Pioneer Priced themselves out of the market?

[Alsone]

As a self confessed Pioneer fanboi (ever since the 427 series) I'm wondering if anyone else agrees that Pioneer may now priced themselves out of the market.

Whilst other manufacturers, notably Panasonic have been reducing prices, Pioneer have prices stayed firm, refusing to budge.

However, with Richer Sounds now selling brand new Panasonic 42PZ70's for £750, I have to wonder if Pioneer have priced themselves out of the market.

Personally I've been on the verge of buying a Pioneer 428 Kuro for some time now and wouldn't have considered any other tv or brand.

I don't mind paying a premium of £200-300 for a Pioneer knowing its the best, but how can anyone justify a £1,050 difference (the average price of the Pionner appears to be around £1,800 at most stockists)?

That now means the Pioneer 428 is 2.5 times the price of its nearest rival the Panasonic 42PZ70, a whopping £1,050 price difference on 2 very similar performing tv's with the Pioneer still only being HD ready! Thas a lot of money for a marginally deeper black!

I have to say that personally, as a complete Pioneer fanboi and someone who a few months ago wouldn't have even considered another tv, the 428 to me is far too expensive and I now can't even possibly contemplate it given the huge difference between it and the Pansonic at £750.

To me Pioneer have priced themselves out of the market entirely. Anyone else agree?

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Alsone"]To me Pioneer have priced themselves out of the market entirely. Anyone else agree?[/quote]

Only if people stop buying Pioneer TVs. And there's not much sign of that happening...

 

[Alsone]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]

[quote user="Alsone"]To me Pioneer have priced themselves out of the market entirely. Anyone else agree?[/quote]

Only if people stop buying Pioneer TVs. And there's not much sign of that happening...

[/quote]

Well its stopped me and I wouldn't have bought anything other than Pioneer.

Of course I'm only 1 person but its unlikely I'm alone. Over on the High Def forums loads of people say they would buy Pioneer but for the price (most buy Panasonic in the end) and this was before the RS's price cut.

 

[Andy Clough]

I guess if you want the best, it's a case of paying for the best...

 

[Anonymous]

I've only just moved from CRT. If you change your tv frequently, then the Pioneer is expensive. If, like me, you intend to keep it for a good while (when OLED becomes the next Kuro!!) then the Pioneer becomes something of a bargain.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Pioneer did say at the Kuro launch in the Spring that it was tired of playing the cut-price game and wanted instead to put some clear water between itself and the rivals in quality and price terms.

And of course, if we didn't think it was worth every penny, the 428XD wouldn't have won the Product of the Year Award.

 

[Anonymous]

The 'Best! is purely subjective

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with comments above pioneer is killing themselves. I am hunt for a new TV but not considering Pioneer purely because the extra premium doesn't justify slightly better picture as other manufactuers are cathing up fast.

Take the example of AppleIpod why it selling like hot cake its company which is also style conscious and build stuff for people who admire and can afford it. Take a look at their pricing during last two years.

I am sure Pioneer will realise it soon.

 

[Andrew Everard]

You know what? I have an inkling Pioneer will continue ploughing the 'reassurimgly expensive' furrow...

 

[morty5]

Are you sure that Richer Sounds are selling brand new Panasonic 42PZ70's for £750. I can't see anything on their web site that quotes that price, or any mention at all about that model. Any info would be great as I am on the verge of buying that model. Many thanks

 

[Alsone]

[quote user="morty5"]

Are you sure that Richer Sounds are selling brand new Panasonic 42PZ70's for £750. I can't see anything on their web site that quotes that price, or any mention at all about that model. Any info would be great as I am on the verge of buying that model. Many thanks

[/quote]

Hi Morty,

Here's a link:

http://www.richersounds.co.uk/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=PANA-TH42PX70PED

Its £799.95 including speakers and pedestal stand.

 

[Alsone]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]

Pioneer did say at the Kuro launch in the Spring that it was tired of playing the cut-price game and wanted instead to put some clear water between itself and the rivals in quality and price terms.

And of course, if we didn't think it was worth every penny, the 428XD wouldn't have won the Product of the Year Award.

