Phil Collins 2015 remasters

[MajorFubar]

I'm sure this will attract the usual anti Phil Collins diatribe from the haters, but I've been listening to some of the remasters via iTunes Music, specifically Face Value and No Jacket Required.

Ok first off let's get the obvious overwith, they are mastered with a slightly higher average volume than the original CDs, I haven't checked scientifically but I'd guess by about 3-4db. Which is actually quite conservative compared to some. They don't sound ridiculously in your face and smashed, and one could easily argue this is the level they would have been mastered at had the technolgy of the time (LPs) allowed it without sonic compromise.

But what I'm definitely impressed with, compared to my early-pressing CDs of the same albums, is that the overall sound quality is much improved. These are very clearly better captures from the analogue master tapes than the captures on my early CDs (I *think* NJR was analogue...FV certainly was). Better bass extension, better instrument separation, better layering, less treble roll off. "The Roof Is Leaking" has depth and subtleties I hadn't heard even on my vinyl copy. Compared to my original CDs, the life and energy has been returned, horns are less harsh on tracks such as "Behind The Lines", "Sussudio" and "Hand in hand" (though the latter is still a bit messy at the end...I guess it's just mixed that way), and the sound is just far better balanced across the audio spectrum. "Only You And I Know" and "I Don't Wanna Know" are still noisy bu**ers, but they always were.

It's not so often I recommend remasters, but if you are a fan, I'd recommend giving these a listen via your preferred streaming service and decide whether a purchase is in order. It's very likely I will buy these two.

If I have one disappointment it's that the FV Deluxe Edition does not include the very rare (on digital) 7" single version of "In The Air...". It's always been difficult to find it on CD (though I did find it eventually) and I feel this is a missed opportunity to give fans a 'definitive' digital copy of it.

 

[The_Lhc]

PHIL COLLINS?!?!?!

Ah, who am I kidding? I really want to hate him but I just find I can't, say what you like the guy's done some great tunes. I haven't yet succumbed to actually buying anything by him but I know it's only a matter of time, dammit.

 

[MajorFubar]

PHIL COLLINS?!?!?!

Ah, who am I kidding? I really want to hate him but I just find I can't, say what you like the guy's done some great tunes. I haven't yet succumbed to actually buying anything by him but I know it's only a matter of time, dammit.

Definitely worth a listen to these LHC

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Have these new remasters managed to eradicate the awful high pitched whine which seemed to plague all of his recordings?

 

[keeper of the quays]

Have these new remasters managed to eradicate the awful high pitched whine which seemed to plague all of his recordings?

that would be his singing! Good review major, I'll never hear these remasters as these haven't been released on 78? In this instance a 78 player is a godsend..

 

[matthewpiano]

I've been collecting these on CD as they've been released, and I've got the box to house them all.

I agree Major, that they sound substantially better than the older releases, and it has struck me how consistently good and interesting his music has been. I'm a big fan of Genesis (all periods), and these new PC solo remasters have given me opportunity to re-evaluate his solo albums. There are some very good songs in there, and I think the bashing he gets is unfair. He's a talented producer too, as shown by his work with John Martyn, Eric Clapton, and Frida Lyngstad. Only 2 more left to fill the box!

 

[unhalfbricking]

How refreshing to hear somone say that they have enjoyed recent remasters! All I ever read on the Steve Hoffman music forum is this orthodoxy that the original CD release (usually from the 1980s) always sounds best and all subsequent remasters are inferior. The reason they cite for this is that remasters are deemed to add extra bass / treble / compression / noise reduction to the original master thus 'defiling' the true sound and making them unpleasant to listen to.

In my experience remasters do vary, but the best ones can really add your appreciation of a favourite album. I'm sorry to say that in the case of my thirty-or-so favourite albums I often buy more than one release and establish a 'go to' version which sounds best on my system. Last night I was listening to the 2003 Rhino remaster (hated on Hoffman) of 'Close to the edge' by Yes and it fair blew my socks off! Sounded perfect. Hearing all sorts of new things; the rasp on Bill Bruford's snare drum -- wow! I'm glad you're having a similar experience with your Phil Collins remasters!

