New DAC Fan

[chebby]

the record spot:chebby:
the record spot: If you want to faff around with backing up.

Yes indeed, because the ONLY reason you would need to back up your computer regularly is if you have your music on it.

I am always telling the family that our thousands of photographs can go to hell and the 17 year-olds revision notes and essays can rot. My wife's writing can take a walk. I am ONLY going to back up the one computer with my iTunes on it.

Good grief.

Good grief yerself Chebby; I didn't mention diddly about the good sense in backing up in general, but I know of plenty who've saved, uploaded and seen their latest collection go "ffft" in one fell swoop. They don't back up an entire disc every time they've loaded up a new CD, so maybe once a month and it's, to paraphrase an old Motorhead tune, a goner.

No doubt, your wife backs up, you use flickr, or photobucket (we don't use the laptop for photos anyway, except as the medium to connect the camera to the web).....blah blah, yeah I get your point, but the process of uploading and ripping is a little more detailed than making a Word doc copy no? Unless "Save As" has become significantly more convoluted overnight at any rate.

Good grief indeed.

Sorry just naked sarcasm aimed at a ridiculous statement about backups and 'faffing'.

 

[idc]

chebby:

There is a price though. In order to match or exceed the quality of music through a DAC I had to get a CD player that now retails for almost five times the cost of the DAC!

That is the part that works for me.

 

[the record spot]

chebby:

Sorry just naked sarcasm aimed at a ridiculous statement about backups and 'faffing'.

No probs. Trust you'll treat my subsequent disdain likewise. I'll just go and backup my entire LP collection whilst I'm at it. [/rolleyes]

 

[chebby]

the record spot:....but the process of uploading and ripping is a little more detailed than making a Word doc copy no?

No, not really. Pop in the CD and iTunes rips it. I can play other stuff while it is doing so or start playing the ripped files as soon as the first track is done. (Typically a few seconds.)

Ok I have to click on the 'eject' symbol afterwards so yes it is a bit complicated.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm quite pro computer based music, in fact I'm sort of coming from that direction towards hifi. CDs have been a carrier of data, inserted once into my mac and ripped to (160/192/256 -> lossless) I never used to play CDs and in fact didn't intend to get a CDP at all, but a friend gave me one. I do quite like the putting a CD on experience, but I feel like I'm cheating on last.fm =) I'll be getting a DAC soon, ordering an iBasso D10.

That said, I wanted to comment on a lot of the value comparisons that are made on here between a DAC and a CDP. The DacMagic and Beresford get favourable comparisons to 700-1000 pound CD players. There is a hidden cost which negates much of the difference. The computer, wireless streaming device, external drives for backup make up a lot of the difference. Even assuming you put an older laptop into service as a music store there is still 2-300 pounds of streaming and drives to account for.

I think the value proposition and flexibility offered by iTunes, lossless and a DAC is fantastic, but lets not oversell this too much. DAC, plus computer etc is about the same in terms of cost as a 700 pound CDP. I think you get a lot more for your money though.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
Ok I have to click on the 'eject' symbol afterwards so yes it is a bit complicated.

Import and Eject is an option which I think has been around for a while. I plan a few long evenings sat by my old powerbook and a stack of CDs soon. feeding it CDs and myself some wine...

 

[Lost Angeles]

zzgavin:

I'm quite pro computer based music, in fact I'm sort of coming from that direction towards hifi. CDs have been a carrier of data, inserted once into my mac and ripped to (160/192/256 -> lossless) I never used to play CDs and in fact didn't intend to get a CDP at all, but a friend gave me one. I do quite like the putting a CD on experience, but I feel like I'm cheating on last.fm =) I'll be getting a DAC soon, ordering an iBasso D10.

That said, I wanted to comment on a lot of the value comparisons that are made on here between a DAC and a CDP. The DacMagic and Beresford get favourable comparisons to 700-1000 pound CD players. There is a hidden cost which negates much of the difference. The computer, wireless streaming device, external drives for backup make up a lot of the difference. Even assuming you put an older laptop into service as a music store there is still 2-300 pounds of streaming and drives to account for.

I think the value proposition and flexibility offered by iTunes, lossless and a DAC is fantastic, but lets not oversell this too much. DAC, plus computer etc is about the same in terms of cost as a 700 pound CDP. I think you get a lot more for your money though.

And if you are only using it for music there is still the cost of a firewall and anti-virus to upgrade every year
The Toshiba used in the WHF review was over £1000

 

[John Duncan]

I have a computer anyway...

 

[idc]

JohnDuncan:I have a computer anyway...

