Peitho 303 speaker

[DocG]

Well...

You compared a SS vs. valve amplifier. That's true. But you also compared an old amp ($500 back in the day) to an new one (costing €3800).

So valves may be better (or more to your liking) than solid state... Or a new 3800 EUR amp might be better than an old then 500 USD one... *pardon*

 

[Rethep]

That all maybe true, but even my first, cheapest tube-amp (Audio Innovations) was far better than any ss-amp i have ever heard at home (borrowed) or in the shop. And there were many of them.

You can say that's an old ss-amp but 1st. transistortechnology hasn't changed that much for the last 10 years, 2nd. Neither have tube-amps, which are based on schematics from almost the stone-age.

 

[Al ears]

That all maybe true, but even my first, cheapest tube-amp (Audio Innovations) was far better than any ss-amp i have ever heard at home (borrowed) or in the shop. And there were many of them.

You can say that's an old ss-amp but 1st. transistortechnology hasn't changed that much for the last 10 years, 2nd. Neither have tube-amps, which are based on schematics from almost the stone-age.

Surely sir you must be living in some sort of vacuum!

 

[DocG]

That all maybe true, but even my first, cheapest tube-amp (Audio Innovations) was far better than any ss-amp i have ever heard at home (borrowed) or in the shop. And there were many of them.

For the record, Rethep, I do understand your preference for valves. Still remember the first time I heard the UR Simply Italy. It's hard to describe what it did to the sound... It just made the music more musical (sounds like nonsense, but I can't describe it any better...)! What unsettled me though, was the heat it produced, and the need for maintenance and servicing.

Then, I heard the Devialet 110... And the rest is history!

 

[Rethep]

That all maybe true, but even my first, cheapest tube-amp (Audio Innovations) was far better than any ss-amp i have ever heard at home (borrowed) or in the shop. And there were many of them.

For the record, Rethep, I do understand your preference for valves. Still remember the first time I heard the UR Simply Italy. It's hard to describe what it did to the sound... It just made the music more musical (sounds like nonsense, but I can't describe it any better...)! What unsettled me though, was the heat it produced, and the need for maintenance and servicing.

Then, I heard the Devialet 110... And the rest is history!

Oh, finally someone who heard a good, though not powerful, tube-amp, and a new Devialet.

Can you tell me, as exactly as possible, what the difference sounds like ?

Does it really make you forget about all the aspects (subtlety, beautiful vocals, no ss-harshness, soundstage) of tube-sound ? I'm interested.

Mine is

 

[DocG]

That all maybe true, but even my first, cheapest tube-amp (Audio Innovations) was far better than any ss-amp i have ever heard at home (borrowed) or in the shop. And there were many of them.

For the record, Rethep, I do understand your preference for valves. Still remember the first time I heard the UR Simply Italy. It's hard to describe what it did to the sound... It just made the music more musical (sounds like nonsense, but I can't describe it any better...)! What unsettled me though, was the heat it produced, and the need for maintenance and servicing.

Then, I heard the Devialet 110... And the rest is history!

Oh, finally someone who heard a good, though not powerful, tube-amp, and a new Devialet.

Can you tell me, as exactly as possible, what the difference sounds like ?

Does it really make you forget about all the aspects (subtlety, beautiful vocals, no ss-harshness, soundstage) of tube-sound ? I'm interested.

Well, actually in those days I was discovering the wonderful world of speakers. Eagerly trying out as many flavours as possible. So my first encounter with a valve amp was when listening to a pair of Magnepan 1.7s, driven by a Mastersound amplifier. The result was a real eye-opener (ear-opener?) -- which I at the time totally put down to the panel speakers, but the amp for sure had its share in the result too (as had the room!).

I auditioned the Simply Italy at a dealer's, in a purpose built auditorium, driving Focal 807Vs. It's been a while, but from memory, the sound was very palpable; it had some kind of intimacy, I had never heard before. A couple of weeks later, I returned with my good ol' Mission 760 SEs, and that combo worked very well too. I was about to buy the amp, but my wife thought it was a whim (which it probably was), and urged me to cool down a bit first.

And in that cool down period, I heard the Devialet D Premier (driving Harbeth Monitor 30s), which I was very disappointed about. I found another Devialet dealer within reach, and he had just laid his hands on a 110. So the next morning I was off to Antwerp to hear this amp. Demoed with B&W PM1 and MA GX 100. So different room and different speakers -- which makes the comparison a little difficult. But in short, I had this thunderstruck feeling again. Love at first sight! The Dev has a lot in common with a good valve amp: fluid, effortless, palpable (there is that word again!), solid sounds stage; but adds a huge power reserve, upgradeability, less fuss in maintenance... and that gorgeous remote, of course!

So after another cool down period (standard procedure at DocG's!), I ordered the 110 and never looked back. But I'm still intrigued by 'tube-friendly' speakers, which IMO might combine very well with the Devialet... AudioNote were a disappointment in that respect, but I'm interested to test my thesis again, with the Peithos...

Having said all that, I see myself buying a nice SET-amp in the future. Something to tinker with, just for the hobby. But not for daily use!