 

[matthewpiano]

unhalfbricking, have you seen that a new remaster of Everyone Is Everybody Else is being released in June? It's a 3CD deluxe set. The first disc is a new remaster of the album, the second disc is a new stereo remix of the album, and the 3rd disc is a DVD with a 5.1 surround mix of the album. A similar reissue of Gone To Earth is being released at the same time.

 

[unhalfbricking]

unhalfbricking, have you seen that a new remaster of Everyone Is Everybody Else is being released in June? It's a 3CD deluxe set. The first disc is a new remaster of the album, the second disc is a new stereo remix of the album, and the 3rd disc is a DVD with a 5.1 surround mix of the album. A similar reissue of Gone To Earth is being released at the same time.

Thanks for the heads-up! This new release is especially interesting because I don't currently own a CD copy of the album. I bought it on vinyl back in about 1978 (and subsequently played it to death), but for some reason when I sold all my vinyl about ten years ago, I never replaced it on CD. According to Amazon this pretty comprehensive new release squeaks in at a penny under twenty quid. Interesting!

 

[Infiniteloop]

Very interesting Major. - And so brave of you to recommend it.

I've always been a big fan of Genesis and Phil C. - I've never felt that he deserves the derision he attracts from some quarters. I guess some blokes just aren't that as in touch with their feminine side as they feel comfortable in admitting.

 

[BigH]

Very interesting Major. - And so brave of you to recommend it.

I've always been a big fan of Genesis and Phil C. - I've never felt that he deserves the derision he attracts from some quarters. I guess some blokes just aren't that as in touch with their feminine side as they feel comfortable in admitting.

Don't really understand your comment. Its probably the direction Genesis/Collins went after the early Genesis albums, I certainly lost interest after Wind and Wuthering. But I know people who don't like the early Genesis only the later more pop stuff.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

One question I would like to ask is that Phil Colin's is a good drummer but when I play say invisible touch album the drums sound like a drum machine so is he playing any drums in this albums ?

 

[BigH]

One question I would like to ask is that Phil Colin's is a good drummer but when I play say invisible touch album the drums sound like a drum machine so is he playing any drums in this albums ?

I think he was a good drummer but by then he probably was more singer than drummer and yes there are drum machines on that album.

 

[MajorFubar]

How refreshing to hear somone say that they have enjoyed recent remasters! All I ever read on the Steve Hoffman music forum is this orthodoxy that the original CD release (usually from the 1980s) always sounds best and all subsequent remasters are inferior. The reason they cite for this is that remasters are deemed to add extra bass / treble / compression / noise reduction to the original master thus 'defiling' the true sound and making them unpleasant to listen to.

The real truth is it's not so clear cut and there's a lot of variation in quality. As an example, 'Rumours' often gets reeled out as a lesson in how good an LP can sound, but certainly the CD version of it that I posses is nothing special at all and it is comfortably bettered by my brother's 1970's LP of the same album. But the DVD-A version of it from 2002 is superb, easily on par with the LP. There's no valid reason why my CD shouldn't sound as good, other than laziness on behalf of the mastering team.

Give me access to first-gen master tapes and a nicely tuned ATR 102, and compared to some of the worst-sounding CDs out there, I reckon I could make better A-D transfers in my bedroom with my Macbook Pro and a £200 USB audio interface.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

How refreshing to hear somone say that they have enjoyed recent remasters! All I ever read on the Steve Hoffman music forum is this orthodoxy that the original CD release (usually from the 1980s) always sounds best and all subsequent remasters are inferior. The reason they cite for this is that remasters are deemed to add extra bass / treble / compression / noise reduction to the original master thus 'defiling' the true sound and making them unpleasant to listen to.

