Im on the brink of buying a 428XD but am desperate to compare it with Pioneer/sharps 'replacement offering'.........Any idea when/if you might be having the subject model in for review??
Regards
Regards
New Pioneer KRL-37V LCD.
- Thread starter Technics
- Start date
Andrew Everard:
We have, of course, requested review samples - we wait to hear when they will arrive.
ÿ
Hi Andrew,
I know it is pure conjecture at this moment in time but do you think that these Pioneer LCD sets will be on the same level on all areas of performance as most of the better Plasma's or the Pioneer G9 Kuros based on your years of experience with both technologies? The 37" seems to be priced at around £1800 which is an awful lot of money for basically a bog standard Sharp panel with some fancy Kuro tweaking - Even if the black levels are improved considerably, there are other issues that pertain to LCD's like viewing angles, generally very poor SD performance compared to Plasmas, motion issues, artifacting etc - from what I have been able to find out, the Sharp panels they are using offer nothing special, innovative or outstandingly new compared to what else is presently out there seeing as both Sony and Samsung are apparently soon bringing out the next generation of LED backlit sets.
As Pioneer will no longer be offering a 42" or the expected 44"/46" Plasma, for those that cannot accomadate a 50"+ screen, that leaves them with only a 37" or 46" LCD - based on on the prices of the 37", one can then reasonably assume that the 46" LCD will cost well over £2K which hardly makes these sets competitve - which I though was the whole point of them coming to the 'inferior' LCD market? Imho, for that kind of money, a Kuro LCD set had better be every bit as good in every area as a G9 Kuro Plasma and I seriously have my doubts whether that will be the case! I look forward to seeing what these sets can do, especially the 46" version - I trust you guys will then do a direct comparison between a Pioneer G9 Plasma and these supposed Kuro LCD sets!
Bazzy!
We have, of course, requested review samples - we wait to hear when they will arrive.
ÿ
Hi Andrew,
I know it is pure conjecture at this moment in time but do you think that these Pioneer LCD sets will be on the same level on all areas of performance as most of the better Plasma's or the Pioneer G9 Kuros based on your years of experience with both technologies? The 37" seems to be priced at around £1800 which is an awful lot of money for basically a bog standard Sharp panel with some fancy Kuro tweaking - Even if the black levels are improved considerably, there are other issues that pertain to LCD's like viewing angles, generally very poor SD performance compared to Plasmas, motion issues, artifacting etc - from what I have been able to find out, the Sharp panels they are using offer nothing special, innovative or outstandingly new compared to what else is presently out there seeing as both Sony and Samsung are apparently soon bringing out the next generation of LED backlit sets.
As Pioneer will no longer be offering a 42" or the expected 44"/46" Plasma, for those that cannot accomadate a 50"+ screen, that leaves them with only a 37" or 46" LCD - based on on the prices of the 37", one can then reasonably assume that the 46" LCD will cost well over £2K which hardly makes these sets competitve - which I though was the whole point of them coming to the 'inferior' LCD market? Imho, for that kind of money, a Kuro LCD set had better be every bit as good in every area as a G9 Kuro Plasma and I seriously have my doubts whether that will be the case! I look forward to seeing what these sets can do, especially the 46" version - I trust you guys will then do a direct comparison between a Pioneer G9 Plasma and these supposed Kuro LCD sets!
Bazzy!
Hello folks, I googled across this forum (I am aware of your magazine, but not a monthly reader).
I am working in an audio-video high end shop in The Netherlands and we received a whole batch of these Pioneer LCD TVs.
The Sharp panels used on these Pioneers are not "any run of the mill panels" as that they are high gloss and what Sony calls: "X-black" or what Samsung calls: "Ultra-X" or "Ultra-Black". These are terms used for smaller sized computer monitors and PSP's to push the blacks in screens. These screens where up to now too black, too glossy and very laggy (extreme amounts of ghosting).
Pioneer has taken this technology and with Sharps help made a very good panel, ONLY the panel is from Sharp, all the other electronics are from Pioneer. This means that just the foil (that is being printed) is made by Sharp, the rest is made by Pioneer.
To compensate for the gloss they added a bunch of filters. At first the LCD seems to be more glossy then the Plasma when standing next to each other but this is just by appearance because the LCD plasma is more black. Yes, the PANEL, is more black then the plasma. This doesn't have to say much about the actual results of picture quality.