Mine is

Yours is what?

 

[Rethep]

You can skip the last "Mine is". It was a mistake.

The rest of my answer

Do you really think the Devialet has all the good things from tubes and none of the bad habits ? Does It have only good parameters ? I am curious what Hay

thinks about it, and curious about a direct comparison

Considering the heat and maitainance, i think i can understand. UR has not been known for good service, posted on some hifi-forums.

The heat mine produces increases the roomtemperature by one degree per hour. So on hot summerdays it is a ‘no go thing’. But who wants to be inside on hot summerdays anyway ? ;-)

Environmentally speaking it is not a friendly amp., but that goes for life in general isn’t it.

 

[Rethep]

tube-amps, which are based on schematics from almost the stone-age.[/b]

Surely sir you must be living in some sort of vacuum!

[/quote]

Funny! You made me realize that! ;-) But how about the people who still enjoy their old records accompanied by a 'nice sound' of a crackling woodfire ? They must be from outer space, yes ? ;-)

 

[DocG]

Do you really think the Devialet has all the good things from tubes...

That's a heavy question! No seriously, in my eyes they have major similarities, but "all the good things"... The Dev doesn't have that nice glow, for instance...

and none of the bad habits ?

Here I'm a little more confident. I think here's where the Dev takes the lead. Placement options, energy consumption, maintenance free, upgradeable. Then there's the remote and iThing app, the connectivity, ...

The heat mine produces increases the roomtemperature by one degree per hour. So on hot summerdays it is a ‘no go thing’. But who wants to be inside on hot summerdays anyway ? ;-)

So you don't listen to music in summer? Or you get the hifi out in the garden then?

 

[Rethep]

Do you really think the Devialet has all the good things from tubes...

That's a heavy question! No seriously, in my eyes they have major similarities, but "all the good things"... The Dev doesn't have that nice glow, for instance...

Could you possibly mean by that 'glow', the coherence of the sound ? To me the ss-amp made instruments sound individually stand out, but they lost togetherness. Furthermore the many layers of depth! And of course the vocals: i cannot believe a 'Devialet' does sound as good with vocals as my amp does. If you ever visit Hay, have a listen for yourself!

and none of the bad habits ?

Here I'm a little more confident. I think here's where the Dev takes the lead. Placement options, energy consumption, maintenance free, upgradeable. Then there's the remote and iThing app, the connectivity, ...

For me these things don't count. 'Placement options' and 'energy consumption', no problem. Maintenance: so far no problem, My amp is 'upgradeble', but it is already kind of perfect to me. No 'remote' needed as i use the 'Airport Express' and the 'Remote-app', and i needn't more than one connection. I'm kind of minimalist. The amp and speakers are buit that way too, which suits me well!

The heat mine produces increases the roomtemperature by one degree per hour. So on hot summerdays it is a ‘no go thing’. But who wants to be inside on hot summerdays anyway ? ;-)

So you don't listen to music in summer? Or you get the hifi out in the garden then?

Summer in Holland is mostly not that warm, and without extreme temperatures i'm missing only a few days.

Thanks for your post(s)!

 

[Rethep]

So after another cool down period (standard procedure at DocG's!), I ordered the 110 and never looked back. But I'm still intrigued by 'tube-friendly' speakers, which IMO might combine very well with the Devialet... AudioNote were a disappointment in that respect, but I'm interested to test my thesis again, with the Peithos...

Having said all that, I see myself buying a nice SET-amp in the future. Something to tinker with, just for the hobby. But not for daily use!

'Peitho' is a totally different 'ballgame' than the 'Audio Note' which i, unfortunately, never heard, according to Hay. Completely different loudspeakersystem!

Hay's 'Artephonos' sounds like a good SET-amp according to a Dutch review (on his site), in any case as the best pushpullamp the reviewer ever heard. And then again with a SET-amp you have much more heat!

 

[DocG]

'Peitho' is a totally different 'ballgame' than the 'Audio Note' which i, unfortunately, never heard, according to Hay. Completely different loudspeakersystem!

I agree. The ANs are ported standmounters and not infinite baffle floorstanders. So they should sound very different. Which is why I am interested in hearing the Peithos.

Now, Hay found me a customer in Belgium, who is willing to demonstrate his set-up for me. He has the Ensemble amp and Peitho 507s (in an acoustically treated room)! So the speakers are rather different to the 200s I had in mind. Moreover, and that's more of an issue for me, he doesn't want to swap other gear (like my Devialet) into the chain. I fully respect that -- it's great he invites a total stranger to come over and listen to his gear in the first place-- but it's getting rather pointless for me. Though I'm sure it could be a wonderful experience... So I might accept his invitation if and when I'm somewhere around for another activity, but a 2 x 120 km drive just for hearing this system is still too much for me.

Hay's 'Artephonos' sounds like a good SET-amp according to a Dutch review (on his site), in any case as the best pushpullamp the reviewer ever heard. And then again with a SET-amp you have much more heat!