The real truth is it's not so clear cut and there's a lot of variation in quality. As an example, 'Rumours' often gets reeled out as a lesson in how good an LP can sound, but certainly the CD version of it that I posses is nothing special at all and it is comfortably bettered by my brother's 1970's LP of the same album. But the DVD-A version of it from 2002 is superb, easily on par with the LP. There's no valid reason why my CD shouldn't sound as good, other than laziness on behalf of the mastering team.

Give me access to first-gen master tapes and a nicely tuned ATR 102, and compared to some of the worst-sounding CDs out there, I reckon I could make better A-D transfers in my bedroom with my Macbook Pro and a £200 USB audio interface.

I like fleetwood Mac rumours is a good album I thought it sounded ok on cd as well as all there other albums same goes for pink floyd albums they are well recorded . But I would of thought by now there would be a deluxe version of rumours by now and maybe it's been remastered ?

 

[knaithrover]

I am open to every genre of music and love all kinds of stuff from all eras, really struggle with Phil Collins, Michael Jackson, Sting and Bon Jovi though - All huge in the 80's, it must be that corporate greedy overly polished thing which really really turns me off..

 

[MajorFubar]

I like fleetwood Mac rumours is a good album I thought it sounded ok on cd as well as all there other albums same goes for pink floyd albums they are well recorded . But I would of thought by now there would be a deluxe version of rumours by now and maybe it's been remastered ?

Not sure and tbh I haven't looked. With Floyd, I only have have two albums on CD: one is the 1994 remaster of The Wall, which some purists claim is already too compressed compared to the original CD, but IMO it sounds excellent. The other is the ubiquitous DSotM, of which I have two versions, one is a copy I bought in 1988 or thereabouts and the other is the remaster from 2011. Both are lousy compared to the original LP IMO. I understand the SA-CD and multichannel versions are supposed to be really good, though I haven't heard any.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

How refreshing to hear somone say that they have enjoyed recent remasters! All I ever read on the Steve Hoffman music forum is this orthodoxy that the original CD release (usually from the 1980s) always sounds best and all subsequent remasters are inferior. The reason they cite for this is that remasters are deemed to add extra bass / treble / compression / noise reduction to the original master thus 'defiling' the true sound and making them unpleasant to listen to.

The real truth is it's not so clear cut and there's a lot of variation in quality. As an example, 'Rumours' often gets reeled out as a lesson in how good an LP can sound, but certainly the CD version of it that I posses is nothing special at all and it is comfortably bettered by my brother's 1970's LP of the same album. But the DVD-A version of it from 2002 is superb, easily on par with the LP. There's no valid reason why my CD shouldn't sound as good, other than laziness on behalf of the mastering team.

Give me access to first-gen master tapes and a nicely tuned ATR 102, and compared to some of the worst-sounding CDs out there, I reckon I could make better A-D transfers in my bedroom with my Macbook Pro and a £200 USB audio interface.

I like fleetwood Mac rumours is a good album I thought it sounded ok on cd as well as all there other albums same goes for pink floyd albums they are well recorded . But I would of thought by now there would be a deluxe version of rumours by now and maybe it's been remastered ?

There are lots of different versions of Rumours, probably all sound different, you can't just say the cd sounds ok, which one? There are over 30 cds, some 3 dics sets, 1 box set at least. On vinyl seem to be over 100 different pressings, the 45rpm are meant to be among the best but not cheap. Yes both Rumour and WYWH recent remasters are said to be good. I usual go for the older cds unless the remaster is better. Some of the early cds were not well done, Jethro Tull would be one example, the recent Steve Wilson remasters are much better. The Who is another example, I don't think there has been a good remastering of Who's Next yet apart from the Steve Hoffman one but thats hard to come by, some Canadian version has it apparently. Some remasters are bad though, look at the Doors which was remixed and sounds to me dreadful and many others have complained. So its worth checking out the best versions, Steve Hoffman forum can be useful.

