Philips 55PFL8008 or something else? Confused.

[Oldboy]

Hello all,

As some of you already know i'm looking at getting a bigger screen size this year and want a 55 inch lcd/led to replace my Sony 46HX853 and after the recent supertest in this months magazine I have been looking in greater depth at the Philips 55PFL8008 after it received such a good review in the test and my previous choice the Samsung UE55F8000 got demoted to a four star rating.

Upon further research it seems other reviews don't agree with the WHF review and have pointed to backlight clouding and a complete lack of any changes to the panel (Samsung made PSA display) or 3d performance from last years 8007 model, infact it would seem that any changes are limited to just cosmetic ones and the inclusion of being able to display content from devices such as phones and tablets. Poor performance in dark conditions and a washed out picture when viewing off axis add to the negatives of this tv although where viewing angles are concerned it's nowhere near the issues faced with the Sony W905.

I'm getting really confused as I can't find a single retailer in my area with one of these Philips tvs to demo and i'm quickly running out of a 55 inch tv that I would be happy with and am now considering keeping my 46HX853. Am I right to look at some of these other more negative reviews as being accurate or should I trust the review in WHF? Of course I want to demo the tv for myself when that is possible but for now the comments made in this review:

http://www.digitalversus.com/tv-television/philips-55pfl8008-p15736/test.html

versus how positive the WHF review was seems very much at odds with each other making choosing my next 55 inch set very difficult, infact just getting a list together to demo is difficult.

If it wasn't for my previous bad experiences with Panasonic plasma tvs then I would of course go for a 55VT65 but I have serious concerns over gaming on another panny plasma as I had issues with this on all of my previous plasmas from them, being quite a big gamer I don't want to go through all the issues I had last time with extreme IR, one case of image burn and a weird clouding effect.

Are there any more decent 55 ich lcd/led tvs yet to come this year that might be worthy of consideration? So far I've just got the Philips and Samsung tvs on my demo list so any advice or info would be greatly received, thnk you.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

That is a tough one! :?

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Could see what these say about the Philips too:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1365660097

They should review it soon.

 

[rocketrazor]

Hi oldboy,

do we know what the Phillips input lag is like? This might come into play as a keen gamer and WHF reviews don't generally detail input lag.

I've been watching the 50" and 55" inch tv scene also since I had issues with my gt50. For a little bit wider i can get a 55" led tv while the 55" plasmas are just to big, the 55vt65 is an extra 9 cm's wider than the Sony or Phillips. Like yourself I'm worried with the pannys and the recent history of issues with the set, but this years model's do appeal to me and I might end up taking a punt on the Panasonic again ray:

 

[rocketrazor]

Just read the review in the link, doh.....that details input lag

 

[Oldboy]

Could see what these say about the Philips too:

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1365660097

They should review it soon.

Thanks gel I will keep an eye out for a review here

 

[Oldboy]

Hi oldboy,

do we know what the Phillips input lag is like? This might come into play as a keen gamer and WHF reviews don't generally detail input lag.

I've been watching the 50" and 55" inch tv scene also since I had issues with my gt50. For a little bit wider i can get a 55" led tv while the 55" plasmas are just to big, the 55vt65 is an extra 9 cm's wider than the Sony or Phillips. Like yourself I'm worried with the pannys and the recent history of issues with the set, but this years model's do appeal to me and I might end up taking a punt on the Panasonic again ray:

Sounds like we are in a similar position here but i'm far more reluctant to go back to a Panasonic plasma than you by the sounds of it, I had far too many issues just getting one that worked correctly in the first place not to mention the various issues after purchase so I just can't bring myself to give one another chance no matter how good the reviews are. That is what caught me out last time, great reviews, looked great in the showroom and even better on paper but in the real world it just didn't serve me well with awful IR problems no matter what I done and I always had a feeling of dread using it for gaming just wondering what images would be left behind or what issue would arise and such I just can't go back to panny plasmas.

In stark contrast my purchase of the Sony 46HX853 has been a polar opposite, no issues from day one and still on the first tv...all I want is a 55 inch tv of equal quality picture and reliability but that seems very hard to acheive this year. Of course I will keep looking and audition as many sets as possible but right now I wouldn't part with my current Sony until i've seen the Philips in action and more sets are reviewed and released. Are there any other Sont tvs at 55 inch due for release this year that might be worth considering I wonder :?

