New Budget King from Lake District

[davidf]

There's nothing stopping them from sourcing it to other retailers though, after all they named it Fell Audio.

I'd expect them to keep it to themselves, at least until sales start letting up, then open it up to other retailers.

 

[Al ears]

I'd expect them to keep it to themselves, at least until sales start letting up, then open it up to other retailers.

Perhaps the only downfall with what they are doing is the limited way people can actually get to audition them unless they expect everyone to order online and return them if not satisfied. This could lead to a large amount of returned items stacking up in store which surely isn't going to do a lot for them economically.

 

[RTHerringbone]

Agreed. As far as I can tell, they have two physical stores in Cumbria and a third in Newcastle. None of these locations are remotely quick to visit for us Southerners. A minimum of a twelve hour round trip for me up to Carlisle or Newcastle.

Equally though, they may be expecting the bulk of units to sell to people who just want fancy kit without necessarily "knowing" what they're looking for sound-wise.

 

[Jasonovich]

I know this is a sales pitch but it puts things into context and there's more details about the product.
AV Forums has also done their review, a bit more down to earth, less euphorically than Peter Tyson's happy video

View: https://youtu.be/angUXKNkG7Y?si=6lluw7LVQVB3vkUR

View: https://youtu.be/IRqkRgTVYx0?si=icqEDZEde1IJ11oM

View: https://youtu.be/angUXKNkG7Y?si=6lluw7LVQVB3vkUR

 

[davidf]

Perhaps the only downfall with what they are doing is the limited way people can actually get to audition them unless they expect everyone to order online and return them if not satisfied. This could lead to a large amount of returned items stacking up in store which surely isn't going to do a lot for them economically.

It can be a limiting factor, but PT are all about online sales, so even though it's only available from one online store, they can cover the whole country. As I say, when sales start to slow, which they will (and that info will only be available to PT), they can then open it up to retailers to give things a boost.

 

[davidf]

Not quite, the Tyson family from Peter Tyson retailers have developed this brand. The two Tyson brothers developed and designed the amp over a 3 year period. So it's their own in-house brand as opposed to just being an exclusive distributor.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but what do we know as solid facts? Promotional videos can say what they like, but there's a possibility these have been designed by an OEM company, or made by a company who produces their own audio equipment. These could have been produced under license to a third party company. We just down know. Audio engineers design hi-fi, what would a retailer know? Basics maybe, maybe a little more, who knows, maybe they're trained electrical engineers who know audio products inside out? But as owners of a large online sales website, I would be dubious. Maybe they had a say in how they wanted it to look, what they wanted it to do, which would fall under "design", maybe even "development"l I have a design for a pair of (what I feel could be) awesome speakers, but that doesn't mean they're going to sound any good - I'd need audio engineers to tell me that.

And technically, they are exclusive distributors, whether they keep it for themselves or not. And if they don't make the brand available to other retailers, they're also exclusive retailers. I don't really see this as any different to a retailer who takes on distribution of a hi-fi brand (something I'm against).

 

[Hifiman]

Good luck to the company. The design style of their products is reminiscent of the A&R Cambridge A60, which is certainly not a criticism.

 

[Jasonovich]

Good luck to the company. The design style of their products is reminiscent of the A&R Cambridge A60, which is certainly not a criticism.

Yes there is a resemblance in the shape.

I wish they'd kept to their old name A&R Cambridge. Still it didn't work out badly with the rebranding ARCAM.

 

[manicm]

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but what do we know as solid facts? Promotional videos can say what they like, but there's a possibility these have been designed by an OEM company, or made by a company who produces their own audio equipment. These could have been produced under license to a third party company. We just down know. Audio engineers design hi-fi, what would a retailer know? Basics maybe, maybe a little more, who knows, maybe they're trained electrical engineers who know audio products inside out? But as owners of a large online sales website, I would be dubious. Maybe they had a say in how they wanted it to look, what they wanted it to do, which would fall under "design", maybe even "development"l I have a design for a pair of (what I feel could be) awesome speakers, but that doesn't mean they're going to sound any good - I'd need audio engineers to tell me that.