without looking at the cd of rumours that I have I brought it in the early 1990s so not sure if it's a good copy or not but I have been looking around to see what new versions have come out but noticed a lot of deluxe CD sets like pink floyd wish you were here and division bell both of this sets come with 6-7 cds loaded with extra unreleased material but very expensive around £70 for all of this extras but kind of hoping that they would be remastered from the master tapes but not sure on this

 

[BigH]

How refreshing to hear somone say that they have enjoyed recent remasters! All I ever read on the Steve Hoffman music forum is this orthodoxy that the original CD release (usually from the 1980s) always sounds best and all subsequent remasters are inferior. The reason they cite for this is that remasters are deemed to add extra bass / treble / compression / noise reduction to the original master thus 'defiling' the true sound and making them unpleasant to listen to.

The real truth is it's not so clear cut and there's a lot of variation in quality. As an example, 'Rumours' often gets reeled out as a lesson in how good an LP can sound, but certainly the CD version of it that I posses is nothing special at all and it is comfortably bettered by my brother's 1970's LP of the same album. But the DVD-A version of it from 2002 is superb, easily on par with the LP. There's no valid reason why my CD shouldn't sound as good, other than laziness on behalf of the mastering team.

Give me access to first-gen master tapes and a nicely tuned ATR 102, and compared to some of the worst-sounding CDs out there, I reckon I could make better A-D transfers in my bedroom with my Macbook Pro and a £200 USB audio interface.

I like fleetwood Mac rumours is a good album I thought it sounded ok on cd as well as all there other albums same goes for pink floyd albums they are well recorded . But I would of thought by now there would be a deluxe version of rumours by now and maybe it's been remastered ?

There are lots of different versions of Rumours, probably all sound different, you can't just say the cd sounds ok, which one? There are over 30 cds, some 3 dics sets, 1 box set at least. On vinyl seem to be over 100 different pressings, the 45rpm are meant to be among the best but not cheap. Yes both Rumour and WYWH recent remasters are said to be good. I usual go for the older cds unless the remaster is better. Some of the early cds were not well done, Jethro Tull would be one example, the recent Steve Wilson remasters are much better. The Who is another example, I don't think there has been a good remastering of Who's Next yet apart from the Steve Hoffman one but thats hard to come by, some Canadian version has it apparently. Some remasters are bad though, look at the Doors which was remixed and sounds to me dreadful and many others have complained. So its worth checking out the best versions, Steve Hoffman forum can be useful. My lp is pretty poor, maybe a bad pressing, my cd (WB 256 344)is not that great either. The Target German 1984 version cd is meant to be about the best but its about £50 used, it has high DR rating of 15.

 

[unhalfbricking]

The recent 2014 remaster of 'Zeppelin IV' sounds excellent to my ears and is generally well thought of. Compared with my late 80s copy the new 'IV' has far greater punch, edge and clarity. Steven Wilson re-mixes are almost universally praised (especially the miracles he performed with 'Aqualung' by Jethro Tull). The Beatles 2009 remasters are generally well-liked (although a few die-hards still go with the original 1987 release). I agree with the previous poster about the Doors remasters. I bought 'LA Woman' a couple of years back and it sounds dreadful. My 2001 remaster of 'Oranges and lemons' by XTC has so much treble added that I risk perforating my eardrums every time I listen to it! It's the only CD that I have to listen to at -2 on my Arcam's treble control!

I think what all of this proves is that some remasters are significantly better than others. I think any remaster dating from late nineties to mid noughties is particularly worthy of caution (although by no means all). Recent remasters seem to have learned some of the lessons from that period re detrimental EQ changes and compression.

 

[matthewpiano]

unhalfbricking, have you seen that a new remaster of Everyone Is Everybody Else is being released in June? It's a 3CD deluxe set. The first disc is a new remaster of the album, the second disc is a new stereo remix of the album, and the 3rd disc is a DVD with a 5.1 surround mix of the album. A similar reissue of Gone To Earth is being released at the same time.

