New standmount speakers

[kramer2020]

May I first apologise for the pasty white legs, however I wanted to show my speaker location in some sort of context (the tweeters are approx. 6ft away from my listening position)

Near field listening maybe but I know there is a problem with bass overwhelming all else.

I also know that the room dimensions are a problem however I do not want to start messing about with room treatments.

What I do want to do is invest in some stand mount speakers that are accurate without being too bass light.

I’m thinking of the following:

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1: great reviews - but maybe bass light?

Wharfedale Diamond 12.2: A Big lump and possibly to much bass?

Bowers & Wilkins 606 S2: Reviewers have commented on the treble being harsh

Elac Debut B6.2: Rave reviews on most sites but trashed by some reviewers on YT

Dali Oberon 1: Some reviewers say they’re bass light but would I notice and would it be a bad thing?

Dali Oberon 3: Excellent reviews, gorgeous and expensive but too much bass?

So what do you think does anyone have any of these speakers preferably in a small room setting and do you disagree with my speaker opinions..

 

[plastic penguin]

May I first apologise for the pasty white legs, however I wanted to show my speaker location in some sort of context (the tweeters are approx. 6ft away from my listening position)

Near field listening maybe but I know there is a problem with bass overwhelming all else.

I also know that the room dimensions are a problem however I do not want to start messing about with room treatments.

What I do want to do is invest in some stand mount speakers that are accurate without being too bass light.

I’m thinking of the following:

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1: great reviews - but maybe bass light?

Wharfedale Diamond 12.2: A Big lump and possibly to much bass?

Bowers & Wilkins 606 S2: Reviewers have commented on the treble being harsh

Elac Debut B6.2: Rave reviews on most sites but trashed by some reviewers on YT

Dali Oberon 1: Some reviewers say they’re bass light but would I notice and would it be a bad thing?

Dali Oberon 3: Excellent reviews, gorgeous and expensive but too much bass?

So what do you think does anyone have any of these speakers preferably in a small room setting and do you disagree with my speaker opinions..

View attachment 3524

Is your amp a Yamaha?

Does it have to be standmounters?

 

[kramer2020]

Is your amp a Yamaha?

Does it have to be standmounters?

Not necessarily, I'm just mindful that my current speakers may be a bit overwhelming for my room. I do prefer floor standers though and I was looking at the Dali Oberon 5's which are quite a bit smaller but may still have a soundstage that maybe just a bit too big for my room. My Amp is a Yamaha AS-501

 

[Al ears]

Is your amp a Yamaha?

Does it have to be standmounters?

It's in his signature. I was about to ask the same thing.
If it is standmounts the Dali Oberon 3 would be my choice but, as stated expensive and you'd have to factor in the cost of decent stands.
I would also consider the Mission QX2 Mk2
Personally I don't think the Dali Oberon 5 would be overkill.
I don't suppose you can home audition anything?
Note: with your amp it is possible to take bass slightly via the tone controls.

 

[gasolin]

Dali Oberon has the same problems as B&W 600

My Mission LX2's can't quiete handle the max power my yamaha A-S301 has

Misson LX 1 gen is a good match for my yamaha A-S301

 

[twinkletoes]

Do not spend any money with out finding out what the problem is. If you say the the bass is overwhelming this leads me to think you have a large bump somewhere in 40-60hz region. In which case any good stand mounted speaker will still excite this region and possibly more so as standmounts tend to have a bump in there crossover in that region to give the sense that they have more bass then they actually have.

As an experiment, grab some cushions off the sofa for 10mins and place behind the speakers/ around the room playing familiar bass heavy music . It should absorb some of the bass and smooth things out a touch.

Try moving the seating position closer to the speakers, move the speakers closer together to compensate the imaging

If you want to just jump into trying speakers you need to take a long hard look at your speakers and there design. And stay completely away from that design. Forget about brand concentrate on what will “work”. So if the room is very excitable try a sealed design or speaker with a passive radiator/front ported speakers. Try a transmission line design. Something completely different from what you have.