And technically, they are exclusive distributors, whether they keep it for themselves or not. And if they don't make the brand available to other retailers, they're also exclusive retailers. I don't really see this as any different to a retailer who takes on distribution of a hi-fi brand (something I'm against).

Let's say that's true, it's still assembled in the UK and possibly filling a gap that Rega leaves behind. The consumer won't care as long as they're getting a good sound. And all reviews so far have been favourable.

I'm going to be blunt, but I detect some naivety here. I would have no problem in the UK where for example Richer Sounds exclusively sells Cambridge Audio as an example, and another chain for Rotel. I'm probably inaccurate but you get the gist.

This is still better in my country where one distributor exclusively imports 85% of brands from B&W to Cabasse sold here, and you're stuck with them for servicing too, or whoever they delegate to. This also means no real competition, except for literally a few rogue retailers. And all sell mostly online, with a few offices/showrooms where they don't really encourage visits.

This I'm sure is a trend worldwide, and it seems some cannot adapt, albeit unfair.

Fell Audio have produced an attractive trio of products at a fair price, with my only reservation being that the combined price of all 3 would get you a Cambridge Audio Evo 75, which again brings the value proposition of some all in ones which you don't seem too keen on.

On the other end of the chain you have manufacturers like Naim who are now actually sinister, as globally they are forcing retailers to demo equipment exclusively with Focal speakers.

 

[matthewpianist]

I do wonder how they could possibly have developed something from the ground up, sell it at those prices and break even, never mind make any profit. Companies with far greater economies of scale only just manage it, and I suspect the loss of the Apollo and Brio from Rega’s range is partly driven by increasing challenges in producing a product of the right quality around those price points. It would take a very long time for sales of Fell Audio products to be high enough for even lower than normal margins to be sustainable.

Surely quite a lot of the parts are more or less ‘off the shelf’. I’m happy to be surprised, but I seriously doubt there’s someone making disc transports to their own requirements, for example. Even an established brand like Rega sources some parts from outside.

As for distribution to other retailers, that isn’t only down to decisions by Tysons. It may take some persuading for other retailers to take the product on in such a competitive market. Nobody is living in dreamland, able to stock products on a whim, and in a lot of retail environments it’s best to keep things simple by focusing on a carefully chosen portfolio of products that offers choice but without diluting what the retailer stands for and without confusing the customer more than necessary.

I do wish them well, as I do any new venture by an independent company, but these are my reservations.

 

[Al ears]

Let's say that's true, it's still assembled in the UK and possibly filling a gap that Rega leaves behind. The consumer won't care as long as they're getting a good sound. And all reviews so far have been favourable.

I'm going to be blunt, but I detect some naivety here. I would have no problem in the UK where for example Richer Sounds exclusively sells Cambridge Audio as an example, and another chain for Rotel. I'm probably inaccurate but you get the gist.

This is still better in my country where one distributor exclusively imports 85% of brands from B&W to Cabasse sold here, and you're stuck with them for servicing too, or whoever they delegate to. This also means no real competition, except for literally a few rogue retailers. And all sell mostly online, with a few offices/showrooms where they don't really encourage visits.

This I'm sure is a trend worldwide, and it seems some cannot adapt, albeit unfair.

Fell Audio have produced an attractive trio of products at a fair price, with my only reservation being that the combined price of all 3 would get you a Cambridge Audio Evo 75, which again brings the value proposition of some all in ones which you don't seem too keen on.

On the other end of the chain you have manufacturers like Naim who are now actually sinister, as globally they are forcing retailers to demo equipment exclusively with Focal speakers.

I might agree but you talk about the combined price of all 3 and the Evo 75 when you should be taking into account only two, the amp and the streamer. Do we even know the price of the streamer yet??

 

[manicm]

I might agree but you talk about the combined price of all 3 and the Evo 75 when you should be taking into account only two, the amp and the streamer. Do we even know the price of the streamer yet??

Yes and you forego a CD player. The Evo 75 seems to be off sale though.

 

[Al ears]

Yes and you forego a CD player. The Evo 75 seems to be off sale though.

But, as far as I am aware, the Evo 75 doesn't play CDs, it's a steaming amplifier so didn't see the comparison in price reasoning.

