioneer/bdp-lx71/review