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new pre amp needed

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lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
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Benchmark DAC would be a fine choice. Just use the built in volume control. No point in using a pre-amp in addition to that.

You can buy the DAC 1 for 400 euros 2nd hand now.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
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lindsayt said:
Benchmark DAC would be a fine choice. Just use the built in volume control. No point in using a pre-amp in addition to that.

You can buy the DAC 1 for 400 euros 2nd hand now.
Reading through all the marketing stuff
Id be lead to believe that you get the best of both worlds though i may be wrong but active and passive.

I would need to get the dac 2 onwards though due to the lack of functions/inputs thats missing on the mk1. Big pitty for the price as i could be up and running soon.

Are you ready for round 2 lol? Lindsay. Ill get the chanpagne this time.
 
S

SemiChronic

Guest
Would an 851E be worth a look? Ultimate connectivity and awesome sound and can be had for a good price apparently. A realy nice pre amp if you can see past the cambridge label.

Andrew Everard likes it

https://andreweverard.com/2014/05/30/review-cambridge-audio-azur-851e851w/
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
SemiChronic said:
Would an 851E be worth a look? Ultimate connectivity and awesome sound and can be had for a good price apparently. A realy nice pre amp if you can see past the cambridge label.

Andrew Everard likes it

https://andreweverard.com/2014/05/30/review-cambridge-audio-azur-851e851w/
Yes it is a very good shout and one ive been looking at for a while. Thanks
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
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plastic penguin said:
With respect Andrew, a few months ago you were crowing over the AVIs. Wouldn't that be a cheaper option than fannying around with old s####y passive set-ups?
Yes, pre amps are requirements for passive power amps, but also many makes of active speakers need them also.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
1,627
76
19,770
Andrewjvt said:
plastic penguin said:
With respect Andrew, a few months ago you were crowing over the AVIs. Wouldn't that be a cheaper option than fannying around with old s####y passive set-ups?
Yes, pre amps are requirements for passive power amps, but also many makes of active speakers need them also.
So what amp are you planning to use with the preamp? It's always wise to match the pre with the same make power amp.
 

Al ears

Moderator
plastic penguin said:
Andrewjvt said:
plastic penguin said:
With respect Andrew, a few months ago you were crowing over the AVIs. Wouldn't that be a cheaper option than fannying around with old s####y passive set-ups?
Yes, pre amps are requirements for passive power amps, but also many makes of active speakers need them also.
So what amp are you planning to use with the preamp? It's always wise to match the pre with the same make power amp.
A note maybe why active speakers may not be for everyone. If they don't have the necessary connections and a preamp becomes an additional requirement.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
plastic penguin said:
Andrewjvt said:
plastic penguin said:
With respect Andrew, a few months ago you were crowing over the AVIs. Wouldn't that be a cheaper option than fannying around with old s####y passive set-ups?
Yes, pre amps are requirements for passive power amps, but also many makes of active speakers need them also.
So what amp are you planning to use with the preamp? It's always wise to match the pre with the same make power amp.
Yes pp, i agree that it makes a lot of sense to match the same make preamp and power amp when using a passive set up.

But the sound quality is not just down to system matching and same sound signature of certain makes. Its more down to the impedance (the current input/output of the components)
Luckily, many active speakers have an input sensitivity switch and gain trim and the benchmark preamp has adjustable output so it can perfectly match the power amp or active speaker.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
1,627
76
19,770
Andrewjvt said:
plastic penguin said:
Andrewjvt said:
plastic penguin said:
With respect Andrew, a few months ago you were crowing over the AVIs. Wouldn't that be a cheaper option than fannying around with old s####y passive set-ups?
Yes, pre amps are requirements for passive power amps, but also many makes of active speakers need them also.
So what amp are you planning to use with the preamp? It's always wise to match the pre with the same make power amp.
Yes pp, i agree that it makes a lot of sense to match the same make preamp and power amp when using a passive set up.

But the sound quality is not just down to system matching and same sound signature of certain makes. Its more down to the impedance (the current input/output of the components) Luckily, many active speakers have an input sensitivity switch and gain trim and the benchmark preamp has adjustable output so it can perfectly match the power amp or active speaker.
Sorry, I'm not being argumentative, but you had two Hegel amps that you were more than happy with. Then you said you hankered after building your own active speakers, based around ATC [big] drivers... you purchased ATCs then decided the new AVIs mullered anything passive.

After that your sig showed you had a Yamaha amp of some description, and now you seem to be a coy over what you plan to partner the new preamp with.

If it is just for active speakers then according to you it seems the preamp is irrelevent.

Please up date us on your current set-up so we can give a more precise advice. At the moment, we're all just throwing out suggestions that might be wide of the mark.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
plastic penguin said:
Andrewjvt said:
plastic penguin said:
Andrewjvt said:
plastic penguin said:
With respect Andrew, a few months ago you were crowing over the AVIs. Wouldn't that be a cheaper option than fannying around with old s####y passive set-ups?
Yes, pre amps are requirements for passive power amps, but also many makes of active speakers need them also.
So what amp are you planning to use with the preamp? It's always wise to match the pre with the same make power amp.
Yes pp, i agree that it makes a lot of sense to match the same make preamp and power amp when using a passive set up.