Here my full followup review I wrote on my own site:
I actually ordered the 37" LCD for myself which will be in my living room Tuesday next week.
Today, the 13th of august, I had a chance to play around with it all day and I hooked up
several DVD players and HD players and did some color space comparisons
with the Plasmas of Pioneer and LCDs of Sony. (I work in a high end
store so I have the time and possibilities to do this)
To start off, this screen is one of the best LCD screens I have seen.
They are as sharp as the latest Sony screens (which are very
impressive) but are much more black.
Even though the LCD is MORE BLACK then the Plasma (insane I know),
next to the 42" top of the line Plasma of Pioneer it is not in the same
league, (even when turned off, the LCD is more black then the plasma,
but note, it also has a glare of blue)
If a picture has bright spots (overlight) (such as in foreheads of dark
skinned people) a lot of detail gets lost (as in all LCD screens) where
in the plasma there is still a lot of detail present.
But when you crank down the contrast, power up the back light and turn
off all the overdrive features it actually reveals a very good screen,
where maybe with a bit less black, you get an enormous amount of
details and it actually is almost on par with the plasma.
Of course LCD specific quirks are still present. The screen is much
more sharp so its also less quiet to look at (more artifacts on non-hd
sources/less forgiving) even though it spots 100Hz and the 24 frames
cine mode. Considering colors it gets pretty darn close to the plasma
but still can't bring the warmth a plasma can.
For build quality it feels and looks a lot better then the plasmas. The
Plasma screens feature a cheap looking plastic frame (shiny and bobbly)
but the LCD is sharp and neat looking like brushed steel. It's also
more heavy then a similiar sized LCD screen and at 220 watts it
consumes more power then most other LCD screens (Samsung 37" grosses
around 185 watts and a Sharp around 160watts)
Overall its probably the best LCD screen I have seen after some
tweaking in picture quality. The build quality is very good overall and
this is truly beautiful work by Pioneer.
The panel is made by Sharp (which doesn't even uses this panel in their
own TV's in the west) and the ultra black looks very good. Some people
say it's more reflecting then the plasmas, this is NOT true, it's more
black then the plasmas, so it looks like its more shiny. When viewing
they are very much the same.
Best you can buy for a very respectable price fitting in the Plasma range.
If you are a movie lover, go for the 42" plasma, if you also love to
play some Xbox, PS3 or connect a PC to it (affraid of burn ins) or are
a Blu-Ray lover (read, you get a hard-on from watching 1080p instead of
720p) go for the LCD. It rocks.
I am working in an audio-video high end shop in The Netherlands and we received a whole batch of these Pioneer LCD TVs.
The Sharp panels used on these Pioneers are not "any run of the mill panels" as that they are high gloss and what Sony calls: "X-black" or what Samsung calls: "Ultra-X" or "Ultra-Black". These are terms used for smaller sized computer monitors and PSP's to push the blacks in screens. These screens where up to now too black, too glossy and very laggy (extreme amounts of ghosting).
Pioneer has taken this technology and with Sharps help made a very good panel, ONLY the panel is from Sharp, all the other electronics are from Pioneer. This means that just the foil (that is being printed) is made by Sharp, the rest is made by Pioneer.
To compensate for the gloss they added a bunch of filters. At first the LCD seems to be more glossy then the Plasma when standing next to each other but this is just by appearance because the LCD plasma is more black. Yes, the PANEL, is more black then the plasma. This doesn't have to say much about the actual results of picture quality.
Here my full followup review I wrote on my own site:
I actually ordered the 37" LCD for myself which will be in my living room Tuesday next week.
Today, the 13th of august, I had a chance to play around with it all day and I hooked up
several DVD players and HD players and did some color space comparisons
with the Plasmas of Pioneer and LCDs of Sony. (I work in a high end
store so I have the time and possibilities to do this)
To start off, this screen is one of the best LCD screens I have seen.
They are as sharp as the latest Sony screens (which are very
impressive) but are much more black.
Even though the LCD is MORE BLACK then the Plasma (insane I know),
next to the 42" top of the line Plasma of Pioneer it is not in the same
league, (even when turned off, the LCD is more black then the plasma,
but note, it also has a glare of blue)
If a picture has bright spots (overlight) (such as in foreheads of dark
skinned people) a lot of detail gets lost (as in all LCD screens) where
in the plasma there is still a lot of detail present.
