PC as a high quality digital transport

[oldric_naubhoff]

Dummy first entry to avoid possible disappointment

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I decided to start a new thread on this one. This is continuation of my enquiring from another thread on benefits of streamers over PCs as sources. I think it was concluded that streamers don’t offer nothing more over a PC functionality wise. But still many people prefer a streamer than a PC, which is of course all right.

I think I’m in luck. Right after my aging laptop died a few weeks ago a new computing solution emerged that really meets my needs and I think at some stage I’ll take a plunge.

I’m thinking of integrating a PC into my hi-fi and use it as a high quality transport (and use its other features as well since a PC is so much more versatile and flexible device compared to a standalone streamer). I never really liked the idea of a computer as a transport because I would never stand the look of a laptop on my hi-fi rack. OK, something like a Macbook Air is very pretty indeed but I think (and I may come out as traditionalist? ) a laptop’s place is on my laps and not on the display in my living room. Others may say that something like Mac Mini would be a better option with its diminutive size and un-PC-like looks. True, but it has something I really hate about PCs – the fan. I really wished I could get rid of the fan noise altogether.

Now, enter Intel NUC (Next Unit of Computing). The thing has a size that puts even a Mac Mini in shame but it’s a very capable platform nonetheless. Powered by Intel’s i3 dual core 1.8GHz processor, offers support of up to 16GB of DDR3 RAM. It’s also got 2 mini PCI Express slots which means you can fit it with an SSD (I believe as of today up to 500GB of storage on that interface) and upgrade it to a wi-fi ready device. Despite its size this thing should be on par with typical modern laptop performance wise. But size and specs are only part of the story because you still need a fan too cool it down. And that’s where 3rd party enclosure manufacturers step in. It appears you can make an enclosure for this motherboard that will effectively act as an oversized heatsink making use of any fan redundant. I found this aluminium enclosure form Impactics that ticks all the boxes for me. It even looks quite cool and menacing and “audiophile” too. Reminds me of Pass Aleph power amp enclosures . Also Tranquil PC have on offer their own all-alu NUC enclosure doubling as a passive cooler. Unfortunately, this is not going to be a cheap-as-chips project because only the motherboard and the enclosure total up to around €350 - 400. And you still need to factor in RAM and SSD (depending on your needs), wi-fi card (if you want one), power supply and some operating system. I believe the budget should close at €800 all in for my spec if I opt for Win8. But I believe the extra outlay as compared to the likes of Sonos or Simple Audio is a worthwhile sacrifice considering extra functionality and flexibility on offer. Not to mention that having 200GB storage on board means I will not have to play around with NASes for a while.

So much for introduction. Now is the time for asking questions as I don’t want to start the whole research on my own. As some of you might remember from the other thread I’ll have a problem with graphical interface with this solution as I don’t have a TV and don’t intend to get one in the foreseeable unless OLED technology leaps forward and they’ll start offering foldable screens. Projector is out of the question for me as well. Ideally I’d like to have that PC controlled the way you’d usually control a streamer – via a remote device with screen on its own, in my case it would either be an iMac (2012) and/or some cheap laptop and/or a smartphone (if need be Win8 based). So what are your suggestions? What soft and hardware I’d need to have to make it all work as it should? And what players would you recommend for Win8 and Linux platforms (bit perfect data transfer is assumed)? Thank you all in advance for your suggestions. I’ll not be able to contribute much in my thread due to time restraints but I appreciate every input made and will definitely read all post and consider all suggestions.

 

[BigH]

Well the fan on my new PC is hardly audible, Im sure those AL ones are great but at what cost, really for £700 you can get a high spec pc with loads of memory and a SSD which seems to be an advantage for music, maybe thats why my pc is so quiet? I would have a look at Scan computers before taking the plunge.

 

[cheeseboy]

silent pc's have been around for quite a while now, they are nothing new.

Have a look at mini-itx form factor.

If it's just for music, the new intel i3 systems would be overkill quite frankly.

you'll need some form of monitor to set it all up though. Once it's set up, you can then either remote control the computer, or use an app to control whatever bit of software you plump with.

Just to give you some examples - here's some cases

http://www.quietpc.com/htpccases

here's some motherboards without fans

http://www.mitxpc.com/products.asp?cat=99

If you have any specific questions, just ask...

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Well the fan on my new PC is hardly audible,

but not after 7 years of use and that's my problem here. passive will always be silent.