In this case I’d take a long hard look at some sort of EQ device I think. This might be stand alone device or more likely an amp with eq on board.

 

[Al ears]

Do not spend any money with out finding out what the problem is. If you say the the bass is overwhelming this leads me to think you have a large bump somewhere in 40-60hz region. In which case any good stand mounted speaker will still excite this region and possibly more so as standmounts tend to have a bump in there crossover in that region to give the sense that they have more bass then they actually have.

As an experiment, grab some cushions off the sofa for 10mins and place behind the speakers/ around the room playing familiar bass heavy music . It should absorb some of the bass and smooth things out a touch.

Try moving the seating position closer to the speakers, move the speakers closer together to compensate the imaging

If you want to just jump into trying speakers you need to take a long hard look at your speakers and there design. And stay completely away from that design. Forget about brand concentrate on what will “work”. So if the room is very excitable try a sealed design or speaker with a passive radiator/front ported speakers. Try a transmission line design. Something completely different from what you have.

In this case I’d take a long hard look at some sort of EQ device I think. This might be stand alone device or more likely an amp with eq on board.

He could treat the room all he likes but basically he has the wrong speakers for that room.
Agreed a sealed box design may be more beneficial, would have said Arcaydis EB1S if they are still making them, or indeed a smaller speaker which he seems to be looking for.

 

[kramer2020]

Do not spend any money with out finding out what the problem is. If you say the the bass is overwhelming this leads me to think you have a large bump somewhere in 40-60hz region. In which case any good stand mounted speaker will still excite this region and possibly more so as standmounts tend to have a bump in there crossover in that region to give the sense that they have more bass then they actually have.

As an experiment, grab some cushions off the sofa for 10mins and place behind the speakers/ around the room playing familiar bass heavy music . It should absorb some of the bass and smooth things out a touch.

Try moving the seating position closer to the speakers, move the speakers closer together to compensate the imaging

If you want to just jump into trying speakers you need to take a long hard look at your speakers and there design. And stay completely away from that design. Forget about brand concentrate on what will “work”. So if the room is very excitable try a sealed design or speaker with a passive radiator/front ported speakers. Try a transmission line design. Something completely different from what you have.

In this case I’d take a long hard look at some sort of EQ device I think. This might be stand alone device or more likely an amp with eq on board.

"As an experiment, grab some cushions off the sofa for 10mins and place behind the speakers/ around the room playing familiar bass heavy music . It should absorb some of the bass and smooth things out a touch"

Does this apply to all speakers or rear ported ones - mine are down firing by way.

Try moving the seating position closer to the speakers, move the speakers closer together to compensate the imaging

I'm already about 1.7 M away from the speakers, any closer I'll have some very heavy headphones!

 

[plastic penguin]

Not necessarily, I'm just mindful that my current speakers may be a bit overwhelming for my room. I do prefer floor standers though and I was looking at the Dali Oberon 5's which are quite a bit smaller but may still have a soundstage that maybe just a bit too big for my room. My Amp is a Yamaha AS-501

Okay, the reason for asking about the amp is I heard the previous model AS-500. This person with 500 was using the Kef R300. Not sure if your version has the same tonal qualities.

Also, as I've recently demoed speakers, once used with dedicated stands, has the same footprint as floorstanders.

I would look at Dali Oberon 5, Neat SX2. These are tiny floorstanders.

Or the standmounters fron the same companies

 

[gasolin]

Wharfedale diamond 220 og 225, they are not bass heavy at 40-60hz

My experience is that even the big mission lx 3 gen 2 is not bass heavy

Wharfedale Diamond 225 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

 

[Al ears]

Okay, the reason for asking about the amp is I heard the previous model AS-500. This person with 500 was using the Kef R300. Not sure if your version has the same tonal qualities.

Also, as I've recently demoed speakers, once used with dedicated stands, has the same footprint as floorstanders.