But when you crank down the contrast, power up the back light and turn
off all the overdrive features it actually reveals a very good screen,
where maybe with a bit less black, you get an enormous amount of
details and it actually is almost on par with the plasma.
Of course LCD specific quirks are still present. The screen is much
more sharp so its also less quiet to look at (more artifacts on non-hd
sources/less forgiving) even though it spots 100Hz and the 24 frames
cine mode. Considering colors it gets pretty darn close to the plasma
but still can't bring the warmth a plasma can.
For build quality it feels and looks a lot better then the plasmas. The
Plasma screens feature a cheap looking plastic frame (shiny and bobbly)
but the LCD is sharp and neat looking like brushed steel. It's also
more heavy then a similiar sized LCD screen and at 220 watts it
consumes more power then most other LCD screens (Samsung 37" grosses
around 185 watts and a Sharp around 160watts)
Overall its probably the best LCD screen I have seen after some
tweaking in picture quality. The build quality is very good overall and
this is truly beautiful work by Pioneer.
The panel is made by Sharp (which doesn't even uses this panel in their
own TV's in the west) and the ultra black looks very good. Some people
say it's more reflecting then the plasmas, this is NOT true, it's more
black then the plasmas, so it looks like its more shiny. When viewing
they are very much the same.
Best you can buy for a very respectable price fitting in the Plasma range.
If you are a movie lover, go for the 42" plasma, if you also love to
play some Xbox, PS3 or connect a PC to it (affraid of burn ins) or are
a Blu-Ray lover (read, you get a hard-on from watching 1080p instead of
720p) go for the LCD. It rocks.
No idea but I wrote a little review in a different post on the 37" I bought in The Netherlands.
Find it here:
Find it here:
pioneer7
Well-known member
This may be of interest.
New this year to Pioneer's range are LCD screens. In keeping with the KURO branding they are premium models with design and performance being of upmost importance. The finish is superb being described as a 'Luxury cosmetic design' by Pioneer.
The performance is what we have come to expect from KURO products with realistic colour and immense contrast plus of course impressive black levels. The backlight comprises of a 4 colour system instead of the usual 3 wavelengths. This brings in crimson red ensuring a more natural colour balance overall.
Contrast i is boosted to a Dynamic contrast level of 10 000:1 by clever image processing and control of the backlight. This is achieved with no detrimental effects to the overall image. The light sensor on the front provides ambient light information to the processor ensuring the optimal image is always shown.
The screen is ready to tackle any resolution you care to throw at it, the native resolution being 1920x1080p. Full HD is no problem and the processor can happily take 1080p 24Hz . The viewer can then select a Film Mode setting which adapts the processing to suit. 100Hz picture refresh occurs in the image processor making sure the moving images look as good as static ones. Pioneer have always been able to scale standard resolution images and the LCD screens offer superior results from these sources as well.
A PC connection is supplied so the screen can work as a monitor for your computer or video source. All common video inputs appear on the connection panel including 3 HDMI 1.3 connections.
Features
luxury cosmetic design
100Hz picture refresh
anti-reflective filter
high contrast filter
auto-brightness control
under screen fixed speaker
Resolution
1920 x 1080p
Contrast
panel: 2000:1
dynamic: 10 000:1
Connections
3x HDMI
2x SCART
1x side connection (S, composite and audio)
1x CI slot
1x PC input
audio in for PC and component
1x RS232 9 pin connection
Audio
under mounted speaker
2x 10w
Dolby Digital
Dimensions HxWxD
screen only: 581 x 898 x 96.6mm
weight 18kg
screen on stand: 638 x 898 x 281mm
weight: 3kg (swivel stand)
Accessories
aluminium preset remote -included
swivel stand - included
VESA - TBC
New this year to Pioneer's range are LCD screens. In keeping with the KURO branding they are premium models with design and performance being of upmost importance. The finish is superb being described as a 'Luxury cosmetic design' by Pioneer.
The performance is what we have come to expect from KURO products with realistic colour and immense contrast plus of course impressive black levels. The backlight comprises of a 4 colour system instead of the usual 3 wavelengths. This brings in crimson red ensuring a more natural colour balance overall.
Contrast i is boosted to a Dynamic contrast level of 10 000:1 by clever image processing and control of the backlight. This is achieved with no detrimental effects to the overall image. The light sensor on the front provides ambient light information to the processor ensuring the optimal image is always shown.