 

[rocketrazor]

There is the model down, w805 that has a different screen so the off axis viewing won't be so bad but the input lag will be worse. Can't find a good review though yet.

how did you find the change from plasma to led. I watched the football the other day on a friends samsung 7000 series from last year and wasn't that impressed. Ironically i taped the game and watched some again on the plasma and although I have the vertical banding, aside from that the plasma picture I thought was leaps and bounds better. Also so some material on a friends Phillips LCD the other day which I thought was good when I first saw it, it now looks awful compared to my plasma. I really dont know what to do :?

 

[Oldboy]

Hmmm will look out for reviews of the 805 and see how it fares, there is also an 807 model but there seem to be no difference between the two and surprisingly they both use passive 3D tech which stinks of LG sourced panels which haven't fared well in the past.

I found the switch to LED painless but then I got lucky and bought one of the the best LED screens I have ever seen. At the time I got it I waxed lyrical about it but I remain very happy with it indeed. After my panny plasma I was expecting to have similar feelings to those you experienced when viewing the Samsung and Philips sets but that proved unfounded as my HX853 is superb and stacks up very well next to my old plasma. It has superior contrast, a sharper image and inky blacks...of course black insight isn't quite as good but it's very close and I don't feel short changed at all, add realistic skin tones and colours and an uncanny knack with motion and it's hard to fault.

I thought it would be jarring to go to LED but once set up and calibrated carefully I've been completely sold and all memeroies of those awful issues I had with panny plasmas have gone and I don't miss the plasma screen at all, of course nothing is perfect but any issues are minor. In a dark room the Sony loses it's black levels slightly so it can't compete with plasma here, it's a bit washed out off axis and the best PQ is front right in front of it and some minor DSE but none of it is an issue for me. I don't view in a dark room, sofa is face on to the tv so viewing angle not an issue and the DSE is never an issue i'm drawn to.

I do crave a bigger screen though and after seeing the 55VT65 in action my mind did start thinking about returning to plasma BUT I would be very careful this time and go to the likes of John Lewis to purchase it so I could be sure I could return it easily without hassle if it turned out to be a story of same again this year. I would be far less patient too, two sets and i'm out of there to get a refund or something else but most of all I just don't want to go through all that again.

So confused right now :wall:

 

[rocketrazor]

I think the only difference is the colour of the frame, 805 is black, 807 is silver/grey

 

[Oldboy]

Good spot! :clap:

 

[rocketrazor]

Cheers,

hdtvtest gave your tv 32ms input lag, digital versus gave the Phillips 33ms, however they have a 10ms difference for the vt65 hdtvtest at 22 and DV at 32. If there is 10ms difference it might cause an issue with the Phillips having to high an input lag at 43ms?

 

[Oldboy]

I've not seen a figure of 43ms quoted for the Philips anywhere but if that's true then I couldn't live with that I don't think. At 33ms it's pretty much the same as my current tv so it wouldn't be an issue, now i'm wondering if the Philips has a game mode and what that does for the lag input figures? My Sony is very noticeable between the game mode and any other mode, COD is much more responsive and as I use a dedicated Fanatec CSR wheel and pedals set up with a Gameracer driving seat rig for driving games input lag is a concern as I don't want to go backwards from my current tv.

Questions, questions, questions and yet more questions...I think only auditions are going to weed out the weak from the strong here plus some feedback from owners. Good job I can bide my time and make an informed decision, I'm looking forward to some feedback of how the 55VT65 performs in the real world as any issues would certainly put me off. Has the 50hz bug been laid to rest once and for all do you know??

Many thanks for your input rocketrazor as it's certainly helping me consider all the angles :cheers:

 

[rocketrazor]

46" review here

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Philips-8000-Series-PFL8008-46PFL8008-55PFL8008-42PFL8008-42-46-55-Inch-LED-LCD-3D-TV-Review_520/Review.html

they say the input lag might cause an issue for serious gamers, 50ms

 

[Oldboy]

Many thanks for the link

So after a read through two things concern me, the clouding and input lag. That's the second review to mention the clouding visible in dark scenes and is starting to really concern me, the input lag is mentioned as high but no figures are given as to the actual amount of lag but in every other respect it seems a really good tv and I will audition it asap.