I would look at Dali Oberon 5, Neat SX2. These are tiny floorstanders.

Or the standmounters fron the same companies

Neat Motive SX2 might be a tad over his budget unless he can find a second hand pair.
Cheapest I can find is £750.
Still, it's a good call.

 

[gasolin]

Neat Motive SX2 might be a tad over his budget unless he can find a second hand pair.
Cheapest I can find is £750.
Still, it's a good call.

For that price you can get a used pair of Kef LS50

 

[Al ears]

For that price you can get a used pair of Kef LS50

Unfortunately I don't think he wants to spend that much....

 

[gasolin]

Q acoustics concept 20

 

[robdmarsh]

Wharfedale diamond 220

Do you really rate these? In my experience they some of the worst budget stand mount speakers I've heard.

 

[gasolin]

Some like the diamond 220

 

[robdmarsh]

Yeah, cloth ears folks maybe.

By the way guys, there's someone on eBay who's been advertising Triangle Titus EZ for months at £580 including Atacama Moseco stands. This is ripe for negotiating, they've been on there for 5 months! These speakers are stunning imho. Someone could get quite a bargain here! Thank me later...

 

[Al ears]

Do you really rate these? In my experience they some of the worst budget stand mount speakers I've heard.

Funnily enough I wasn't too keen on them either, the Diamond 12.2 are much preferred.

 

[SteveH72]

I’ve always found QAcoustics speakers go very well with Yamaha amps. I once ran some 3020i’s with an AS501 and they worked very well together. I’d also recommend the B & W 606 S2. In my opinion, the best stand mount speakers under £800.

 

[plastic penguin]

Neat Motive SX2 might be a tad over his budget unless he can find a second hand pair.
Cheapest I can find is £750.
Still, it's a good call.

Well, I thought I'd throw the option out in the ring. Or perhaps earlier version

 

[twinkletoes]

"As an experiment, grab some cushions off the sofa for 10mins and place behind the speakers/ around the room playing familiar bass heavy music . It should absorb some of the bass and smooth things out a touch"

Does this apply to all speakers or rear ported ones - mine are down firing by way.

Try moving the seating position closer to the speakers, move the speakers closer together to compensate the imaging

I'm already about 1.7 M away from the speakers, any closer I'll have some very heavy headphones!

it’s not about the size the of speakers. I sit around the same distance from my klipsch heritage speakers which are far far bigger, Cornwalls. Weather you have heard of it or not you’re effectly following the cardas ratio rule. Just not that well at this moment in time.

Sometimes the listening chair is to close to the wall behind you, which will create bass bloom instantly. Remember everything needs to be even, you’re after an equilateral triangle ideally. The closer you get to it the more the problems start to fade.

You either have position problem or your room is a little to enthusiastic, usually both both need not cost money to sort just time. Either way a speaker change will more than likely not solve the problem as I mentioned. If you have a 50hz bump then a stand mounted speaker will give you the same problem. 50hz is 50hz. You need to measure.

1.7meter is not what I consider nearfield at all. Look at recording studios. Now that’s near field. 10-20cm will make no difference visually but will adjust the sound drastically. Move the chair till the bass all but disappears and there will be a point at which it does it. Then move it back till it just comes back. Then adjust to taste. If you end up right in front of them then basically you’ll have a system that’s largely unaffected by the room congratulations it’s what we all pine for. Ie the cardas rule. Does it matter if your the only personal using the room?
The imaging effect you get from a set up like that is otherworldly, you will then understand what reviewers are referring too.

In answer to your cushion question yes it will work for all speakers though you may need to try them at differing elevations and amounts eg stacked vertically, you’ll look a like twit doing it but it will give you a good idea. And as your speakers are downward firing an old trick to tighten bass up with subwoofers that fire downwards is to get some granit/concrete slabs and place under them. You are decoupling them.

Another tip is you can use mirrors to find first order reflections. Very Very handy. But not what you asked about.