I am currently using the Marantz 6003 cd player and amp, which I very much like however my brother maintains that whilst good they dont hold a candle to the hifi equipment of his day (hes fifteen years older). What is the experts general feeling on this? I would now like to test this theory with minimal expense. Can anyone recommend a good cd player and amp of 10 years plus that I could pick up cheaply? I would like to pair them with the Monitor Audio BR1's
Old(er) CD Player and Amp
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Hi,
I have listened to the Marantz cd6002, 7001 but preferred my older marantz cd-63se, not as refined but had a more musical midband than the others - more natural sounding and alive with a deeper soundstage.
Cheers
Steve.
I have listened to the Marantz cd6002, 7001 but preferred my older marantz cd-63se, not as refined but had a more musical midband than the others - more natural sounding and alive with a deeper soundstage.
Cheers
Steve.
there will be many options such as the old silver Pioneers, Sansui's, Yamaha's etc
here is an old Pioneer SA-706 amp ... there is 1 bid and is standing on 0.99 ... still 4 days to go ... seller does not say much in his listing, but has been described as being in 'mint' condition .... may end up selling for under £50 ... there are many more on ebay (type pioneer sa in the ebay search box)
connect that to an old pioneer or rotel cdp and should be very good
here is an old pioneer PD-S703 cdp (I own one and is very good) ... standing on £17 and may sell for under £50 ...
and here is a Rotel RCD-965BX ... no bids and standing on £10 .... these are good and sometimes sell between £30-£50
here is an old Pioneer SA-706 amp ... there is 1 bid and is standing on 0.99 ... still 4 days to go ... seller does not say much in his listing, but has been described as being in 'mint' condition .... may end up selling for under £50 ... there are many more on ebay (type pioneer sa in the ebay search box)
connect that to an old pioneer or rotel cdp and should be very good
here is an old pioneer PD-S703 cdp (I own one and is very good) ... standing on £17 and may sell for under £50 ...
and here is a Rotel RCD-965BX ... no bids and standing on £10 .... these are good and sometimes sell between £30-£50
matthewpiano
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After some pretty extensive swapping about and trying out of various options, both new and old, I have to say stick with your Marantz kit. The 6003 combo is excellent and whilst an old amp might initially sound more impressive I think you would miss the Marantz kit.
I went back down the vintage route again and have ended up back with the NAD kit because it is, quite simply, superior.
I went back down the vintage route again and have ended up back with the NAD kit because it is, quite simply, superior.
I've had both of those CDp's, in fact I still have my Rotel RCD-965BX but unfortunately it's been held back by my amp so when I get a new amp it shall sound as awesome as it should - the 703 is a bang on player especially since it has the Stable Platter Mechanism - what an invention!! Love it!! and want another one. SO anyone swap me lol the 703 is cheap on ebay as well as the Rotel but also some of those Pioneers end up having the "U2" error and it's usually clock related, although never had it myself!
Would definitely recommend both players as superbly awesome!
Would definitely recommend both players as superbly awesome!
Frank Harvey
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Recently picked up an Audiolab 8000A from around 93/94 mainly because I needed an amp with tone controls, and one I could rely upon to sound good, and also be loud enough for ocassional party
It didn't fail me - still sounds great, and played non stop for 6 odd hours at failry high levels. Can usually be picked up for about £120/150 in good/excellent condition, sometimes with box. Highly recommended.
It didn't fail me - still sounds great, and played non stop for 6 odd hours at failry high levels. Can usually be picked up for about £120/150 in good/excellent condition, sometimes with box. Highly recommended.
plastic penguin
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dim_span:
there will be many options such as the old silver Pioneers, Sansui's, Yamaha's etc
here is an old Pioneer SA-706 amp ... there is 1 bid and is standing on 0.99 ... still 4 days to go ... seller does not say much in his listing, but has been described as being in 'mint' condition .... may end up selling for under £50 ... there are many more on ebay (type pioneer sa in the ebay search box)
connect that to an old pioneer or rotel cdp and should be very good
here is an old pioneer PD-S703 cdp (I own one and is very good) ... standing on £17 and may sell for under £50 ...
and here is a Rotel RCD-965BX ... no bids and standing on £10 .... these are good and sometimes sell between £30-£50
I can personally vouch for the SA-706 - I had one for 17 years and loved it. Choosing old amps is fine, but I'm a little more conservative when it comes to old CDPs. The obvious reason, of course, because they have more moving parts, and because you can pick up Arcam CD72s at good prices.