The screen is ready to tackle any resolution you care to throw at it, the native resolution being 1920x1080p. Full HD is no problem and the processor can happily take 1080p 24Hz . The viewer can then select a Film Mode setting which adapts the processing to suit. 100Hz picture refresh occurs in the image processor making sure the moving images look as good as static ones. Pioneer have always been able to scale standard resolution images and the LCD screens offer superior results from these sources as well.
A PC connection is supplied so the screen can work as a monitor for your computer or video source. All common video inputs appear on the connection panel including 3 HDMI 1.3 connections.
Features
luxury cosmetic design
100Hz picture refresh
anti-reflective filter
high contrast filter
auto-brightness control
under screen fixed speaker
Resolution
1920 x 1080p
Contrast
panel: 2000:1
dynamic: 10 000:1
Connections
3x HDMI
2x SCART
1x side connection (S, composite and audio)
1x CI slot
1x PC input
audio in for PC and component
1x RS232 9 pin connection
Audio
under mounted speaker
2x 10w
Dolby Digital
Dimensions HxWxD
screen only: 581 x 898 x 96.6mm
weight 18kg
screen on stand: 638 x 898 x 281mm
weight: 3kg (swivel stand)
Accessories
aluminium preset remote -included
swivel stand - included
VESA - TBC
pioneer7
Well-known member
This may be of interest
New this year to Pioneer's range are LCD screens. In keeping with the KURO branding they are premium models with design and performance being of upmost importance. The finish is superb being described as a 'Luxury cosmetic design' by Pioneer.
The performance is what we have come to expect from KURO products with realistic colour and immense contrast plus of course impressive black levels. The backlight comprises of a 4 colour system instead of the usual 3 wavelengths. This brings in crimson red ensuring a more natural colour balance overall.
Contrast i is boosted to a Dynamic contrast level of 10 000:1 by clever image processing and control of the backlight. This is achieved with no detrimental effects to the overall image. The light sensor on the front provides ambient light information to the processor ensuring the optimal image is always shown.
The screen is ready to tackle any resolution you care to throw at it, the native resolution being 1920x1080p. Full HD is no problem and the processor can happily take 1080p 24Hz . The viewer can then select a Film Mode setting which adapts the processing to suit. 100Hz picture refresh occurs in the image processor making sure the moving images look as good as static ones. Pioneer have always been able to scale standard resolution images and the LCD screens offer superior results from these sources as well.
A PC connection is supplied so the screen can work as a monitor for your computer or video source. All common video inputs appear on the connection panel including 3 HDMI 1.3 connections.
Features
luxury cosmetic design
100Hz picture refresh
anti-reflective filter
high contrast filter
auto-brightness control
under screen fixed speaker
Resolution
1920 x 1080p
Contrast
panel: 2000:1
dynamic: 10 000:1
Connections
3x HDMI
2x SCART
1x side connection (S, composite and audio)
1x CI slot
1x PC input
audio in for PC and component
1x RS232 9 pin connection
Audio
under mounted speaker
2x 10w
Dolby Digital
Dimensions HxWxD
screen only: 581 x 898 x 96.6mm
weight 18kg
screen on stand: 638 x 898 x 281mm
weight: 3kg (swivel stand)
Accessories
aluminium preset remote -included
swivel stand - included
VESA - TBC
New this year to Pioneer's range are LCD screens. In keeping with the KURO branding they are premium models with design and performance being of upmost importance. The finish is superb being described as a 'Luxury cosmetic design' by Pioneer.
The performance is what we have come to expect from KURO products with realistic colour and immense contrast plus of course impressive black levels. The backlight comprises of a 4 colour system instead of the usual 3 wavelengths. This brings in crimson red ensuring a more natural colour balance overall.
Contrast i is boosted to a Dynamic contrast level of 10 000:1 by clever image processing and control of the backlight. This is achieved with no detrimental effects to the overall image. The light sensor on the front provides ambient light information to the processor ensuring the optimal image is always shown.
The screen is ready to tackle any resolution you care to throw at it, the native resolution being 1920x1080p. Full HD is no problem and the processor can happily take 1080p 24Hz . The viewer can then select a Film Mode setting which adapts the processing to suit. 100Hz picture refresh occurs in the image processor making sure the moving images look as good as static ones. Pioneer have always been able to scale standard resolution images and the LCD screens offer superior results from these sources as well.