[/quote]

I don't think anyone's questioning its quality Andrew. However, there's a big difference now between the price in the spring and the price now.

Back in the spring the Panasonic PZ70 was around £1,500 (typical dealer price) if my memory servers me correctly. Now its 1/2 that, but the Pioneer has remained the same. Meaning a £300 gap has now become a £1,000 gap.

There's a point beyond which additonal picture quality no longer becomes worth the premium to be payed and for myself and many others that point has been reached.

If the Panasonic PZ70 wasn't a quality tv, then there wuld be some justification but as your own reviews testify, its one hell of a tv.

 

[christotten]

[quote user="Alsone"][quote user="morty5"]

Are you sure that Richer Sounds are selling brand new Panasonic 42PZ70's for £750. I can't see anything on their web site that quotes that price, or any mention at all about that model. Any info would be great as I am on the verge of buying that model. Many thanks

[/quote]

Hi Morty,

Here's a link:

http://www.richersounds.co.uk/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=PANA-TH42PX70PED

Its £799.95 including speakers and pedestal stand.

[/quote]

That's the 720p PX70 and not the 1080p PZ70...

 

[Anonymous]

Pioneer make the best Plasma Displays: Perhaps

Value for Money: No!

Rip off Prices: Yes!

Better Value for money £ for £ elsewhere: Most Definitely!

 

[Anonymous]

Pioneer can be picked up for £1500 with a 5 year warranty now. Now you cant really call that expensive???

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Tallyho"]
Pioneer make the best Plasma Displays: Perhaps

Value for Money: No!

Rip off Prices: Yes!

Better Value for money £ for £ elsewhere: Most Definitely!

[/quote]

£ for £ Pioneer is the Mohammed Ali of TVs!

 

[Anonymous]

As I said. It is only expensive if you change your set every 2-3 years.

Rip off ? Something can only be rip off if you buy it and find that it was not as promised for the price. If the Pioneer turned out to be c**p then that would be a rip off.

The best tv costs the most. So what ? Panasonic have economy of scale on their side. They will always be able to produce screens cheaper than the likes of pioneer.

I did not notice anybody saying that the Panasonic PX's were rip offs when they first were released.

 

[JoelSim]

Pioneer are protecting their brand, and at the same time ensuring that they are not seen a discounters in the same way that you don't see Cyrus and Arcam gear on mail order websites. More integrity means more margin and a longer-term brand strategy. Of course this only works if the products live up to the hype, which they seem to at the moment. The difficult time for Pioneer will only happen once the products are not the market leaders any more. BMW didn't get where they are today by discounting their cars every time Peugeot brought out a new model - quite the opposite, and thus ensured they are seen as a premium brand.

The very fact that you are complaining about this means that you really really want a Pioneer. They have created a desire in you.

 

[Alsone]

[quote user="christotten"] That's the 720p PX70 and not the 1080p PZ70...[/quote]

You are right my mistake. It is cheap though if you shop around. Several places have it less than £1,000.

 

[Hems]

Ginder, which store is offering that deal?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="JoelSim"]
The very fact that you are complaining about this means that you really really want a Pioneer. They have created a desire in you.
[/quote]

What a load of old Tosh! (making no reference to Toshiba of course). I could quite easily afford a top of the range Pioneer.....that however isn't the issue here...........Instead after having spent months auditioning TV's without actually giving birth to any of them, it came down to a humble Samsung Plasma PS42Q97HDX...and oh what a TV this is too. HD on it is fantastic and as for SD......just plug in a normal SKYBOX and you're off and running.

Now.....am I going to flaming well sit in my lab all day long like so many people and scrutinize the very fibre of a Pioneer Vs whatever or am I going to get on with the job in hand and say to myself............Well, yes that Pioneer is actually a fantastic TV....but it's £1,800 compared with my Samsung which I got for a trifle £800...which is also a great TV and really I can't tell the difference in picture quality between the two without pressing my nose up against each display and viewing them with a microscope.

For me the answer was clear and by saving £1,000 in the process enables me to buy other add ons like good cable, DVD player etc and still have some change left over.