The thing is: in our new living room, the amplifier will end up in a cabinet. Even leaving the doors open when playing music, it might not have enough ventilation for a valve amp. My (so far imaginary) valve amp would be housed in another room. (BTW, not saying anything about Hay's amps -- cos I haven't heard them yet -- but most reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt or two).

 

[Rethep]

So I might accept his invitation if and when I'm somewhere around for another activity, but a 2 x 120 km drive just for hearing this system is still too much for me.

If you spend this kind of money, you should try Hay's place directly. I think you will not be disappointed. The 507 is for much bigger rooms and is 3-way.

I like the 303 i have, more and more each time i listen to it. But it should still be used with a good amp. I think your Devialet is a good combination as you said you like it's valvelike presentation.

To me the 200 'looks' to be in the same class as mine.

The thing is: in our new living room, the amplifier will end up in a cabinet. Even leaving the doors open when playing music, it might not have enough ventilation for a valve amp. My (so far imaginary) valve amp would be housed in another room. (BTW, not saying anything about Hay's amps -- cos I haven't heard them yet -- but most reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt or two).

Ok i understand now about the heat!

About the reviews 'to be taken with a pinch of salt', how about mine ? ;-)

My idea would be to go and listen for an afternoon at Hay's place, and have a look around in the Venlo envirenmont.

Keep me informed please, and good luck!

 

[DocG]

About the reviews 'to be taken with a pinch of salt', how about mine ? ;-)

Oh no! Yours is different: balanced and credible!

(Good enough to make me consider a trip to Venlo, that's what it is!)

 

[Rethep]

Sorry about the 'mess' in my last post. I mixed up with the 'quotes'. They would not let me correct it, as my 'edit' triggered the spamfilter.

 

[bluebrazil]

i like this thread and im interested to know if the drivers are produced in house or bought from the likes of seas or dynaudio.

sorry if this info is on the website, i havent looked.

 

[Rethep]

I think that this info is not on the website, but they are not produced 'in house'. I don't know which brand, but it is special because of the 'infinite baffle' system. Also take a look at the site for yourself. Your interest might grow!

 

[Rethep]

Hello DocG, any news ? Did you demo anything at Hay's ?

 

[Rethep]

Any news from you "DocG" ?

 

[DocG]

Hi rethep,

No, I never made it to Hay's. It's just too far; couldn't combine the visit with anything. I tried some more alternatives, like Musical Affairs (open baffle, widebander; sounded horrible).

And now I've decided to go a completely different direction: a modified Magnepan system, with active crossovers. Driven by a high current multichannel amp. Not sure when all will be ready; probably somewhere next year!

 

[Rethep]

Nice to hear from you again. Pity you could not make it to Hay's. Interesting that new path of yours. Good luck and keep me informed please. I had Magnepans some 25 years ago.

Thx, and best regards!

 

[Rethep]

A fresh review of the Peitho 403 and 405 (open baffle) speakers in the Dutch hifi-magazine "Music Emotion". It is one model bigger than my speakers (303). The 405 has a horntweeter. I am very curious to hear this one once!

http://www.hifi.nl/artikel/23698/Hay-End-Audio-Peitho-403---405-luidsprekers.html

 

[Rethep]

It is a positive but also critical review of these speakers. They sound like electrostatic or panel speakers, but with a deep low end, although not super tight. But they never 'boom'! Exceptionally suited to valve-amps because of their high efficiency (90 - 94 dB).

If you have 3 to 4 k euro's to spend have a listen in the south of Holland!

 

[Rethep]

'Open baffle' is not a good name for this speakersystem, because the baffle is the base on which the mid/woofer is on, here. What could be the correct name ? Btw, i saw the new 'Audio Note AZ-2', is the same system as these Peitho's.

 

[Rethep]

I just post again about this ever more (3 years now!) wonderfully, satisfying, set-up.

This weekend i bought "Gold dust woman" from "Rumours", (Fleetwood Mac) from iTunes (256 kb AAC). This really outstanding song sounds gorgeous. It is not like a veil that seems to be removed but a whole curtain! And then i did not have a poor set-up before. The sound really floats in the air especially the vocal of Stevie Nicks!

Same goes for "Just like u said it would be" by Sinead O' Connor. That seemd to me a song that was not too special, considering sound. But it floats in the air like the previous one.

Songs by Jeff Buckley: "Lilac Wine" and "Dream Brother" send shivers down my spine.

"Ghosts" by Japan (Oil on canvas) sounds frightening, as it should do!

Two songs from "Glassworks" (Island and Fascades), never enjoyed listening to them by SS-amp, but now: beautiful !

Also older music from the 60's, sounds very open, and shows me many things i never heard before. I wonder if e.g. Jimi Hendrix ever heard his songs this well !

It is these rather 'normally' sounding songs that make clear how good the system really is! As i posted somewhere else on this forum, it takes some time to get used to really good valve sound. If you want real SS-(bass)slam then it will not be your 'cup of tea'. If i 'count my blessings' that's the only thing i sometimes miss a little. But because all other aspects i soon forget about that. And then this system has relatively good, deep bass.

A system that still intrigues more and more even after 3 years, is a gem of course!

'Very strongly recommended' as it would say in a review!