New cumbersome trends

[stereoman]

Hello to you,

there was someone here posting a word about speed change troubles etc. what made me write about it. In fact for a longer time I've been wondering why so many TT producers make their own stuff so complicated ? First of all I mean speed change. Ok , so there are let's say 3 most used ones and rather 2 - 33,3 and 45. 78 are pretty rare. Many TT demand that a user take off the plate and manually change the belt on the other pulley to adjust the speeds between 33 and 45. Guys, this is terrible. Rega , some ProJect and new entry TT ( even some more expensive stuff ) have this cumbersome techniques. Many people want a quick access to such substantial things. Many manual TT have the pulleys outside the plates and of course that makes things easier. But still. Secondly, ok , if TT are to built with better sound quality then they are not anymore automatic - but why not semi-automatic where AT LEAST the needle lifts up at the end of the record ? I just do not get it

Please explain, is it really necessary ?

 

[brownz]

Hello to you,

there was someone here posting a word about speed change troubles etc. what made me write about it. In fact for a longer time I've been wondering why so many TT producers make their own stuff so complicated ? First of all I mean speed change. Ok , so there are let's say 3 most used ones and rather 2 - 33,3 and 45. 78 are pretty rare. Many TT demand that a user take off the plate and manually change the belt on the other pulley to adjust the speeds between 33 and 45. Guys, this is terrible. Rega , some ProJect and new entry TT ( even some more expensive stuff ) have this cumbersome techniques. Many people want a quick access to such substantial things. Many manual TT have the pulleys outside the plates and of course that makes things easier. But still. Secondly, ok , if TT are to built with better sound quality then they are not anymore automatic - but why not semi-automatic where AT LEAST the needle lifts up at the end of the record ? I just do not get it

Please explain, is it really necessary ?

Adding any extra electronics e.g. speed control, automation etc adds complexity, more components, more things to go wrong, more things to influence and affect signal quality etc, and adds cost. A simple motor with a pulley and an on/off switch is a pretty dumb circuit and keeps component and manufacturing costs to a minimum. You pay more money you get more features.

 

[Al ears]

Hello to you,

there was someone here posting a word about speed change troubles etc. what made me write about it. In fact for a longer time I've been wondering why so many TT producers make their own stuff so complicated ? First of all I mean speed change. Ok , so there are let's say 3 most used ones and rather 2 - 33,3 and 45. 78 are pretty rare. Many TT demand that a user take off the plate and manually change the belt on the other pulley to adjust the speeds between 33 and 45. Guys, this is terrible. Rega , some ProJect and new entry TT ( even some more expensive stuff ) have this cumbersome techniques. Many people want a quick access to such substantial things. Many manual TT have the pulleys outside the plates and of course that makes things easier. But still. Secondly, ok , if TT are to built with better sound quality then they are not anymore automatic - but why not semi-automatic where AT LEAST the needle lifts up at the end of the record ? I just do not get it

Please explain, is it really necessary ?

Adding any extra electronics e.g. speed control, automation etc adds complexity, more components, more things to go wrong, more things to influence and affect signal quality etc, and adds cost. A simple motor with a pulley and an on/off switch is a pretty dumb circuit and keeps component and manufacturing costs to a minimum. You pay more money you get more features.

+1

Pretty much my opinions to. You'll be wanting a remote control next.

If you cannot be bothered to get off your bottom when a record ends then maybe a vinyl re-think is required. ;-)

You can get these devices, especially on older decks, if you want them. Most manufacturers considered then superfluous and under-used so stopped adding the extra complexities.

For many even 45 rpm is superfluous as the only play LPs so the manual speed change means nothing. To keep costs down the stepped pulley has been employed for years with some manufacturers selling an upgrade in the form of a speed box for those that require it.

 

[nopiano]

Dual were the masters of the automatic and auto lift turntable, but they seem pretty much extinct now. I had a rare belt-drive CS-601 which came as standard with a Shure V-15/iii cartridge, which tracked at about 1.2 grams. That was very good in its day, and the arm also coped well with a Satin moving coil cartridge, also unusual in having a user replaceable stylus

If the boom in LP replay continues I wouldn't bet against a return of 'end of side' lift.