Therefore the only desire that Pioneer have created in me is that not to waste my money on something that as far as I'm concerned is really not worth the extra expense over what I already have with which I am thoroughly happy!

 

[Anonymous]

The only Tosh is that comment. Tallyho has sulked about Pioneer ever since the first postings were made. I suspect the Samsung was auditioned before the Pioneer became widely available or it was over his budget. £1000 for a DVD player and some cable ? Now that is what I would call a rip off .

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="david1997"]
The only Tosh is that comment. Tallyho has sulked about Pioneer ever since the first postings were made. I suspect the Samsung was auditioned before the Pioneer became widely available or it was over his budget. £1000 for a DVD player and some cable ? Now that is what I would call a rip off .

[/quote]

Unfortunately your not comprehending what I've said

The £1,000 left did/would not all go on a DVD player and some cable-Part of it did and I still have a bit leftover-the implication wasn't that I would indeed even need to blow £1,000 on a DVD and cable...far from it as I'm a bit more cautious than perhaps you might be in this respect. As I said I've auditioned TV's for many months now and I was looking at Pioneers long before the Samsung model I eventually bought came out starting with the old 7th generation 4270XD and 427XD Pioneers of last year.....Even then I just couldn't justify spending £1,500 on a TV. As for sulking, why would I need to sulk especially when I can easily afford a 50inch Pioneer for that matter at £3,000.00 and If I was going to buy a 50incher anyway I would have in fact gone for the Samsung PS50Q97HDX for £1,000.00.

At the end of the day...each to their own old boy. I have also said that I do agree that Pioneer TV's are great but I also sincerely believe from what I've seen, that they are not significantly greater than some other TV's out there right now or to that which I currently have and that is an opinion to which I am fully entitled and by which I stick.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Tallyho"]
[quote user="JoelSim"]

The very fact that you are complaining about this means that you really really want a Pioneer. They have created a desire in you.

[/quote]

What a load of old Tosh! (making no reference to Toshiba of course). I could quite easily afford a top of the range Pioneer.....that however isn't the issue here...........Instead after having spent months auditioning TV's without actually giving birth to any of them, it came down to a humble Samsung Plasma PS42Q97HDX...and oh what a TV this is too. HD on it is fantastic and as for SD......just plug in a normal SKYBOX and you're off and running.

Now.....am I going to flaming well sit in my lab all day long like so many people and scrutinize the very fibre of a Pioneer Vs whatever or am I going to get on with the job in hand and say to myself............Well, yes that Pioneer is actually a fantastic TV....but it's £1,800 compared with my Samsung which I got for a trifle £800...which is also a great TV and really I can't tell the difference in picture quality between the two without pressing my nose up against each display and viewing them with a microscope.

For me the answer was clear and by saving £1,000 in the process enables me to buy other add ons like good cable, DVD player etc and still have some change left over.

Therefore the only desire that Pioneer have created in me is that not to waste my money on something that as far as I'm concerned is really not worth the extra expense over what I already have with which I am thoroughly happy!

[/quote]

As long as you are happy fine, just because you do not understand, or can see the difference does not make the Pio overpriced.

As you put it for £800 the Sammy is great value, but is not even close in performance to the Pio, something you cant see. There is nothing wrong in that.

But it is wrong to say that is a waste of money, your priorietes and expectations are clearly different to others.

Now above I have not said the sammy's picture is poor, the fact that IMHO I think it is, is irrelevent.

The Pios are selling like hot cakes and thier 3.5k and 5k sets dealers cant get enough of them to satisfy demand.

But I have not wasted my money, I could say you have by buying a poor set, but I'm not. If it was expensive and poor, then it would not sell, but it is, in droves.

Glad you are happy with your £800 set clearly it satifies your level of expectaion, I am delighted with my 3.5k set, untill the next better one comes out, but thats my choice its a hobby.

I have mates who follow their footy teams all over Europe, that to me is a waste of money, but its not to them, so I repect that.

 

[Anonymous]

You are entitled to your opinions and views as indeed I am.This neither makes me, or anyone else, right nor wrong. I respect your views