They did mention a forthcoming 9000 series later in the year though so perhaps this will eliminate some of the issues in the 8008 such as the clouding as it seems they think it will carry full array backlighting, I will wait with interest to see if it improves on the 8008 but I would expect the price to be high if it has full array backlighting. Again it's mentioned that the backlighting is a bit of a lottery so it may be possible to get a good example of a 8008 but a potential 9000 series would peak my interest if the price wasn't too high.

Will look out for stock of the 8008 to arrive then get out there and audition for myself, for now it remains on the list.

 

[rocketrazor]

Input lag is on the 2nd tab, although they also give the vt65 42ms for input lag. It's certainly worth an audition

 

[Anonymous]

PFL8008 has viewing angle problem according to digital versus website.......well I never......oops! Hey what Hi Fi should you not deduct a star in your review....as you did with the Sony. >)

Viewing angles:

Philips 1.5 out of 5 score. Sony gets 1.6 out of 5
:roll:

You can't trust any one review OK.....professional bias is inevitable....but when you read a whole lot of them.....they do not sync.....creating confusion. :rant:

I read this entire thread and refrained from commenting till now.......does any one really know what they are talking about?? :read: If the pros can't agree???

Oldboy, ....read the professional review you like......ignore what you don't like as I did then choose your TV Or better still keep your HX 853

I am having a great day reading this thread......keep the points coming in.....sorry trying not to gloat

 

[Deleted member 2457]

PFL8008 has viewing angle problem according to digital versus website.......well I never......oops! Hey what Hi Fi should you not deduct a star in your review....as you did with the Sony. >)

Viewing angles:

Philips 1.5 out of 5 score. Sony gets 1.6 out of 5
:roll:

You can't trust any one review OK.....professional bias is inevitable....but when you read a whole lot of them.....they do not sync.....creating confusion. :rant:

I read this entire thread and refrained from commenting till now.......does any one really know what they are talking about?? :read: If the pros can't agree???

Oldboy, ....read the professional review you like......ignore what you don't like as I did then choose your TV Or better still keep your HX 853

I am having a great day reading this thread......keep the points coming in.....sorry trying not to gloat

Talk to the hand! :hand:

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I think I would purchase the Panasonic VT65 and this time recommend buying it from John Lewis, that way if you get any issues you know that they will sort it.

 

[Oldboy]

PFL8008 has viewing angle problem according to digital versus website.......well I never......oops! Hey what Hi Fi should you not deduct a star in your review....as you did with the Sony. >)

Viewing angles:

Philips 1.5 out of 5 score. Sony gets 1.6 out of 5
:roll:

You can't trust any one review OK.....professional bias is inevitable....but when you read a whole lot of them.....they do not sync.....creating confusion. :rant:

I read this entire thread and refrained from commenting till now.......does any one really know what they are talking about?? :read: If the pros can't agree???

Oldboy, ....read the professional review you like......ignore what you don't like as I did then choose your TV Or better still keep your HX 853

I am having a great day reading this thread......keep the points coming in.....sorry trying not to gloat

I had been waiting for your input after you bought the W905, as you know it has gone on my audition list after your comments but I must admit I still have concerns over the viewing angle but it's certainly not being ruled out.

As I said earlier in the thread it's so hard to get a good understanding of the relative pros and cons from reviews as they vary so wildly, WHF made no mention of a limited viewing angle for the Philips like they did with the Sony for example but as you point out digital versus points to it having the same issue. All I can do is keep looking at the various reviews and know the pros and cons of each set before I audition them and make my own mind up from there, yes reviewers can have an agenda which is why in general I pay more attention to WHF reviews than any other source as they have never let me down...any kit I have bought based on a review by WHF has left me very happy. Perhaps I should stick with it and trust them when it comes to the next tv I buy.

The ideal situation for me would be to just have a 55 inch HX853 but I haven't had the money available until very recently and now you simply can't buy one new but I was expecting the 2013 sets to be better than they seem to be, so far it's not been a great year which is why the 55VT65 is very much on my radar now as it does seem like the tv to beat this year but my reluctance to buy another Panasonic plasma remains.