But the sound quality is not just down to system matching and same sound signature of certain makes. Its more down to the impedance (the current input/output of the components) Luckily, many active speakers have an input sensitivity switch and gain trim and the benchmark preamp has adjustable output so it can perfectly match the power amp or active speaker.
Sorry, I'm not being argumentative, but you had two Hegel amps that you were more than happy with. Then you said you hankered after building your own active speakers, based around ATC [big] drivers... you purchased ATCs then decided the new AVIs mullered anything passive.

After that your sig showed you had a Yamaha amp of some description, and now you seem to be a coy over what you plan to partner the new preamp with.

If it is just for active speakers then according to you it seems the preamp is irrelevent.

Please up date us on your current set-up so we can give a more precise advice. At the moment, we're all just throwing out suggestions that might be wide of the mark.
The pre amp is very important and i still have the hegel and my yamaha av amp.

Just to correct you on a few things youve got mixed up.

I never built the atc clones as the final cost would come to about £3200

Now take the cost of the hegel £3400 and the cost of the clone atc k100s £3200

Thats almost £7000.

Now i could get a 2nd hand pair of genuine Atc scm100asl actives and have even better sq for that price.
and the clone speakers ino wont hold the value once brought. So i feel id be better off getting the genuine product with much better active sound.

The fact that active avi had better sound quality than my passive 3 times more expensive equipment has nothing to do with it at all.
 
S

SemiChronic

Guest
Im not entirely sure what youre upto either(no offence) but if youre reducing number of boxes and arent bothered about a turntable then surely a dac/streamer/pre amp and a power/integrated is all you need?

2 boxes job done.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
267
60
10,970
Hi Andrew

why not buy the Hegel P20 or P30 Pre amp from Hegel then use your Hegel h360 as the power amp

I thought the Hegel had a streamer built in it as well as a very good onboard Dac
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
SemiChronic said:
Im not entirely sure what youre upto either(no offence) but if youre reducing number of boxes and arent bothered about a turntable then surely a dac/streamer/pre amp and a power/integrated is all you need?

2 boxes job done.

 
My original thoughts to use streamer as pre also but came into.some complications regards the volume control. (Another story i cant share at this time lol)

Just wanted some suggestions for pre amps that i could investigate that i perhaps had not thought/heard of. Also good technical advise from people like lindsay, dave and shadders.
I dont want to go into my setup right now as its not decided yet.

Oh yes only music files not turn table.
 
S

SemiChronic

Guest
Aha, im guessing that you want to run both active and passives? if so then maybe something like a 851N giving optical, coax, rca and xlr out. So you could send digital and analogue to your actives.

Dunno what inputs/outputs your Hegel has, they might gel well together or most horribly. Might be interesting to find out. Dont think anything will blow up though . .

Another suggestion . . take your gear down richer sounds and go home with a big telly instead?

-humour failure-
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
Blacksabbath25 said:
Hi Andrew 

why not buy the Hegel P20 or P30 Pre amp from Hegel then use your Hegel h360 as the power amp 

I thought the Hegel had a streamer built in it as well as a very good onboard Dac 
Im looking for a balanced pre out to run a set of actives.

I could use the hegels pre out but that would be a waste of good amp.
The actives already have a power amp built in but im still toying with a few ideas and even building the k100s is still an option.
All depends on cost v performance and value v what ive already spent.

Just to add i dont think i could add much performance adding a pre amp to the hegel. I cant fault it in any way sound quality wise. I mean the hegel already has a very good preamp with its own seperate power supply already. Changing the speakers to large atc or harbeth or pmcs on the other hand would make a big change. But as ive said before in other threads - the type of size driver im after and the costs of it all added up, makes perfect sense for me to go active now.
I know thats not what you want to hear but trust me my hegel is the best integrated amp ive heard and i've compared quite a few recently.
 

lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
16
2
0
plastic penguin said:
So what amp are you planning to use with the preamp? It's always wise to match the pre with the same make power amp.
That goes out the window if your system is suitable for a stepped attenuator passive pre-amp.

All you'll have in the signal path, pre-amp wise, is some wires, a selector switch (for multi-input designs), some (high quality) resistors, some terminals. None of which will introduce any significant deviations from a flat frequency response from 20 hz to 20khz.

There are very few manufacturers that make stepped attenuator pre-amps as well as power amps.

There are no real issues whatsoever in using passive pre-amps with power amps from a different manufacturer. Just as there's no issue in using speakers from a different manufacturer to your amplification.
 
S

SemiChronic

Guest
I know your last comment wasnt aimed at me, i regularly see others picking holes in members hifi paths.