 

[davidf]

Let's say that's true, it's still assembled in the UK and possibly filling a gap that Rega leaves behind. The consumer won't care as long as they're getting a good sound. And all reviews so far have been favourable.

I'm going to be blunt, but I detect some naivety here. I would have no problem in the UK where for example Richer Sounds exclusively sells Cambridge Audio as an example, and another chain for Rotel. I'm probably inaccurate but you get the gist.

This is still better in my country where one distributor exclusively imports 85% of brands from B&W to Cabasse sold here, and you're stuck with them for servicing too, or whoever they delegate to. This also means no real competition, except for literally a few rogue retailers. And all sell mostly online, with a few offices/showrooms where they don't really encourage visits.

This I'm sure is a trend worldwide, and it seems some cannot adapt, albeit unfair.

Fell Audio have produced an attractive trio of products at a fair price, with my only reservation being that the combined price of all 3 would get you a Cambridge Audio Evo 75, which again brings the value proposition of some all in ones which you don't seem too keen on.

On the other end of the chain you have manufacturers like Naim who are now actually sinister, as globally they are forcing retailers to demo equipment exclusively with Focal speakers.

One distributor importing a huge amount of brands will mean little to no competition, but they will be able to set their prices to facilitate excellent back up service - in theory. But, I would suspect they're more likely to be a Sound United type outfit that is only interested in yearly growth.

Rotel have a distributor and are open to any retailers, but NAD is one that is linked to a retailer - Sevenblokes. Again, that's more widely available, but behind the scenes, it's Sevenblokes.

I agree with Naim - the pairing isn't even a good one to start with!

 

[davidf]

I do wonder how they could possibly have developed something from the ground up, sell it at those prices and break even, never mind make any profit. Companies with far greater economies of scale only just manage it, and I suspect the loss of the Apollo and Brio from Rega’s range is partly driven by increasing challenges in producing a product of the right quality around those price points. It would take a very long time for sales of Fell Audio products to be high enough for even lower than normal margins to be sustainable.

Surely quite a lot of the parts are more or less ‘off the shelf’. I’m happy to be surprised, but I seriously doubt there’s someone making disc transports to their own requirements, for example. Even an established brand like Rega sources some parts from outside.

As for distribution to other retailers, that isn’t only down to decisions by Tysons. It may take some persuading for other retailers to take the product on in such a competitive market. Nobody is living in dreamland, able to stock products on a whim, and in a lot of retail environments it’s best to keep things simple by focusing on a carefully chosen portfolio of products that offers choice but without diluting what the retailer stands for and without confusing the customer more than necessary.

I do wish them well, as I do any new venture by an independent company, but these are my reservations.

Again, I don't have the facts, so all of this is my own guesswork (from my side of the fence). They've gone for that price point as it's the most popular online price point. I think between £1000-2000 a box would be a big struggle as there's too much competition (almost everybody else), but at the Fell prices, there's a lot less, as some manufacturers are moving more upmarket, and sub £1k is starting to be taken over by Chi-Fi products. A lot of the buying public here would prefer to buy British, especially after the events of the last five years or so. Plus, it takes the same amount of time to make a £2k box as it does a £500 one, so are choosing to make more expensive boxes with a larger return. As you say, to develop from the ground up costs, and I'm sure Tysons have the money to do that, but they'll want quick returns. I may be wrong, but my guess is they've worked with an OEM to get the look they want, and maybe to nurture the sort of sound they want. That's quicker and easier, especially as making it yourself involves setting up a factory...now that really would be a ridiculous cost for just three budget components. And I would guess they have fingers in a few (maybe non hi-fi) pies, many business people do, which all eat up valuable time running on a daily basis.

Hi-Fi brands with a back story sells better than just A.N.Other brand. Most vintage brands have a natural back story, but nowadays, less so. So you need to be able to create something that makes it personal, like it's a company that cares and has the customer's best interest at heart. All the best brands have a story. How much of that story is true, who knows.

With regards to supplying other retailers, I don't think the cost would be an issue, maybe more that there's no track record yet. Fell will hit the ground running and go big guns, have average but healthy sales, or it might tank, nobody knows. Some retailers are happy to stock anything from anybody, but some would rather not line the pockets of other retailers, and choose brands by dedicated distributors.