Onkyo TX-NR609 - an amp for all seasons?

[plastic penguin]

I've always heard these debates, also, about CDPs and DVD players. Most have said that CDPs will outgun DVDs for music, but my personal experience is to the contrary. True, there is a difference... minimal. Likewise, I believe the same with multi channel receivers and dedicated integrated amps.

Fair enough, but aren't you looking for a new CD player at the moment, rather than a DVD or Blu ray player? I run a Blu Ray, by the way, into my DAc. Also, I may be wrong here but didn't you purchase fairly recently an integrated amp?

I'd be interested to hear whether compared it with some AV Receivers, and what made you choose to stick on the traditional path.

recordspot, I don't doubt the article was convincing. I've never heard of the reviewer myself, butI'd hesitate believing (or recommending) until I'd tried the item/s under review. Maybe I'm getting a bit conservative in my old age!

Clearly you haven't read my previous posts, because if you had, you would know that my first choice would be a DAC (see Rdac v DacMagic...yet to be convinced thread). In saying that I've not ruled out a better CDP. If I go the DAC route I'll buy another DVD player or Bluray to play my existing discs.

Yup, purchased the Leema last summer because a)I've no desire to switch multi-channel and b) We don't have room for surround speakers.

I was just responding to Max's silly comment and an example how things can be taken out of context, hence why i sited the comparison between my 73 and my Sony DVD player.

Nuff said.

 

[Anonymous]

You're right, plastic penguin, I hadn't read your previous thread, so fair enough.

You might be interested to know that a couple of Finnish and German magazines I was perusing a couple of hours ago while waiting for a tram recommended the Rega DAC, the rDac (only in one magazine, though) and the Peachtree Audio.

Personally I'm going to have a listen to the Abrahamsen V6.0 DAC. Abrahamsen is the man who designed the Electrocompaniet Classic series, so should be good. It's well priced at 590€ - site http://www.abrahamsenaudio.no/ if you're interested.

 

[Anonymous]

I've always heard these debates, also, about CDPs and DVD players. Most have said that CDPs will outgun DVDs for music, but my personal experience is to the contrary. True, there is a difference... minimal. Likewise, I believe the same with multi channel receivers and dedicated integrated amps.

Fair enough, but aren't you looking for a new CD player at the moment, rather than a DVD or Blu ray player? I run a Blu Ray, by the way, into my DAc. Also, I may be wrong here but didn't you purchase fairly recently an integrated amp?

I'd be interested to hear whether compared it with some AV Receivers, and what made you choose to stick on the traditional path.

recordspot, I don't doubt the article was convincing. I've never heard of the reviewer myself, butI'd hesitate believing (or recommending) until I'd tried the item/s under review. Maybe I'm getting a bit conservative in my old age!

Clearly you haven't read my previous posts, because if you had, you would know that my first choice would be a DAC (see Rdac v DacMagic...yet to be convinced thread). In saying that I've not ruled out a better CDP. If I go the DAC route I'll buy another DVD player or Bluray to play my existing discs. Yup, purchased the Leema last summer because a)I've no desire to switch multi-channel and b) We don't have room for surround speakers. I was just responding to Max's silly comment and an example how things can be taken out of context, hence why i sited the comparison between my 73 and my Sony DVD player. Nuff said.

i don't see anything silly about it, nor do i get the relevance of the cdp vs dvd comparison?

avr's are designed primarily for movies, they may be getting better with music these days as dave said, and maybe the onkyo with all it's features will suit the rs perfectly, and sound good enough for him, but i stand by my comment, for the best quality stereo performance at a given price you need a dedicated stereo amp imo.

 

[CnoEvil]

Personally I'm going to have a listen to the Abrahamsen V6.0 DAC. Abrahamsen is the man who designed the Electrocompaniet Classic series, so should be good. It's well priced at 590€ - site http://www.abrahamsenaudio.no/ if you're interested.

That's a very intriguing looking dac, that isn't one of the "usual suspects".

Electrocompaniet have always made good products, so I suspect you're right - will be interesting to hear your view.

 

[Andrew Everard]

but i stand by my comment, for the best quality stereo performance at a given price you need a dedicated stereo amp imo.

Which is quite a backpedal from

i reckon any half decent stereo amp would be better than the onkyo.