Im sure those AL ones are great but at what cost, really for £700 you can get a high spec pc with loads of memory and a SSD which seems to be an advantage for music, maybe thats why my pc is so quiet? I would have a look at Scan computers before taking the plunge.

about €100 for the enclosure.that small motherboard is more expensive than average motherboard. so it's not that much more expensive than decently looking one typical enclosure. and I should stress out "decently looking". I don't want a PC in my living room. I want audio equipment.

 

[cheeseboy]

and I should stress out "decently looking". I don't want a PC in my living room. I want audio equipment.

click on the cases link I posted above...

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

silent pc's have been around for quite a while now, they are nothing new.

I know. NUC, however, is new.

Have a look at mini-itx form factor.

I don't know if I'm interested in another big(gish) box on my rack. I like the fact NUC will allow the whole thing keep as minimalistic as possible ATM.

If it's just for music, the new intel i3 systems would be overkill quite frankly.

no. if it was I would propably went for a dedicated streamer.

you'll need some form of monitor to set it all up though.

that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Once it's set up, you can then either remote control the computer, or use an app to control whatever bit of software you plump with.

cool, That's what I'm counting for.

Just to give you some examples - here's some cases

http://www.quietpc.com/htpccases

here's some motherboards without fans

http://www.mitxpc.com/products.asp?cat=99

If you have any specific questions, just ask...

thanks. I'll take a look later and see how much larger such unit would end up to be.

 

[cheeseboy]

it's worth noting that a lot of the dedicated htpc cases are made to be the same form factor as hifi equipment - 19" rack mount size or smaller for the specific purpose of not looking like a pc, but as a bit of AV equipment. This can be regardless of the size of the equipment you actually put in it, but that's no different to looking inside some amps where there's a massive transformer and a small pcb and a lot of empty space.

if you wanted to test the concept, you could have a look at getting say a raspberry pi for 25 quid and bunging open elec on it (it runs xbmc). It won't be the best, most powerful etc, but it will give you a good idea of how it will work in your set up and if it's for you or not.

 

[BigH]

200GB storage on board,

That is not very much at all, but more memory should be cheap, think I paid about £30 for 1TB but check before buying.

 

[Overdose]

Dummy first entry to avoid possible disappointment

Raspberry Pi

with XBMC

with PLEX

more available. Aside from no optical drive, this could be a very nice compact little media player. A USB hard drive can be added for additional storage.

 

[Dave_]

You'll need an external soundcard for the Pi unless you use HDMI. The analogue out SQ is s#it and there was a known bug that causes pops and clicks...

 

[Overdose]

You'll need an external soundcard for the Pi unless you use HDMI. The analogue out SQ is s#it and there was a known bug that causes pops and clicks...

One solution HERE, although if using a USB DAC, audio shouldn't be an issue should it? :?

 

[Fred_Barker]

Raspberry Pi

with XBMC

with PLEX

Last summer, when my aged Win XP laptop died. I intended to to exactly what Overdose suggested, and build a Hi-Fi-Pi - so using Twitter, I persuaded several Pi enthusiasts to experiment the concept - the results they tell me, were terrible for a number of reasons.

Instead - I did think about using something like this:-
http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products/xl/168289/6/acer_veriton_n4620g_dtvfheh003.jpg

As much as I like good quality sound - I also like something to look at (other than the news with subtitles) - So I use Soundspectrum G-Force slide show plus superimposed random patterns. A small Form PC that can be fixed behind a TV as is doesn't come with a monitor. Install iTunes and control it with a Smartphone App, or with something like VNC.

Anyways - after trying two different Buffalo NAS boxes, which didn't perform as I expected - I ended getting a Win7 laptop...The only time you can hear fan noise is if graphics are displayed - but if just streaming music, I close the lid. Happy days!!

 

[The_Lhc]

Hey, it's you! Hello there!

 

[Fred_Barker]

Hey, it's you! Hello there!

Indeed it is!! - well spotted! You see how a recognisable avatar can give you away? haha!

 

[fr0g]

Someone alerted me to these.

http://www.tinygreenpc.com/

They seem to fit the bill perfectly?