A PC connection is supplied so the screen can work as a monitor for your computer or video source. All common video inputs appear on the connection panel including 3 HDMI 1.3 connections.
Features
luxury cosmetic design
100Hz picture refresh
anti-reflective filter
high contrast filter
auto-brightness control
under screen fixed speaker
Resolution
1920 x 1080p
Contrast
panel: 2000:1
dynamic: 10 000:1
Connections
3x HDMI
2x SCART
1x side connection (S, composite and audio)
1x CI slot
1x PC input
audio in for PC and component
1x RS232 9 pin connection
Audio
under mounted speaker
2x 10w
Dolby Digital
Dimensions HxWxD
screen only: 581 x 898 x 96.6mm
weight 18kg
screen on stand: 638 x 898 x 281mm
weight: 3kg (swivel stand)
Accessories
aluminium preset remote -included
swivel stand - included
VESA - TBC
Gotta be honest with you here:
Quote: "Contrast i is boosted to a Dynamic contrast level of 10 000:1 by clever
image processing and control of the backlight. This is achieved with no
detrimental effects to the overall image."
Can't really agree with that.
Yes, the screen is superb, and yes the 4 wavelength matters!
But the Dynamic contrast level, if on full power DOES effect the overall image in a NEGATIVE way. So, there is some detrimental effect.
Quote: "Contrast i is boosted to a Dynamic contrast level of 10 000:1 by clever
image processing and control of the backlight. This is achieved with no
detrimental effects to the overall image."
Can't really agree with that.
Yes, the screen is superb, and yes the 4 wavelength matters!
But the Dynamic contrast level, if on full power DOES effect the overall image in a NEGATIVE way. So, there is some detrimental effect.
I believe so, but, I don't think there will be a day that LCD will surpass plasma. Not until OLED anyway.
Still, this is the best damn thing next to plasma.
If you take in mind that the 428XD is going to be dropped, and there won't be a new 42" in Pioneers stable, it's not the question if its better, its more the questions if its a respectable replacement.
And it sure is, especially if you don't like some of the cons of plasma (burn in's, lower resolution, higher price, heavier, larger, more heat) over LCDs, this is an excellent replacement.
You won't find a better LCD screen, except maybe the latest and greatest Beovision.
This Bang & Olufsen screen also uses the same Sharp panel but goes for about 4 times the price. Picture quality is similar but has an extra glass plate over the image with some special funky coating.
Still, this is the best damn thing next to plasma.
If you take in mind that the 428XD is going to be dropped, and there won't be a new 42" in Pioneers stable, it's not the question if its better, its more the questions if its a respectable replacement.
And it sure is, especially if you don't like some of the cons of plasma (burn in's, lower resolution, higher price, heavier, larger, more heat) over LCDs, this is an excellent replacement.
You won't find a better LCD screen, except maybe the latest and greatest Beovision.
This Bang & Olufsen screen also uses the same Sharp panel but goes for about 4 times the price. Picture quality is similar but has an extra glass plate over the image with some special funky coating.
astute:
If you take in mind that the 428XD is going to be dropped, and there won't be a new 42" in Pioneers stable, it's not the question if its better, its more the questions if its a respectable replacement.
And it sure is, especially if you don't like some of the cons of plasma (burn in's, lower resolution, higher price, heavier, larger, more heat) over LCDs, this is an excellent replacement.
I think that is the main point. It has to be a viable replacement. The annoying thing though is that Pioneer has not provided a direct replacement in the 42" bracket and that you know have to chose between a 37" or 46" screen. The 37" is coming to the market at a huge premium over its competitors and will need to be something truly special to justify it's pricetag. From your review it does sound very good and I now can't wait to see it.
If you take in mind that the 428XD is going to be dropped, and there won't be a new 42" in Pioneers stable, it's not the question if its better, its more the questions if its a respectable replacement.
And it sure is, especially if you don't like some of the cons of plasma (burn in's, lower resolution, higher price, heavier, larger, more heat) over LCDs, this is an excellent replacement.
I think that is the main point. It has to be a viable replacement. The annoying thing though is that Pioneer has not provided a direct replacement in the 42" bracket and that you know have to chose between a 37" or 46" screen. The 37" is coming to the market at a huge premium over its competitors and will need to be something truly special to justify it's pricetag. From your review it does sound very good and I now can't wait to see it.