Going to give it more time to decide what i'm going to do and just audition 4 or 5 tvs and take it from there

 

[Oldboy]

I think I would purchase the Panasonic VT65 and this time recommend buying it from John Lewis, that way if you get any issues you know that they will sort it.

That's very much on my mind gel but i'm so reluctant to go through all that again...sets going backwards and forwards, being without tv for weeks on end etc like last time. My trust in Panasonic to deliver a tv that works correctly first time is non existant as you know but then I keep hoping things may have changed this year, right now the VT65 seems the logical choice but previous experience keeps ringing alarm bells in my head.

If I were to get a VT65 it would be through John Lewis as I would feel comfortable I could get any issues resolved quickly with no hassle but i'm going to bide my time for now, might even save some money as prices fall over time.

 

[Anonymous]

PFL8008 has viewing angle problem according to digital versus website.......well I never......oops! Hey what Hi Fi should you not deduct a star in your review....as you did with the Sony. >)

Viewing angles:

Philips 1.5 out of 5 score. Sony gets 1.6 out of 5
:roll:

You can't trust any one review OK.....professional bias is inevitable....but when you read a whole lot of them.....they do not sync.....creating confusion. :rant:

I read this entire thread and refrained from commenting till now.......does any one really know what they are talking about?? :read: If the pros can't agree???

Oldboy, ....read the professional review you like......ignore what you don't like as I did then choose your TV Or better still keep your HX 853

I am having a great day reading this thread......keep the points coming in.....sorry trying not to gloat

I had been waiting for your input after you bought the W905, as you know it has gone on my audition list after your comments but I must admit I still have concerns over the viewing angle but it's certainly not being ruled out.

As I said earlier in the thread it's so hard to get a good understanding of the relative pros and cons from reviews as they vary so wildly, WHF made no mention of a limited viewing angle for the Philips like they did with the Sony for example but as you point out digital versus points to it having the same issue. All I can do is keep looking at the various reviews and know the pros and cons of each set before I audition them and make my own mind up from there, yes reviewers can have an agenda which is why in general I pay more attention to WHF reviews than any other source as they have never let me down...any kit I have bought based on a review by WHF has left me very happy. Perhaps I should stick with it and trust them when it comes to the next tv I buy.

The ideal situation for me would be to just have a 55 inch HX853 but I haven't had the money available until very recently and now you simply can't buy one new but I was expecting the 2013 sets to be better than they seem to be, so far it's not been a great year which is why the 55VT65 is very much on my radar now as it does seem like the tv to beat this year but my reluctance to buy another Panasonic plasma remains.

Going to give it more time to decide what i'm going to do and just audition 4 or 5 tvs and take it from there

Oldboy,

The duff 55 inch LEDs TVs this year.....mmm....are the LG, and Panasonics using IPS PC panels.Ridiculously poor contrast levels!

There are no perfect TV especially with LED backlit ones. If backlight issues like DSE,Clouding, Patches and pooling of light worries you then the Samsung F8000/F8500 LEDs would be more favourable, Samsung cliamed they got those problems licked?

I am a gamer from the days of owing the LCD Z and W series of TVs Sony and so see no reason to change, I am loyal to my A/V brand as to my wet shaver. If you have been happy with theHX853 then Sony's W9 is even better. Don't get too bog down with the clouding issues from what digital versus have to say, as I know you are sensative to it from your post years ago when the clouding issue aflicted the W5000 series, lead to a star been docked from what Hi Fi reviews

FYI, one of the ways I tested the back light consistency of my W9 is to put a Hi res DSLR image of a full length person bathed in 'hair' light in pitch black background. I turned my room lights off to view the picture and behold it was perfect like in the studio.I did not see no clouding or patches of light in the black.The experience was better than on the HX853. Blacks were deepest of what is out there! Now that isn't the ultimate scientific test but to me it was my deciding test criteria. Now if I pause my BR player and screen goes black and see some uneven blackness that would not perturb me. The higher that backlight is cranked up(max) say in 3d in pause mode the more the unevenness can be seen. But I don't spent time viewing a black screen on pause so.....it is irrelevant to me.