Thanks for the heads-up! This new release is especially interesting because I don't currently own a CD copy of the album. I bought it on vinyl back in about 1978 (and subsequently played it to death), but for some reason when I sold all my vinyl about ten years ago, I never replaced it on CD. According to Amazon this pretty comprehensive new release squeaks in at a penny under twenty quid. Interesting!

There will be available from the shop on the www.bjharvest.co.uk website as well. I always buy my BJH stuff from there. Keith Domone has already heard the new remixes and reports that they have uncovered instrumental and vocal parts that were left out in the original mixes. I think it will be wonderful to have the new remaster of the original mix, and the new mix as well as these things can add extra insight into the development of a band.

 

[Freddy58]

I really like 'Once Again' and 'And Other Short Stories' but of the other albums I've heard, nothing really floated my boat. However, I've never heard 'Everyone Is Everybody Else', so looking forward to trying that on Spotify, in the next few days

Sorry to digress Major *smile*

 

[Edbo2]

I'm sure this will attract the usual anti Phil Collins diatribe from the haters, but I've been listening to some of the remasters via iTunes Music, specifically Face Value and No Jacket Required.

Ok first off let's get the obvious overwith, they are mastered with a slightly higher average volume than the original CDs, I haven't checked scientifically but I'd guess by about 3-4db. Which is actually quite conservative compared to some. They don't sound ridiculously in your face and smashed, and one could easily argue this is the level they would have been mastered at had the technolgy of the time (LPs) allowed it without sonic compromise.

But what I'm definitely impressed with, compared to my early-pressing CDs of the same albums, is that the overall sound quality is much improved. These are very clearly better captures from the analogue master tapes than the captures on my early CDs (I *think* NJR was analogue...FV certainly was). Better bass extension, better instrument separation, better layering, less treble roll off. "The Roof Is Leaking" has depth and subtleties I hadn't heard even on my vinyl copy. Compared to my original CDs, the life and energy has been returned, horns are less harsh on tracks such as "Behind The Lines", "Sussudio" and "Hand in hand" (though the latter is still a bit messy at the end...I guess it's just mixed that way), and the sound is just far better balanced across the audio spectrum. "Only You And I Know" and "I Don't Wanna Know" are still noisy bu**ers, but they always were.

It's not so often I recommend remasters, but if you are a fan, I'd recommend giving these a listen via your preferred streaming service and decide whether a purchase is in order. It's very likely I will buy these two.

If I have one disappointment it's that the FV Deluxe Edition does not include the very rare (on digital) 7" single version of "In The Air...". It's always been difficult to find it on CD (though I did find it eventually) and I feel this is a missed opportunity to give fans a 'definitive' digital copy of it.

Best not to compare. I have a Sonos Connect plugged into back of midi system. I played the CD and then streamed from the NAS via Sonos. The sound differed with the Connect giving a richer presentation than the CD. While the CD sounded more clinical the Sonos sounded different. Liked them both

 

[BigH]

I really like 'Once Again' and 'And Other Short Stories' but of the other albums I've heard, nothing really floated my boat. However, I've never heard 'Everyone Is Everybody Else', so looking forward to trying that on Spotify, in the next few days

Sorry to digress Major *smile*

Used to like them 40 years ago, their best album was:
Everyone Is Everybody Else
I thought.

Octoberon was not bad. May try them again not played them for donkeys.

 

[gpi]

Collins played electronic drums on the Invisible Touch album; there's no mention anywhere of him or the band using a drum machine. Perhaps some of the percussion was programmed?

On his later solo albums, such as Both Sides, he used a drum machine at home when writing and recording new songs but added real drums to some tracks in the studio later on.

I was in HMV yersterday and saw his other solo albums are now out too. He was on the radio the other week and asked why the albums had not been re-released chronologically. He said it was simply because Face Value and Both Sides were his favourites so he wanted to talk about those first. I think he was unsure of how he would be received after a long quiet spell. He said himself he was everywhere for a while and was very conscious of that. In this Country we always knock successful people.