chris661
Well-known member
Gray, see my post on the previous page. Saying all amplifiers sound the same is blatantly false. It could be successfully argued, however, that all decent-quality class AB amps sound very very similar.
Chris
Chris
TrevC
Well-known member
"Your statement that 'all amplifiers sound very similar'."
That is true. I say you are very unlikely to reliably hear differences between amplifiers with a flat response. See this blind test. http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm
The same goes for CD players, interconnects etc.
That is true. I say you are very unlikely to reliably hear differences between amplifiers with a flat response. See this blind test. http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm
The same goes for CD players, interconnects etc.
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Gray
Well-known member
I saw your post Chris and your theory is a good one.
It's true, of course it is, that some amps do sound similar.
When I purchased my current amp I had three amps at home for a listen.
Cyrus 8, Arcam A85 and Roksan Kandy.
All those manufacturers would probably claim that their amps are 'true to the source', 'add nothing or take nothing away' etc. etc.
Nobody, audiophile, layman or your Mum would regard them to sound 'very similar' I can assure you.
The differences were massive, very real and undeniable.
Now, differences between well designed DACs............'very similar' most certainly applies.
chris661
Well-known member
TrevC
Well-known member
Ah well, I guess he's wrong and I'm right then. 
www.stereophile.com
The Carver Challenge
Is it possible to make a $700 "mainstream-audio" power amplifier sound exactly like a high-priced perfectionist amplifier? Bob Carver, of Carver Corporation, seemed to think he could, so we challenged him to prove it.
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chris661
Well-known member
The Carver Challenge was to see if Bob Carver could make an amp sound like a different amp.
That implies, surely, that amps can and do sound different, subject to different topologies and technologies.
Again, similar amps (as most of them are) sound similar, but there are a wide range of amps out there and some of them do sound very different from one to the next.
Chris
That implies, surely, that amps can and do sound different, subject to different topologies and technologies.
Again, similar amps (as most of them are) sound similar, but there are a wide range of amps out there and some of them do sound very different from one to the next.
Chris
TrevC
Well-known member
So amps sound similar and very different at the same time. But is different better? Or is it worse?
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chris661
Well-known member
Amps that are similar to each other will sound similar.
Most HiFi amps are based on the same technology (class AB, linear power supply) and will therefore sound fairly similar.
Some amps are class D. They might sound different because they operate in a different way.
Some amps use valves. Those usually do sound different to typical amplifiers (which use transistors, operating class AB) as well as each other, because of the wide range of ways that valves can be used.
I feel like you're deliberately missing my point here. Similar amps sound basically the same. Not all amps are similar.
Chris
Most HiFi amps are based on the same technology (class AB, linear power supply) and will therefore sound fairly similar.
Some amps are class D. They might sound different because they operate in a different way.
Some amps use valves. Those usually do sound different to typical amplifiers (which use transistors, operating class AB) as well as each other, because of the wide range of ways that valves can be used.
I feel like you're deliberately missing my point here. Similar amps sound basically the same. Not all amps are similar.
Chris
daytona600
Well-known member
£799 reduced to £599
if you require more bass , move the Kefs near wall or corner or add matching Kef Kube subwoofer or a pair
Musical Fidelity M2si review
Great sound compensates for this amplifier’s comparative lack of features
TrevC
Well-known member
The human ear is very bad at hearing differences in amplifiers with flat response curves and similar distortion levels. That's why auditioning amplifiers is a waste of time, especially so if you try doing it in a shop. Years ago (when my hearing was better) I auditioned some KEF speakers in a shop. I was really impressed, so I bought them. At home they sounded dreadful with huge overblown bass, so I swapped them for Celestions. I used a Musical Fidelity A1 amplifier for years, but when it went wrong I swapped it for a budget Sony. The Sony sounds just as good to my ears, plus it has a remote. One day, when I can be bothered, I will fix the A1 and stick it on Ebay.
daytona600
Well-known member
add a matching MF phono stage £100 will get you a excellent phono stage
Musical Fidelity | V90-LPS Phono Stage
V90-LPS | Phono Stage The V90-LPS is a Phono Stage with outstanding sound quality at a highly affordable price....
Eddifgr2
Active member
Spend £100-£150 on a good 30 year old Rotel 840 BX3 amp and you will be amazed.
Has a great built in phono sound stage and has a switch to bypass the tone dials.
Ive had one for 30 years and the sound is still amazing...
Has a great built in phono sound stage and has a switch to bypass the tone dials.
Ive had one for 30 years and the sound is still amazing...
Thanks for advice that might be an option just worries me a bit buying such an old amp but i do know of one for sale in good condition.
Eddifgr2
Active member
I moved to a Yamaha amp for £700 and went back to my old rotel..
Run a Rega P3 with an AT 750Sh stylus thru a pair of B&W 606's and it sounds amazing.
myrrhman
Well-known member
+1 for the enduring quality of old amps, just decided not to *upgrade* my old Creek 4140, which happily drives speakers which would be considered way out of its league, as well as modern source components like my turntable and DAC.
To pick up on a couple of points upthread, when I bought my amp I'd originally intended to get an Arcam Alpha, which to me seemed like a step up to a well regarded brand, and auditioned it against a Creek 4040. I was surprised by how much I liked the Creek, but to be honest couldn't see a massive difference between them in sound quality, although they did sound *different*. Then the Creek 4140 was added to the mix, and it was a no-brainer - significantly better sound quality. Three things to note:
1) The 4140 was the only amp without tone controls
2) They all sounded clearly 'different' to me
3) I was a lot younger at the time, with correspondingly better hearing!
Eddifgr2
Active member
gasolin
Well-known member
For £200 you can get something better more power full
My Denon PMA-900V cost me €200 + shipping, for power it beats all new £200 amps
For loud music 2x50 watt is the bare minimum with 87 db speakers 80-100 watt pr channel would be perfect
My Denon PMA-900V cost me €200 + shipping, for power it beats all new £200 amps
For loud music 2x50 watt is the bare minimum with 87 db speakers 80-100 watt pr channel would be perfect
chris661
Well-known member
gasolin
Well-known member
Al ears
Well-known member
No you don't, after a short while you won't be able to hear it and you'll need a new pair of speakers.
£200 for the Rotel is a tad rich.....
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