 

[stereoman]

Hello to you,

there was someone here posting a word about speed change troubles etc. what made me write about it. In fact for a longer time I've been wondering why so many TT producers make their own stuff so complicated ? First of all I mean speed change. Ok , so there are let's say 3 most used ones and rather 2 - 33,3 and 45. 78 are pretty rare. Many TT demand that a user take off the plate and manually change the belt on the other pulley to adjust the speeds between 33 and 45. Guys, this is terrible. Rega , some ProJect and new entry TT ( even some more expensive stuff ) have this cumbersome techniques. Many people want a quick access to such substantial things. Many manual TT have the pulleys outside the plates and of course that makes things easier. But still. Secondly, ok , if TT are to built with better sound quality then they are not anymore automatic - but why not semi-automatic where AT LEAST the needle lifts up at the end of the record ? I just do not get it

Please explain, is it really necessary ?

You pay more money you get more features.

Not true. Many expensive TT are simply manual as well. The fact of costs does not make a difference that motor can be outside platter to facilitate manual change. Many producers place it under ( not direct drive , just under the plate ). Still many singles are 45s.

Speedboxes are useful but add extra thing on top and can spoil the general design.

 

[MajorFubar]

I find I'm in agreement with the OP to a degree. Manufacturers are eager to make savings wherever they can. Removing the speed change mechanism is an obvious opportunity, and the fact they can sell you the tale that removing superflulous moving parts potentially improves sound quality is just music to the budget-managers' ears (pardon the pun). I've never once considered the SQ from my old TD160 is hampered by the fork-lift speed change. During playback the belt naturally finds a level on the pulley where it doesn't even so much as touch the fork, so the effect on the SQ is diddly-squat. But no doubt removing the mechanism and having the user flip the belt manually would have saved a few Swiss Rappen in parts, which soon mount up when you manufacture these things by the tens of thousand. That's the real reason, aided and abetteted by the fact the sale of 45rpm records have been in decline for 30 years so the likelyhood of people complaining about the inconvenience has got progressively less.

 

[chebby]

Dual were the masters of the automatic and auto lift turntable, but they seem pretty much extinct now.

The Dual CS-505-4 is still being made in Bavaria and costs about 550 - 650 euros brand new. No-one imports them to the UK though, and you'd have to buy from a German hi-fi dealer. (Or Amazon dot de)

http://preisvergleich.check24.de/plattenspieler/dual-cs-505-4.html

 

[jamesrfisher]

It's all part of the experience! You are supposed to stroke your beard as you change the speed.

Speed changing is not an irrelevance, there are a number of new pressing lps that are at 45rpm, I know, I keep getting caught out!

 

[chebby]

It's all part of the experience! You are supposed to stroke your beard as you change the speed.

Well, hipsters certainly have enough beard for that ...

 

[Al ears]

It's all part of the experience! You are supposed to stroke your beard as you change the speed.

Speed changing is not an irrelevance, there are a number of new pressing lps that are at 45rpm, I know, I keep getting caught out!

I was joking, I also have a few 45rpm LPs but then my turntable has a push-button speed change. ;-)

 

[nopiano]

Q

Dual were the masters of the automatic and auto lift turntable, but they seem pretty much extinct now.

The Dual CS-505-4 is still being made in Bavaria and costs about 550 - 650 euros brand new. No-one imports them to the UK though, and you'd have to buy from a German hi-fi dealer. (Or Amazon dot de)

http://preisvergleich.check24.de/plattenspieler/dual-cs-505-4.html

Thanks for the links, chebby. Glad they still exist, and quite surprised nobody has taken up imprting them to the UK. I guess they aren't cool, but if they got a 5 star review from WHF, as they did in the past, it could be a winner. If the price was right...

 

[Al ears]

Q

Dual were the masters of the automatic and auto lift turntable, but they seem pretty much extinct now.

The Dual CS-505-4 is still being made in Bavaria and costs about 550 - 650 euros brand new. No-one imports them to the UK though, and you'd have to buy from a German hi-fi dealer. (Or Amazon dot de)

http://preisvergleich.check24.de/plattenspieler/dual-cs-505-4.html

Thanks for the links, chebby. Glad they still exist, and quite surprised nobody has taken up imprting them to the UK. I guess they aren't cool, but if they got a 5 star review from WHF, as they did in the past, it could be a winner. If the price was right...