 

[The_Lhc]

Personally I'm going to have a listen to the Abrahamsen V6.0 DAC. Abrahamsen is the man who designed the Electrocompaniet Classic series, so should be good. It's well priced at 590€ - site http://www.abrahamsenaudio.no/ if you're interested.

Quote from that website regarding their cables: "all three cables have been treated with cryogenics techniques to achieve superconductivity".

Oh dear... No, they haven't, room-temperature superconductivity is one of the holy grails of modern physics, if they'd acheived that in a cable they wouldn't be piddling about with hi-fi, they'd be trillionaires.

 

[Anonymous]

but i stand by my comment, for the best quality stereo performance at a given price you need a dedicated stereo amp imo.

Which is quite a backpedal from

i reckon any half decent stereo amp would be better than the onkyo.

i stand by that one too..imo..

 

[CnoEvil]

avr's are designed primarily for movies, they may be getting better with music these days as dave said, and maybe the onkyo with all it's features will suit the rs perfectly, and sound good enough for him, but i stand by my comment, for the best quality stereo performance at a given price you need a dedicated stereo amp imo.

There are two different arguements going on here.

Firstly - Can you get good 2 channel performance from an AV amp?.....Yes, but it's expensive.

Secondly - At any given budget, will a stereo amp out perform an AV one?.....Absolutely, no doubt about it.

So to some extent, everybody is right.....which is good!

 

[Anonymous]

avr's are designed primarily for movies, they may be getting better with music these days as dave said, and maybe the onkyo with all it's features will suit the rs perfectly, and sound good enough for him, but i stand by my comment, for the best quality stereo performance at a given price you need a dedicated stereo amp imo.

There are two different arguements going on here. Firstly - Can you get good 2 channel performance from an AV amp?.....Yes, but it's expensive. Secondly - At any given budget, will a stereo amp out perform an AV one?.....Absolutely, no doubt about it. So to some extent, everybody is right.....which is good!

i agree

 

[the record spot]

My contention to the views is simply thus: if bog standard stereo CD is your bag, then buying an all singing, all dancing AV amp - why buy functionality you don't need - is money wasted on additional facilities. However, if you're one of the many like me who've got a range of material on different formats, from SACD and DVD-A through to Blu-Ray audio recordings, as well as needing a decent onboard amp DAC for the likes of computer audio and Freeview/iPlayer radio streams, or would make use of the onboard Spotify provision on the amp, then the likes of the Onkyo is smart technology that serves a greater purpose/need than just CD alone and centralises the means to hear these formats in the housing of one amp.

If anything, it's serves to show the limitations of CD stereo that you still need to have a dedicated stereo amp to get a supposedly better sound for 16-bit technology first devised in the late 1970s, when the reality is SACD/DVD-A and Blu-Ray audio could comfortably outperform CD if, all else being equal, it's working with well recorded/mastered source material.

 

[Anonymous]

If it's any help I bought one and Friday and love it

 

[the record spot]

Hi lanelad, can you tell me what it's like with music and what else you might've used to compare it with? Cheers.

 

[Clare Newsome]

We're just putting the finishing touches to our review.... Subscribers will be able to read it from May 5th; readers who buy their copies in shops will be able to peruse it by 10th May.

As well as testing its many features (AV and musical), we've also compared it with last year's '608....

 

[the record spot]

And now you tell us...where were you 40-odd posts ago Ms. N?!?

(EDIT: But thanks, that's good news - I'll look forward to it!)

 

[Anonymous]

My experience tells me that, unless things have changed remarkably in the last year or so, there isn't an AV amp that can hold a candle to a proper HiFi, as in stereo, amp.

That's a very broad statement. An Arcam AVR600, in stereo direct, biamped to decent speakers (eg Kef Ref) and with a decent source, sounds very impressive. It takes a big investment on a stereo amp to get a worthwhile improvement. I know as I've been there.

I think a good question is how much less would you have to spend on a cd player and an intergrated amp to get equivalent performance?

 

[CnoEvil]

My experience tells me that, unless things have changed remarkably in the last year or so, there isn't an AV amp that can hold a candle to a proper HiFi, as in stereo, amp.

That's a very broad statement. An Arcam AVR600, in stereo direct, biamped to decent speakers (eg Kef Ref) and with a decent source, sounds very impressive. It takes a big investment on a stereo amp to get a worthwhile improvement. I know as I've been there.