The Pioneer is far from competitively priced. Do note, that the Kuro's never were. All Pioneers displays are more expensive then the likes of plasma in the same size.
But ask yourself, were they worth the extra money.
Note a part of the price is "air" because of Pioneer wanting the profile themselves as a premium brand. So I guess you can add up the extra 100 euros for that.
Although the screen getting close to the Pioneer is the Panasonic TX-37LZD800 or a top of the line Ambilight from Philips (which has Ambilight and Pioneer not, but it'll probably break quicker too).
These screens are 1699,- and 1799,- euros. Opposing to the 1899,- pricetag on the Pioneer.
Just 100,-/200,- euros difference, no ambilight, but much better picture and build quality over these other to premium brands.
Sharp, Samsung, Sony and JVC don't surpass the 1400,- euro for their 37" screens.
But ask yourself, were they worth the extra money.
Note a part of the price is "air" because of Pioneer wanting the profile themselves as a premium brand. So I guess you can add up the extra 100 euros for that.
Although the screen getting close to the Pioneer is the Panasonic TX-37LZD800 or a top of the line Ambilight from Philips (which has Ambilight and Pioneer not, but it'll probably break quicker too).
These screens are 1699,- and 1799,- euros. Opposing to the 1899,- pricetag on the Pioneer.
Just 100,-/200,- euros difference, no ambilight, but much better picture and build quality over these other to premium brands.
Sharp, Samsung, Sony and JVC don't surpass the 1400,- euro for their 37" screens.
Don't get me wrong, I do do agree with you. Before buying my 4280XD plasma, I tested it side by side with the best of the competition at the time. The results persuaded me to come up with the extra cash to get the Pioneer. But you have to remember the fact that despite people like me being willing to pay the extra, there were many who were not and it's what forced Pioneer to shrink their business model. You can justify charging more for a product by using superior components, as Pioneer have always done - especially in producing their own glass, but once people thinking that you're charging for "air", as you quite nicely put it, they'll start to walk away, no matter how good the product is. Trying to position yourself as a 'premium' brand in the consumer AV market is suicide. You can't JUST target the connoisseurs if you want to maintain your business. It's not like the automobile market anymore where people will pay more for the badge. Sony have found this recently in the face of stiffer competition and they have priced their new sets to reflect that. Philips has pulled out of the US market altogether because of the competition over there.
These sets will be outstanding. I have absolutely no doubt about that. The problem, though, is that unless the out-of-box settings are maximised for poor quality terrestrial feeds (which the plasmas certainly weren't), they're going to be set up badly in high stores stores everywhere and lined up along the competition which potential customers wondering why it costs double. At that point, they might happily settle for the Panasonic. I'd love a 32" LCD for my bedroom wall but the idea of it costing more than the 42" plasma in my living room would be a hard pill to swallow, no matter how good it is.
These sets will be outstanding. I have absolutely no doubt about that. The problem, though, is that unless the out-of-box settings are maximised for poor quality terrestrial feeds (which the plasmas certainly weren't), they're going to be set up badly in high stores stores everywhere and lined up along the competition which potential customers wondering why it costs double. At that point, they might happily settle for the Panasonic. I'd love a 32" LCD for my bedroom wall but the idea of it costing more than the 42" plasma in my living room would be a hard pill to swallow, no matter how good it is.
Do they have a 46 inch on the way? I thought that 37 inch is the largest LCD that they have announced?
Ahhh. So it makes sense then. I guess having a 37, 42 and 46 would be a bit too much so they decided to axe the 42 inch size.
Sorry to start the same way as you did, Don't get me wrong, I do do agree with you.
First off, the whole premium brand positioning mostly comes as in that they don't want to end up on webstores for dumping prices.
Brands like Loewe and Bang and Olufsen have managed to get into this place, Loewe has lowered their prices to stay competitive and lost some of their market because they ended up too cheap and not exclusive enough.
Bang and Olufsen are just mad Danish folks who said "some words not allowed on english websites", we are asking premium premium prices. So, if you want to pay 20.000 euros for a TV, we got you covered. They lost also a large part of their market share because in the old days, they were expensive but not insanely expensive.
Pioneer kind of floats in the middle their, they are all struggling with recession and trying to keep their heads above water.
Sony did an excellent job, they went from the "widescreen flatron" brand to a not so special kind of boring LCD maker, but now with their "frame" screens (white body with a black frame) to a brand with style and class.