If the OP is determined to go the more mature route, Rotel RCD 975 is superb. Likewise the RCD 965BX, and they'll both work brilliantly with the aforementioned Pioneer.
there will be many options such as the old silver Pioneers, Sansui's, Yamaha's etc
here is an old Pioneer SA-706 amp ... there is 1 bid and is standing on 0.99 ... still 4 days to go ... seller does not say much in his listing, but has been described as being in 'mint' condition .... may end up selling for under £50 ... there are many more on ebay (type pioneer sa in the ebay search box)
connect that to an old pioneer or rotel cdp and should be very good
here is an old pioneer PD-S703 cdp (I own one and is very good) ... standing on £17 and may sell for under £50 ...
and here is a Rotel RCD-965BX ... no bids and standing on £10 .... these are good and sometimes sell between £30-£50
I can personally vouch for the SA-706 - I had one for 17 years and loved it. Choosing old amps is fine, but I'm a little more conservative when it comes to old CDPs. The obvious reason, of course, because they have more moving parts, and because you can pick up Arcam CD72s at good prices.
If the OP is determined to go the more mature route, Rotel RCD 975 is superb. Likewise the RCD 965BX, and they'll both work brilliantly with the aforementioned Pioneer.
matthewpiano:
I went back down the vintage route again and have ended up back with the NAD kit because it is, quite simply, superior.
Ooh, danger, blanket statement alert! I think I'd be interested to hear how that stacks up against the opposing view you've put forth that the NAD gear was annoying, missed out the bass and became to much of an issue to listen to!
You maybe just bought kit on the back of a hope it would deliver at a level you unrealistically expected it to achieve?
I went back down the vintage route again and have ended up back with the NAD kit because it is, quite simply, superior.
Ooh, danger, blanket statement alert! I think I'd be interested to hear how that stacks up against the opposing view you've put forth that the NAD gear was annoying, missed out the bass and became to much of an issue to listen to!
You maybe just bought kit on the back of a hope it would deliver at a level you unrealistically expected it to achieve?
The problem with Matthew is that he is a musican and is very critical of the quality of sound
He has mentioned that he previously auditioned the new Sugden and loved it .... my advice is that he should save up for the system he really wants (obviously within reason) and settle on perhaps an older amp with tone controls and suitable speakers/cdp for the meantime .... and sell off all the older gear he has accumulated over the years
..... or look at buying the Sugden now on terms over a long period ....
I think by buying cheaper/budget systems, Matthew will never be truly happy as he will always compare it to the more expensive
He has mentioned that he previously auditioned the new Sugden and loved it .... my advice is that he should save up for the system he really wants (obviously within reason) and settle on perhaps an older amp with tone controls and suitable speakers/cdp for the meantime .... and sell off all the older gear he has accumulated over the years
..... or look at buying the Sugden now on terms over a long period ....
I think by buying cheaper/budget systems, Matthew will never be truly happy as he will always compare it to the more expensive
matthewpiano
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the record spot:matthewpiano:
I went back down the vintage route again and have ended up back with the NAD kit because it is, quite simply, superior.
Ooh, danger, blanket statement alert! I think I'd be interested to hear how that stacks up against the opposing view you've put forth that the NAD gear was annoying, missed out the bass and became to much of an issue to listen to!
You maybe just bought kit on the back of a hope it would deliver at a level you unrealistically expected it to achieve?
Actually what I said was that the NAD gear produced more bass than was strictly correct and that I found that annoying. It turns out different placement of the speakers sorted that one out.
I did buy 'kit on the back of a hope it would deliver at a level' equal to or beyond that of modern kit, and it just doesn't IMO.
What my experience has shown me is that:
1) WHF&SV hi-fi reviews are very accurate indeed
2) Well matched modern components are very very hard to beat sonically.
3) Buying used kit is a lottery. You can't audition it and you can't send it back if you don't like it. You don't know anything about whether it is performing to spec unless you spend further cash having it serviced, and then there is the risk that the amp will end up sounding different.
4) Sideways moves are a complete waste of time, whether dealing with vintage or modern kit
5) Once you reach a certain level of performace, such as that offered by the Marantz 6003s or my NAD kit, a massive investment is required to make anything like worthwhile improvements.