For me adding the DAC is just that, it fits in with was already there and is needed irrespective of the music. There is an additional cost of some cables and a larger hard drive to accommodate the music files (£150 for what I will get) so add the V-DAC at £150 and there is still a huge saving.

(The V8P comes with a USB DAC built in, so the V-DAC is an upgrade, as is the hard drive, so the actual getting started cost was a USB cable at £27, thats it)

 

[Lost Angeles]

JohnDuncan:I have a computer anyway...

I'm trying to highlight hidden costs.
In 23 years my TT has cost me a new belt and cartridge (I know I should have changed them before)
Not many computers will last 23 years.

And before anyone has a go at me. 2 weeks ago I fitted an Ethernet point in our conservatory to join the one in the lounge so we are getting there.

 

[idc]

I don't see the computer as a hidden cost. It is a vital tool for online banking, shopping, this forum and looking at mufty. Its musical abilities were unknown to me at first and have been an added bonus and a cheap bonus at that.

 

[chebby]

Everyone has a computer. (We have three)

Someone who has never had a computer is very unlikely to go out and buy one just to load music onto.

This is a bit like counting the cost of the room the hifi is used in, or the furniture you sit on when listening.

(I am waiting for someone to answer here online that they have never used a computer.)

 

[idc]

...or the cost of buying CDs to put into the CD player?!! Now if I could get a CDP that could do other stuff as well, ooo, I can, its called a computer (sarcastic unbecoming I know, sorry in advance).

 

[Lost Angeles]

idc:...or the cost of buying CDs to put into the CD player?!! Now if I could get a CDP that could do other stuff as well, ooo, I can, its called a computer (sarcastic unbecoming I know, sorry in advance).

I might be wrong again but don't you have to pay for downloads and you have to have bought the CD in the first place to rip it or do you borrow your mates.

 

[Anonymous]

Lost Angeles:zzgavin:

I'm quite pro computer based music, in fact I'm sort of coming from that direction towards hifi. CDs have been a carrier of data, inserted once into my mac and ripped to (160/192/256 -> lossless) I never used to play CDs and in fact didn't intend to get a CDP at all, but a friend gave me one. I do quite like the putting a CD on experience, but I feel like I'm cheating on last.fm =) I'll be getting a DAC soon, ordering an iBasso D10.

That said, I wanted to comment on a lot of the value comparisons that are made on here between a DAC and a CDP. The DacMagic and Beresford get favourable comparisons to 700-1000 pound CD players. There is a hidden cost which negates much of the difference. The computer, wireless streaming device, external drives for backup make up a lot of the difference. Even assuming you put an older laptop into service as a music store there is still 2-300 pounds of streaming and drives to account for.

I think the value proposition and flexibility offered by iTunes, lossless and a DAC is fantastic, but lets not oversell this too much. DAC, plus computer etc is about the same in terms of cost as a 700 pound CDP. I think you get a lot more for your money though.

And if you are only using it for music there is still the cost of a firewall and anti-virus to upgrade every year
The Toshiba used in the WHF review was over £1000

If you are only using it for music, you don't need a firewall or anti-virus, unless you're downloading music from dodgy sources (which I am sure you are not). If you use it for other thing's, then yes, you do need that software, but if that's the case then you already own a computer, and therefore by basing your music system around it you are getting your 'source' for free.

On 'faffing' and the perceived inconvenience of ripping music:

While you are repeatedly getting up to change the CD so
you can listen to something else, or listen to the songs in a different
order, or you've simply reached the end of an album, I can continue to lounge on
the sofa, with all my favourite music playing in exactly the order I
want for hours on end because I spent three minutes ripping a CD months
ago.

The major counter-argument to the 'inconvenience' of
having to Rip CD's is that you only have to do it once, ever. If you
listen to a CD 100 times you have to get up and change the disc 100
times. I rip a CD once and then never have to worry about it again. Not to mention, once you've set a CD to rip, you can listen to
some of your other digital music at the same time anyway!

 

[Lost Angeles]

Spiffy I agree with everythig you wrote but I find that searching through my CDs or LPs I will see something and think "Yes I'll play that" but on my MP3 player which is quite old I've got stuff on which I don't get to play as I've forgot it's on there. Perhaps when I get a new IPod with a flashy front sceen it will be easier to see what's available. I hope so.

 

[chebby]

There is 'life' beyond the CD or the Lossless rip.

There are thousands of internet radio stations. There is last.fm and Spotify. There is BBC iPlayer. Youtube and so on....

Even without the computer (or the the CD player) there is Freeview radio connected with optical via the DAC from your DVD recorder or Freeview box or cable, and all those sky boxes and PS3's etc.