At 579 euros they would appear to be a bit of a bargain.

 

[Waxy]

Well OP, if you you resent having to manually change belt position to alter your turntable speed, you would hate my deck. I have to start the platter spinning myself. What a joke! It's not even USB enabled. For Pete's sake!

*help*

 

[thescarletpronster]

I'm looking for one of those auto-changers from the 60s which stacks 6 records and drops down the next record when the current one finishes. Does anyone make one of these to fit the Michell Orbe?

 

[stereoman]

Well OP, if you you resent having to manually change belt position to alter your turntable speed, you would hate my deck. I have to start the platter spinning myself. What a joke! It's not even USB enabled. For Pete's sake!

*help*

But still you spinning it without taking it off...

USB on the other hand is absolutely not important in TT to my opinion.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Many TT demand that a user take off the plate and manually change the belt on the other pulley to adjust the speeds between 33 and 45. Guys, this is terrible. Rega , some ProJect and new entry TT ( even some more expensive stuff ) have this cumbersome techniques.

Please explain, is it really necessary ?

No, it's not necessary. It's a simple solution to spare money for the builder. Don't buy those cumbersome technique products anymore. If they don't sell them anymore, they will be force to make them better.

 

[brownz]

Hello to you,

there was someone here posting a word about speed change troubles etc. what made me write about it. In fact for a longer time I've been wondering why so many TT producers make their own stuff so complicated ? First of all I mean speed change. Ok , so there are let's say 3 most used ones and rather 2 - 33,3 and 45. 78 are pretty rare. Many TT demand that a user take off the plate and manually change the belt on the other pulley to adjust the speeds between 33 and 45. Guys, this is terrible. Rega , some ProJect and new entry TT ( even some more expensive stuff ) have this cumbersome techniques. Many people want a quick access to such substantial things. Many manual TT have the pulleys outside the plates and of course that makes things easier. But still. Secondly, ok , if TT are to built with better sound quality then they are not anymore automatic - but why not semi-automatic where AT LEAST the needle lifts up at the end of the record ? I just do not get it

Please explain, is it really necessary ?

You pay more money you get more features.

Not true. Many expensive TT are simply manual as well. The fact of costs does not make a difference that motor can be outside platter to facilitate manual change. Many producers place it under ( not direct drive , just under the plate ). Still many singles are 45s.

Speedboxes are useful but add extra thing on top and can spoil the general design.

Why did you ask then..... If you're just going to pick one part of my reply, and reply with "Not True".

Jeesh, you try to be helpful..... but you already seem to know the answer.

 

[stereoman]

Hello to you,

there was someone here posting a word about speed change troubles etc. what made me write about it. In fact for a longer time I've been wondering why so many TT producers make their own stuff so complicated ? First of all I mean speed change. Ok , so there are let's say 3 most used ones and rather 2 - 33,3 and 45. 78 are pretty rare. Many TT demand that a user take off the plate and manually change the belt on the other pulley to adjust the speeds between 33 and 45. Guys, this is terrible. Rega , some ProJect and new entry TT ( even some more expensive stuff ) have this cumbersome techniques. Many people want a quick access to such substantial things. Many manual TT have the pulleys outside the plates and of course that makes things easier. But still. Secondly, ok , if TT are to built with better sound quality then they are not anymore automatic - but why not semi-automatic where AT LEAST the needle lifts up at the end of the record ? I just do not get it

Please explain, is it really necessary ?

You pay more money you get more features.

Not true. Many expensive TT are simply manual as well. The fact of costs does not make a difference that motor can be outside platter to facilitate manual change. Many producers place it under ( not direct drive , just under the plate ). Still many singles are 45s.

Speedboxes are useful but add extra thing on top and can spoil the general design.

Why did you ask then..... If you're just going to pick one part of my reply, and reply with "Not True".

Jeesh, you try to be helpful..... but you already seem to know the answer.

Because I think it is not true. The part of your answer is not true and it has nothing to do with my general question. I asked why the companies produce these kinds of TT and obviously why some very expensive TT are produced in this way as well. Cannot see any lack of logic. But do not get offended , I find all replies very useful...

 

[brownz]

Err..... OK.

I obviously missed the point completely !?

I thought I gave a fairly logical explanation to your general question.

Weirdo