I went back down the vintage route again and have ended up back with the NAD kit because it is, quite simply, superior.
Ooh, danger, blanket statement alert! I think I'd be interested to hear how that stacks up against the opposing view you've put forth that the NAD gear was annoying, missed out the bass and became to much of an issue to listen to!
You maybe just bought kit on the back of a hope it would deliver at a level you unrealistically expected it to achieve?
Actually what I said was that the NAD gear produced more bass than was strictly correct and that I found that annoying. It turns out different placement of the speakers sorted that one out.
I did buy 'kit on the back of a hope it would deliver at a level' equal to or beyond that of modern kit, and it just doesn't IMO.
What my experience has shown me is that:
1) WHF&SV hi-fi reviews are very accurate indeed
2) Well matched modern components are very very hard to beat sonically.
3) Buying used kit is a lottery. You can't audition it and you can't send it back if you don't like it. You don't know anything about whether it is performing to spec unless you spend further cash having it serviced, and then there is the risk that the amp will end up sounding different.
4) Sideways moves are a complete waste of time, whether dealing with vintage or modern kit
5) Once you reach a certain level of performace, such as that offered by the Marantz 6003s or my NAD kit, a massive investment is required to make anything like worthwhile improvements.
sorry Matthew .... did not know you were online ... otherwise would have worded my post directly to you
matthewpiano
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dim_span:sorry Matthew .... did not know you were online ... otherwise would have worded my post directly to you
No worries mate, and I don't want to make this thread about me. I'm just trying to offer the other side of the coin to the OP and save him some of the misery I've been through.
No worries mate, and I don't want to make this thread about me. I'm just trying to offer the other side of the coin to the OP and save him some of the misery I've been through.
matthewpiano:dim_span:sorry Matthew .... did not know you were online ... otherwise would have worded my post directly to you No worries mate, and I don't want to make this thread about me. I'm just trying to offer the other side of the coin to the OP and save him some of the misery I've been through.
no probs .... from what I understood, the OP is looking at a really cheap old system, hence my recomendations and trying to help with a decent amp/cdp that will cost under £80 ....
obviously, if he has a large budget, I still maintain that there are some cracking deals to be had on really good vintage gear ... but as you said, lots of research has to be done so as to match the items correctly
no probs .... from what I understood, the OP is looking at a really cheap old system, hence my recomendations and trying to help with a decent amp/cdp that will cost under £80 ....
obviously, if he has a large budget, I still maintain that there are some cracking deals to be had on really good vintage gear ... but as you said, lots of research has to be done so as to match the items correctly
plastic penguin
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Aaanyway, back on topic, this JVC S-33L is also a fabulous amp. A mate had one in the early eighties (5 Band Graphic), and at 65 watts per channel is a little more powerful than the Pioneer SA-706.
It has a 'Buy It Now' price with 6 days to go...
It has a 'Buy It Now' price with 6 days to go...
I have a 13 year Kenwood seperates system (DP 3080 MkII cd player/KA3080R amp) which would in their day be classed as budget kit and I can tell you that your brother is wrong.
I also have the Marantz 6003 cd player but linked to a NAD C320BEE amp and it knocks the spots of my Kenwood's. Everything from sound and build quality is surpassed.
The only thing I can say is the Kenwood cd player has lasted a lot longer than the NAD C521BEE cd player I got originally.
Hope this is of some help.
I also have the Marantz 6003 cd player but linked to a NAD C320BEE amp and it knocks the spots of my Kenwood's. Everything from sound and build quality is surpassed.
The only thing I can say is the Kenwood cd player has lasted a lot longer than the NAD C521BEE cd player I got originally.
Hope this is of some help.
matthewpiano:
3) Buying used kit is a lottery. You can't audition it and you can't send it back if you don't like it. You don't know anything about whether it is performing to spec unless you spend further cash having it serviced, and then there is the risk that the amp will end up sounding different.
4) Sideways moves are a complete waste of time, whether dealing with vintage or modern kit
5) Once you reach a certain level of performace, such as that offered by the Marantz 6003s or my NAD kit, a massive investment is required to make anything like worthwhile improvements.
Agreed with 4, and to some extent 3, in as much as it is a lottery unless you do some research ahead of buying anything (but in truth that applies across the board, new or used).