Also bear in mind that the back light inconsistency or consistency will vary in every LED of what ever model or make. You could not audition each one till you are satified it is impractical.It is a bit of a lottery.

The Philips 8008 as you know is a copy of last years and is no five star TV, the back cover is plastic for a 2k TV???? Alleged poor viewing angles (proved by evidence),model looks are dull. The 9000 series is Philips top daddy TV with full array dimming and I respect that TV highly but it mucked up on 3D badly so it is not mentioned anymore.

The Samsung is your best bet! You get that LED feel to the picture but you know What Hi fi has very correctly talked down the sharpness and its contrast handling.

HDTV test say the 46 inch model is even better...oh god.....go over there and read that 46 inch review.

Finally, I could not buy a Panny Plasma due to fan noises,buzzing issues,image retention, customer service etc and having to get the best from it only in a dark room.Howard Hughes might have brough one. I need my day time TV viewing to be as good as night time.

 

[rocketrazor]

I'd be interested to know if what hi fi plan a review at all of the Sony 805a models. I believe it's a different panel so lag may be higher but the viewing angle could be better. It's also £1000 cheaper than the 905a which makes a huge difference to negotiating with the wife

 

[Anonymous]

I'd be interested to know if what hi fi plan a review at all of the Sony 805a models. I believe it's a different panel so lag may be higher but the viewing angle could be better. It's also £1000 cheaper than the 905a which makes a huge difference to negotiating with the wife

The W805 probably use the same variant panel as the W9 - made by Samsung...hahaha...what an irony....when is a Sony not a Samsung?

When I inspected the W8 in John Lewis the picture feed was a cracker!

Differences-

W8 has a less posh stand

Thicker plaster back,

No triluminous colours

Only 400hz motion

Passive glasseses - no simucast support

On the viewing angle....depends who(review) you ask and compare to what TV....we will have to see.??? But only if you can see it as an issue - it becames an issue - trust your eyes.

 

[Oldboy]

z058261,

I'm sure LG use their own in house panels for their tvs but I've no idea what panel varients they are using this year, Panasonic I have no idea about though but would presume they outsource them with the current plight of their tv division but I may be wrong about that.

I'm well aware there are no perfect tvs out there but all I want is one that is at least equal in performance to my HX853 but ideally even better as I take the step up to 55 inch. Backlight issues such as clouding, dse, Patching and pooling of light are not acceptable when you are looking at spending £2500 on a tv, it's a premium product and any such issues would be unacceptable to me and would see the tv returned as I view them as faults simply because I have seen so many sets without such issues at the budget end of the market. If i'm buying a premium tv then my expectations of it's performance rise from that of a midrange or budget model and so my tollerance of issues diminishes, surely that's just common sense??

As for Samsung I can say with great certainty that they definately haven't got rid of clouding in their premium LED tvs as far as i'm aware, last years ES8000 and 7000 range suffered from strong clouding as I auditioned both tvs before I settled on the HX853...infact it was so strong that it went beyond clouding and into strong rays of light in the corners which affected picture quality badly. I auditioned them several times at various retailers and never found one without the issue but the Sony HX853 had no such issues and so it will be something I look for very carefully when I audition the new Samsung tvs for this year.

I test backlight issues with a test disc of mine which gives you the chance to fill the screen with one colour at a time, white to test for banding, grey and black to test backlight etc but your suggestion is something I may well try out to see if it's a better test in the future. Right now I have 3 tvs on my audition list: Sony W905, Philips 8008 and Samsung F8000 and none of them will be ruled out until I see them all for myself although I remain sceptical that the Samsung will provide an even screen without backlight issues.

I have real concerns with Panasonic plasmas as I've been bitten badly so many times before and the issues I had have really put me off from going down that road again as I don't want to get caught in the endless cycle of returning faulty tvs, waiting for a replacement, being without a tv for weeks on end etc. I know the VT65 seems to be the tv to buy this year but as a gamer I would be reluctant to use it for either of my consoles which goes against the point of buying a tv in the first place so unless things have improved in that regard I won't be buying one.

I still remain confused but i'm hoping a bit of time spent waiting for all suitable tvs to come onto market along with some thorough research and auditioning will put me on the right track and make my mind up. Thanks very much for your input.