Samsung came out of nowhere as a cheap B-brand to become a modern, young stylish sleek budget brand.
Sharp and JVC are making very competitivly prices screens with no nonsense good quality panels but their designs and features lack behind the pack.
Coming to Philips (my countries brand) they are actually doing pretty good in the US with their TV's. (link)
Now they are struggling because of the "a word dat says extremely that is forbidden on this website" dollar and stable euro (opposing to the also struggling Japanese Yen).
But thanks to Ambilight and the feature loving Americans they are doing very well. Not only that, but the whole ambilight thing fits in very well because of Philips being know as the pioneer (no pun intended) in the light world.
But yes, it totally sucks that the Pioneer is not set up out of the factory in the right settings, but it might actually fool the masses. Because no factory setting is the one you want at home (except the plasma kuros).
If you watch in TV stores, colors are too bright, sharpness is toned down or set to extreme and they use these fake demo HD boxes to feed uncompressed HD 1080p over HDMI.
In this perspective, the Pioneer will have good results with the right picture, it will show immense blacks out of the box, it will show good refresh rates and with the demo Pioneer delivers it just looks fantastic. But as soon as you connect that DVD player and you put in a movie like Bad Boys 2 (which I used to test (good colors, weird colors, loads of action, dark skinned people) you are missing out loads of details, especially if you put a splitter in between and let it run side by side with the 42" Kuro.
There is this shot of Martin Lawrence and Will Smith their boss sitting at a desk, it has some statues on it, wooden african statues, dark wood. At the LCD, they were just contours, at the plasma you were able to see details.
First off, the whole premium brand positioning mostly comes as in that they don't want to end up on webstores for dumping prices.
Brands like Loewe and Bang and Olufsen have managed to get into this place, Loewe has lowered their prices to stay competitive and lost some of their market because they ended up too cheap and not exclusive enough.
Bang and Olufsen are just mad Danish folks who said "some words not allowed on english websites", we are asking premium premium prices. So, if you want to pay 20.000 euros for a TV, we got you covered. They lost also a large part of their market share because in the old days, they were expensive but not insanely expensive.
Pioneer kind of floats in the middle their, they are all struggling with recession and trying to keep their heads above water.
Sony did an excellent job, they went from the "widescreen flatron" brand to a not so special kind of boring LCD maker, but now with their "frame" screens (white body with a black frame) to a brand with style and class.
Samsung came out of nowhere as a cheap B-brand to become a modern, young stylish sleek budget brand.
Sharp and JVC are making very competitivly prices screens with no nonsense good quality panels but their designs and features lack behind the pack.
Coming to Philips (my countries brand) they are actually doing pretty good in the US with their TV's. (link)
Now they are struggling because of the "a word dat says extremely that is forbidden on this website" dollar and stable euro (opposing to the also struggling Japanese Yen).
But thanks to Ambilight and the feature loving Americans they are doing very well. Not only that, but the whole ambilight thing fits in very well because of Philips being know as the pioneer (no pun intended) in the light world.
But yes, it totally sucks that the Pioneer is not set up out of the factory in the right settings, but it might actually fool the masses. Because no factory setting is the one you want at home (except the plasma kuros).
If you watch in TV stores, colors are too bright, sharpness is toned down or set to extreme and they use these fake demo HD boxes to feed uncompressed HD 1080p over HDMI.
In this perspective, the Pioneer will have good results with the right picture, it will show immense blacks out of the box, it will show good refresh rates and with the demo Pioneer delivers it just looks fantastic. But as soon as you connect that DVD player and you put in a movie like Bad Boys 2 (which I used to test (good colors, weird colors, loads of action, dark skinned people) you are missing out loads of details, especially if you put a splitter in between and let it run side by side with the 42" Kuro.
There is this shot of Martin Lawrence and Will Smith their boss sitting at a desk, it has some statues on it, wooden african statues, dark wood. At the LCD, they were just contours, at the plasma you were able to see details.
Warning:
This TV does NOT do 1080p over COMPONENT or over VGA.
So first generation upscaling DVD player owners or Xbox 360 owners who only can choose between component and VGA are stuck on 720p.
This TV does NOT do 1080p over COMPONENT or over VGA.
So first generation upscaling DVD player owners or Xbox 360 owners who only can choose between component and VGA are stuck on 720p.
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