Some sellers will take returns, esp if business sellers and you buy direct. But ultimately, it comes down to knowing what kind of sound you like and the equipment that will best deliver it, or come closest to it. There isn't I should add, one set-up that has delivered the kind of sound the live experience delivers - many have come close (my current set-up probably closest) - but that's another angle.
5, yep, sideways moves in hifi, best avoided. Couldn't agree more; what you in one area, you lose in another. Sometimes there's no gain at all, just more of the same.
3) Buying used kit is a lottery. You can't audition it and you can't send it back if you don't like it. You don't know anything about whether it is performing to spec unless you spend further cash having it serviced, and then there is the risk that the amp will end up sounding different.
4) Sideways moves are a complete waste of time, whether dealing with vintage or modern kit
5) Once you reach a certain level of performace, such as that offered by the Marantz 6003s or my NAD kit, a massive investment is required to make anything like worthwhile improvements.
Agreed with 4, and to some extent 3, in as much as it is a lottery unless you do some research ahead of buying anything (but in truth that applies across the board, new or used).
Some sellers will take returns, esp if business sellers and you buy direct. But ultimately, it comes down to knowing what kind of sound you like and the equipment that will best deliver it, or come closest to it. There isn't I should add, one set-up that has delivered the kind of sound the live experience delivers - many have come close (my current set-up probably closest) - but that's another angle.
5, yep, sideways moves in hifi, best avoided. Couldn't agree more; what you in one area, you lose in another. Sometimes there's no gain at all, just more of the same.
I have had a few systems but I have to say that one of he most 'gripping' was also my starter system (not bad for a poor student as it happened...)
Rotel RCD 965BX, Cyrus 2 amp and a pair of JPW Sonata speakers (100 quid from Richer Sounds).
Maybe it was all to do with expectation, but I have never heard a system gel like that one, my current Cyrus and previous Naim set-up included.
If you can find good examples of the Rotel and Cyrus 2, bag em straight away!
Rotel RCD 965BX, Cyrus 2 amp and a pair of JPW Sonata speakers (100 quid from Richer Sounds).
Maybe it was all to do with expectation, but I have never heard a system gel like that one, my current Cyrus and previous Naim set-up included.
If you can find good examples of the Rotel and Cyrus 2, bag em straight away!
jockey.wilson:
I have had a few systems but I have to say that one of he most 'gripping' was also my starter system (not bad for a poor student as it happened...)
Rotel RCD 965BX, Cyrus 2 amp and a pair of JPW Sonata speakers (100 quid from Richer Sounds).
Maybe it was all to do with expectation, but I have never heard a system gel like that one, my current Cyrus and previous Naim set-up included.
If you can find good examples of the Rotel and Cyrus 2, bag em straight away!
I think that when you are young and 'carefree', you have less stress, are more relaxed, and it is easier to enjoy music, so any reasonable system sounds good
when you get old, you have loads more stress .... a bad day at work .... and your system/music is not as 'pleasant' as it is when you are totally relaxed?
I have had a few systems but I have to say that one of he most 'gripping' was also my starter system (not bad for a poor student as it happened...)
Rotel RCD 965BX, Cyrus 2 amp and a pair of JPW Sonata speakers (100 quid from Richer Sounds).
Maybe it was all to do with expectation, but I have never heard a system gel like that one, my current Cyrus and previous Naim set-up included.
If you can find good examples of the Rotel and Cyrus 2, bag em straight away!
I think that when you are young and 'carefree', you have less stress, are more relaxed, and it is easier to enjoy music, so any reasonable system sounds good
when you get old, you have loads more stress .... a bad day at work .... and your system/music is not as 'pleasant' as it is when you are totally relaxed?