We ought to look beyond just the duplication of a pre-existent CD collection in some lossless format or other.

The DAC and a computer offers so much more.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Lost Angeles:
JohnDuncan:I have a computer anyway...

I'm trying to highlight hidden costs.
In 23 years my TT has cost me a new belt and cartridge (I know I should have changed them before)
Not many computers will last 23 years.

And before anyone has a go at me. 2 weeks ago I fitted an Ethernet point in our conservatory to join the one in the lounge so we are getting there.

I can see what you are saying but most people have a computer these days - probably more than those that have a dedicated cd player. You could throw another slant on the argument. I paid £400 for my rack and the same company quoted me around the same for 2 cd racks. I don't need them now as my cds are stored in plastic boxes and are out of sight in the garage.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't get me wrong, i'm not gonna get rid of my CD player and i too like "owning" the CD itself. I will still buy Cd's, but will burn them onto my PC also. I just found this a cost effective solution to my CD player issue. Rather than get the player repaired, or even upgrade and spend the best part of £600-700 i thought i would give this a try. I'm very glad i did.

 

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:I have a computer anyway...

Do you use the same computer for your music? I seem to remember you have a NAS box, so probably you do.

The computer can be used for different things I agree, but there are still the other costs. I'm not saying this is wrong, just that it is not as simple as 100 pound DAC bests 1000 pound CDP, which seems to be a bit of a theme here,

A DAC remains great value for money, but it is not a factor of 10.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
We ought to look beyond just the duplication of a pre-existent CD collection in some lossless format or other.

The DAC and a computer offers so much more.

Absolutely, mine acts as a TV recorder too via the eyetv DTT box

 

[Anonymous]

I agree, and think that everbody's situation is different. For me, i would have probably had to spend either a fair few quid with Arcam getting it repaired, or knowing me upgrade to a Rega Apollo or something like that (£600) or spend a total of £200 on a DAC and a TB HD for storage. I have a work laptop fortunately, which costs me nothing, so for me i think this was the best solution. It also adds flexibility into my listening. I appreciate though, that for people that buy a laptop etc for PC music, then the costs can escalate. There is no hard and fast rule (as with much in Hi-Fi) as to what the single best solution is, it is what works for YOU.

 

[Lost Angeles]

So returning to something I wrote earlier
I can sit in my armchair with my laptop connected to Airport Express(or similar) which beams a signal to a second AP in my rack and I can control what I listen to by the laptop?.
If I use an ipod as a remote control does that send a wireless signal to a dock in my rack which connects to a DAC?
Can I use the ipod to retrieve music from an external hard drive in my rack or would that need to be done from computer?

Thanks. I am converted.

 

[Anonymous]

Your laptop can connect wirelessly to the Airport express, which is then connected to the amp.

You only need the one Airport Express.

If you want to have an iPod Touch or iPhone controlling the music, then you need to have a computer running iTunes connected wirelessly to the Airport Express.

Or you can have a Sonos doing the same job, as long as there is a computer or NAS with the music on it running too

You can't have an iPod pulling music off an external HD on your rack, you need a computer or a sonos (or squeezebox) connected to a NAS (a NAS is a set of hard disks with an ethernet port, essentially a very pared down computer)

A laptop with external drives and an iPhone is a good combination with a wireless network.

You can either connect the laptop directly to the DAC and skip the streaming the music or stream it over the network from a remote computer. I've tried both and prefer connecting directly, as the wifi quality in our area is pants.

hope that helps

 

[78finn]

Up until recently I had considered a laptop / DAC combo.......but I demo'd a few setups and wasn't all that impressed at all really. Sounded ok, but not better than a CD - probably about the same. And it will NEVER touch vinyl in terms of warmth and richness of sound!!!! .
Besides I think downloading music or playing music from a computer is just completely soulless and lazy. There's no excitement, no anticipation.....no record store.....it's a fast food musical concept for people that don't really like music on any real level. Buying a single track at a time off of iTunes...hmmmm......iTunes, basically a try hard corporate giant that claims to be down with the kids, wraps itself in stainless steel and shiny white plastic.... Oh and anyone who thinks MAC or iTunes is cool should basically take a long hard look at their lives...because something is badly wrong. Seek urgent medical attention.
I for one will never touch a wav, MP3 or whatever the next generation of tat is.
Throughout your CD players maybe....but whilst you're at it throw out your laptop as well................and get down the record store and buy a really real album..........on vinyl - not on a virtually real lossless lump. So to some up....vinyl, it's the future past.....or something else profound sounding.