I think a good question is how much less would you have to spend on a cd player and an intergrated amp to get equivalent performance?

A good question, but a completely different one. :~

Are you expecting an answer or is it rhetorical?

 

[Anonymous]

My experience tells me that, unless things have changed remarkably in the last year or so, there isn't an AV amp that can hold a candle to a proper HiFi, as in stereo, amp.

That's a very broad statement. An Arcam AVR600, in stereo direct, biamped to decent speakers (eg Kef Ref) and with a decent source, sounds very impressive. It takes a big investment on a stereo amp to get a worthwhile improvement. I know as I've been there.

I think a good question is how much less would you have to spend on a cd player and an intergrated amp to get equivalent performance?

A good question, but a completely different one. :~ Are you expecting an answer or is it rhetorical?

I would quite like an answer please if its not too much trouble xx p could you also list the rrp of the onkyo? thanks

 

[Frank Harvey]

The comparison can also be looked at in two ways - do you compare a £500 hi-fi amp to a £500 AV receiver, or do you take into account that much f the AV receiver's budget has been spent elsewhere, and compare it to a £200-300 hi-fi amplifier? You have to really take into account that an AV receiver has a DAC (or multiple DACs), an ADC, HD decoding, video upscaling and conversion, auto set-up, a second or even third zone, a learning remote control, and possibly an ethernet connection allowing streaming, internet radio access etc etc.

 

[the record spot]

Exactly - hence my earlier comment about stereo amps arguably fast becoming the also-rans in home audio. The very few by Harman Kardon, XTZ, Audiolab, Peachtree and Onkyo with maybe a couple of others falling in are the exceptions and not the rule and even then we're only talking about a DAC facility.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Yup, more and more hi-fi amps are coming with built in DACs, but they're still a minority. Personally, I don't see the point in a hi-fi amp with a dAC built in as you can probably buy a stand alone one that's better - even if it might be a bit more expensive. The good thing about having it separate is that the DAC or amp can then be upgraded at any point, should one start to lag as far as quality is concerned, rather than upgrading both by default.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think a good question is how much less would you have to spend on a cd player and an intergrated amp to get equivalent performance?

A good question, but a completely different one. :~ Are you expecting an answer or is it rhetorical?

I would quite like an answer please if its not too much trouble xx p could you also list the rrp of the onkyo? thanks

Hi running123

I have no experience of the Onkyo (which may be what you're asking about). I can only speak about the Arcam, and what it took to get a substantial improvement.

I tried the Moon I7, an amp from Coda, Primare I30 and MF M6i. I didn't feel any of these gave the improvement I was after. It was only when I heard the MF AMS35i, that felt I'd found what I was looking for.

With regard to your CD question, the only thing I have to compare to, is an Arcam DV79. This I replaced (for stereo) with a Linn Majik DS, which was a big leap in performance. The DV79 is also no match for a Linn Karik/Numerik CD player, which I'm familiar with. It probably gives a similar level of performance to a £600 CD player.

If this is not what you're looking for, I appologise. My original comment was only made to show that a good level of performance could be achieved from an AV amp.

What I will say is the AVR600 is very special for two channel, so the normal rules don't seem to apply.

Good luck

Cno

 

[the record spot]

...could you also list the rrp of the onkyo? thanks

The Onkyo TS-NR609 is around £500, the junior 509 can be had for as little as £350 (the Home Cinema Centre in Edinburgh's doing a deal on it just now) while the likes of Onkyo's TX-SR808 from the outgoing line is around £750 in Richer Sounds. There's also Yamaha's RX-V1067 which is near the £600 mark, discounted in Richer Sounds currently.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The 509 is £350rrp

 

[the record spot]

Seems like it, though the HCC have marketed it as a pre-order promotion...I must've missed some small print thing somewhere.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers for the responses, it is clear that I did not make myself clear in the first instance.

I have NO knowledge of av amps, and am assuming that it can decode cd's but was wondering if you had £1000 to spend on an av reciever and planned to only use it for 2 channel stereo (not that anyone would) as bot a ource and an amp, how much would it cost to get the equivalent sound for a interated amp and a cd player for example would a £300 amp and a £300 cdp be as good as the avr?