 

[steve_1979]

How about a Sapphire Edge mini PC?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-007-SP&adword=google/pla/PUP_Systems_Bundles_Home_Theatre_PC_s/_rd_Party_Media_PC_s/FS-007-SP/&pup_ptid=49702879235&pup_kw=&pup_c=pla&gclid=CLnzweHkn7YCFUfMtAodxjkAUw

 

[steve_1979]

Or an Xtreamer mini PC.

http://xtreamer.net/ultra/

 

[MajorFubar]

Others may say that something like Mac Mini would be a better option with its diminutive size and un-PC-like looks. True, but it has something I really hate about PCs – the fan. I really wished I could get rid of the fan noise altogether.

Think you need to try one before condemning it. It's not a cr*ppy PC. The fan on my wife's Windows 7 laptop is almost permanently on, unless it's basically doing nothing. Even browsing webpages is stressful enough for it to start making a whirring-noise loud enough to frighten the Hoover. In comparison I've never heard the fan on my Mac Mini ever, not in nearly two years of using one as a media sever. My watch ticks louder. Same goes for my i7 iMac. Totally quiet, nearly always.

I'm sorry to sound all high and mighty, but a Mac is just a completely different proposition to some cheap nasty PC cobbled together and thrown-out ten a penny for the masses. You can't condemn a Mac based on your worst experience from some Godamn-awful noisy PC. Of course I'm sure there are good, quiet, well-built PCs as well. Can't say I've ever owned one though, and I've had plenty.

 

[immictnic]

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[hammill]

Others may say that something like Mac Mini would be a better option with its diminutive size and un-PC-like looks. True, but it has something I really hate about PCs – the fan. I really wished I could get rid of the fan noise altogether.

Think you need to try one before condemning it. It's not a cr*ppy PC. The fan on my wife's Windows 7 laptop is almost permanently on, unless it's basically doing nothing. Even browsing webpages is stressful enough for it to start making a whirring-noise loud enough to frighten the Hoover. In comparison I've never heard the fan on my Mac Mini ever, not in nearly two years of using one as a media sever. My watch ticks louder. Same goes for my i7 iMac. Totally quiet, nearly always.

I'm sorry to sound all high and mighty, but a Mac is just a completely different proposition to some cheap nasty PC cobbled together and thrown-out ten a penny for the masses. You can't condemn a Mac based on your worst experience from some Godamn-awful noisy PC. Of course I'm sure there are good, quiet, well-built PCs as well. Can't say I've ever owned one though, and I've had plenty.

I have an Acer Aspire. Never heard it make any noise, sitting on my lap, so if I wished to use it as a streamer it would not be an issue. As it happens, I have a NAS in another room and a squeezebox touch, controlled by its own display or a galaxy tab (or a pc or a phone etc etc ). The touch was £138 and I think a DAC of equivalent quality would have cost me more, so I have no need to use a PC or buy a seperate DAC. Great shame they stopped the Touch , I would have bought another.

 

[MajorFubar]

Point I was making, is not all computers are built equally, and certainly compared to some PCs, the Mac Mini is all-but silent. So it's wrong to dismiss it just because it has a fan. If the fan on my Mini has ever been on in two years, then I haven't heard it, and my hearing is good enough for me to want to take an axe to my wife's noisy HP Win7 cr-ptop. Remarkably, she's oblivious to it.

 

[Dave_]

Point I was making, is not all computers are built equally, and certainly compared to some PCs, the Mac Mini is all-but silent. So it's wrong to dismiss it just because it has a fan. If the fan on my Mini has ever been on in two years, then I haven't heard it, and my hearing is good enough for me to want to take an axe to my wife's noisy HP Win7 cr-ptop. Remarkably, she's oblivious to it.

If its anything like my old Macmini, its because the fan doesn't work

Conversely I have an HP laptop that is silent, unless its transcoding HD video, and even then the fan is just audible

 

[hammill]

Point I was making, is not all computers are built equally, and certainly compared to some PCs, the Mac Mini is all-but silent. So it's wrong to dismiss it just because it has a fan. If the fan on my Mini has ever been on in two years, then I haven't heard it, and my hearing is good enough for me to want to take an axe to my wife's noisy HP Win7 cr-ptop. Remarkably, she's oblivious to it.

And I would agree with you, just making the point that it is not just Apple who make well engineered kit, which could have been implied

 

[BigH]

Apple are no doubt good but in UK overpriced, about same in £s as USA price in $s but less options. Also extras like RAM are so much more like £160 v £20 for PC. My PC was £900 for a Mac with similar but lower spec would have been over £2,000.