Thanks for the assistance I probably should have been more specific about what I was after. I currently use the Marantz kit in my lounge but I am looking for a new system for my home office, I was asking about older kit that would have been considered the equivalent at the time that my Marantz kit is considered now. I have a pair of fairly new MA BR 1's to go with any new kit. Obviously the cheaper the better and would love to pick up some decent older stuff for arpund £200 but if I find something good value I might stretch my budget beyond the 400-500 I was looking at originally
pioneer A400 = approx £130
marantz cd 63 MKII K1 signature cd player = approx £130
mission 753 speakers (the old version) = approx £200
add approx £40 for speaker cables/interconnect and that will give you a very good older system for £500 ....
all those components work very well together .... (sell your speakers and put that money towards the Mission speakers)
marantz cd 63 MKII K1 signature cd player = approx £130
mission 753 speakers (the old version) = approx £200
add approx £40 for speaker cables/interconnect and that will give you a very good older system for £500 ....
all those components work very well together .... (sell your speakers and put that money towards the Mission speakers)
when i was a kid my dad had a sansui 101 amp and still does.it must be almost 40 years old.it has a warm sound deep dass but limited top end .when i buy a new amp or go to listen to one i whish in some way it could sound like a updated version of the 101.after reading this fourm i may have to go on to e-bay and try to get my self a old sansui amp just to see if i could live with one full time.
matthewpiano
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aversaurus:when i was a kid my dad had a sansui 101 amp and still does.it must be almost 40 years old.it has a warm sound deep dass but limited top end .when i buy a new amp or go to listen to one i whish in some way it could sound like a updated version of the 101.after reading this fourm i may have to go on to e-bay and try to get my self a old sansui amp just to see if i could live with one full time.
I feel NAD is the closest sound to those old Sansui amps if you are looking at new kit.
I feel NAD is the closest sound to those old Sansui amps if you are looking at new kit.
I've had a pretty good weekend .... on friday, bought another old Pioneer SA-9800 amp for £80 from an old guy down the road .... was in his loft for several years .... powerd it up, works fine, but slight crackle from the volume control ... (nothing that a bit of de-oxit cannot sort) ... or will see if I can get a new replacement
then yesterday, managed to get a used pair of Hitachi LC-OFC interconnects on ebay for £9,99 (I have been searching for these for a very long time)
so, seems like my daughter will shortly be sorted with a reasonable hifi setup
then yesterday, managed to get a used pair of Hitachi LC-OFC interconnects on ebay for £9,99 (I have been searching for these for a very long time)
so, seems like my daughter will shortly be sorted with a reasonable hifi setup
plastic penguin
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dim_span:
I've had a pretty good weekend .... on friday, bought another old Pioneer SA-9800 amp for £80 from an old guy down the road .... was in his loft for several years .... powerd it up, works fine, but slight crackle from the volume control ... (nothing that a bit of de-oxit cannot sort) ... or will see if I can get a new replacement
then yesterday, managed to get a used pair of Hitachi LC-OFC interconnects on ebay for £9,99 (I have been searching for these for a very long time)
so, seems like my daughter will shortly be sorted with a reasonable hifi setup
I don't suppose he has a pair old DB1s up there as well?
Wow, just goes to show what is available right on your doorstep. I had a similar experience with car many moons ago....
Well done!
I've had a pretty good weekend .... on friday, bought another old Pioneer SA-9800 amp for £80 from an old guy down the road .... was in his loft for several years .... powerd it up, works fine, but slight crackle from the volume control ... (nothing that a bit of de-oxit cannot sort) ... or will see if I can get a new replacement
then yesterday, managed to get a used pair of Hitachi LC-OFC interconnects on ebay for £9,99 (I have been searching for these for a very long time)
so, seems like my daughter will shortly be sorted with a reasonable hifi setup
I don't suppose he has a pair old DB1s up there as well?
Wow, just goes to show what is available right on your doorstep. I had a similar experience with car many moons ago....
Well done!
plastic penguin: he has a few bits and bobs, but nothing else that really interested me .... he has arthritis and has his home on the market as he has made an offer on a small bungalow in our village (he has probs getting up and down stairs) ....
he was going to take the amp to the tip/recycle centre, as charity shops do not accept electrical items
also had an interesting chat with a guy who was a senior engineer at Arcam for many years.... he has said that he will recap/tweak the amp if I supply the capacitors .... so will try to see if I can get hold of a list of what is needed on the vintage pioneer forum .... if too much hassle, I will send it in to the same place that I had my other amp sorted
he was going to take the amp to the tip/recycle centre, as charity shops do not accept electrical items
also had an interesting chat with a guy who was a senior engineer at Arcam for many years.... he has said that he will recap/tweak the amp if I supply the capacitors .... so will try to see if I can get hold of a list of what is needed on the vintage pioneer forum .... if too much hassle, I will send it in to the same place that I had my other amp sorted
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