I also understand about being satisfied with certain compnents, im in a similar place whereby im really happy with my set up and for any substantial upgrade id probably have to spend about 5k or more, as i dont see the point in tiny tweaks.

And for that sort of money id rather have a reality check and upgrade my vehicle.

Best of luck Andrew
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
SemiChronic said:
I know your last comment wasnt aimed at me, i regularly see others picking holes in members hifi paths.

I also understand about being satisfied with certain compnents, im in a similar place whereby im really happy with my set up and for any substantial upgrade id probably have to spend about 5k or more, as i dont see the point in tiny tweaks. 

And for that sort of money id rather have a reality check and upgrade my vehicle.

Best of luck Andrew
Btw you seem to me to have a pretty good setup anyway.
Cambridge very underrated imo.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
Andrewjvt said:
SemiChronic said:
I know your last comment wasnt aimed at me, i regularly see others picking holes in members hifi paths.

I also understand about being satisfied with certain compnents, im in a similar place whereby im really happy with my set up and for any substantial upgrade id probably have to spend about 5k or more, as i dont see the point in tiny tweaks.

And for that sort of money id rather have a reality check and upgrade my vehicle.

Best of luck Andrew
Btw you seem to me to have a pretty good setup anyway. Cambridge very underrated imo.
it is very easy to get bogged down in the issues of functionality, sometimes having specific requirements such as balanced outputs will limit your choices.

The Benchmark products have been mentioned and I am a big fan of the more affordable Dac 1 but functionality is limited and there is no remote and you still need a streamer...

All in all I feel the obvious answer is the Cambridge CXN, which is affordable and seems to tick most of the boxes, I have not tried the control app, so that is something to look out for.

Many, though by no means all, actives offer balanced and unbalanced inputs, my own Adams run unbalanced and are absolutely silent, if you can do this then there are options such as the WXC50 that is half the cost of the CXN.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
davedotco said:
Andrewjvt said:
SemiChronic said:
I know your last comment wasnt aimed at me, i regularly see others picking holes in members hifi paths.

I also understand about being satisfied with certain compnents, im in a similar place whereby im really happy with my set up and for any substantial upgrade id probably have to spend about 5k or more, as i dont see the point in tiny tweaks. 

And for that sort of money id rather have a reality check and upgrade my vehicle.

Best of luck Andrew
Btw you seem to me to have a pretty good setup anyway. Cambridge very underrated imo.
it is very easy to get bogged down in the issues of functionality, sometimes having specific requirements such as balanced outputs will limit your choices.

The Benchmark products have been mentioned and I am a big fan of the more affordable Dac 1 but functionality is limited and there is no remote and you still need a streamer...

All in all I feel the obvious answer is the Cambridge CXN, which is affordable and seems to tick most of the boxes, I have not tried the control app, so that is something to look out for.

Many, though by no means all, actives offer balanced and unbalanced inputs, my own Adams run unbalanced and are absolutely silent, if you can do this then there are options such as the WXC50 that is half the cost of the CXN.
Arrange a demo and viewing at local richer sounds but they need to ring me when stock in. Ja the app is very important. I like the cambridge audio streamers very much.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
The functionality and therefore the app, are very important, the one occasion I tried to get a dem of this unit my local store offered to 'play' me the unit from a CD player/transport but could not or would not set it up using online streaming controlled from the app...

There are plenty of happy stream magic users around so hopefully that is not an issue but I really want to check this out before parting with any cash. That said, I find the pricing for 'hi-fi' streamers to be absurd, stand alone units costing hundreds of pounds offering little more than a Chromecast, the MCR611 gives an idea of what can be done at a budget level but higher performance units are rare and often poor vfm.

The 'hi-fi' trade seems a long way behind in this respect, still clinging on to the idea of high priced separates when the market wants less boxes, more integration and greater simplicity.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
davedotco said:
The functionality and therefore the app, are very important, the one occasion I tried to get a dem of this unit my local store offered to 'play' me the unit from a CD player/transport but could not or would not set it up using online streaming controlled from the app...

There are plenty of happy stream magic users around so hopefully that is not an issue but I really want to check this out before parting with any cash. That said, I find the pricing for 'hi-fi' streamers to be absurd, stand alone units costing hundreds of pounds offering little more than a Chromecast, the MCR611 gives an idea of what can be done at a budget level but higher performance units are rare and often poor vfm.

The 'hi-fi' trade seems a long way behind in this respect, still clinging on to the idea of high priced separates when the market wants less boxes, more integration and greater simplicity.
I know what you mean about richer sounds and demo's and also really high priced streamers. Just when i think ive found a suitable model another problem springs up.
I even called up cambridge audio direct to ask major differences inside the cxn and 851n and the only answer i could get is more expensive parts lol.

This is why i also looked at aralic mini as this little unit can have a ssd ir hhd fitted inside and no need for pc. Just update new tracks with usb stick. Im pretty much sold on benchmark now. Now the only problem is the dac1 does not have the input/outputs i need so it would have to more expensive models.
 

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