luckylion100 said:
Blimey I missed this. So they're available through dealers now, but the effect has been a £500 price hike. Guess I was lucky there then. Mind you, people like AVI and Richard Allen always did say that the only reason they could offer such good prices is the direct sales approach. Every time you add another person to the chain between the manufacturer and the guy who hands you the sealed cardboard box, they want to make some money themselves. So unless the manufacturer takes the financial hit of everyone else's tuppence, prices will go up.
I too knew nothing of it not being an AVI fanatic until our forum friend Avole touched upon it in a recent post that changes were afoot. I checked out the lists of dealerships involved. To me it seemed a somewhat strange collection. I admit to not knowing any of them personally, but one in particular seemed like a jack of all trades re electrical devices, covering everything from toasters, washing machines, TV's and AVI speakers, the kind of shop located in the middle of nowhere that must cater for all manner of eventualities.... I'm sure it's a great dealership and the customer service is out of this world, had better be for a £500 price hike!
AEJim
Well-known member
Thanks for the interest guys, I'll try to answer a couple of things.
The choice of 50w + 50w amps was multiple:
1. It's a good amp. It has plenty of power for the bass driver - don't forget that 50w active coupled directly to the driver is far more powerful than 50w from a stand alone amp into a passive speaker because you don't lose power going through the various inductors, capacitors and resistors in a traditional crossover! Having one of those on each individual driver means you can play very loud without distortion (105dB continuous - 115dB peak output at 1m), why use more? Which brings me to point 2 -
2. It's powerful enough yet not so powerful that it can damage the drivers - if you happen to plug them into a CD player at full volume (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) you won't blow the drive units. This is a designed-in safety and durability feature. We want these speakers to last, we don't want returns and repairs!
3. It keeps costs down - buying 4 x the same amps per pair means we can more easily meet MOQ price breaks to keep the costs lower to our customers, even though the AE1 Actives retail for £1000 we think they still offer pretty great value compared to passive speakers of equivalent quality (AE1 Classic) plus a 200w Class A/B amp.
As for preamp control - we accept that's a trade-off, if you only have a CD player or turntable as a source it's definitely preferable to add a preamp or DAC with volume control, if you have multiple sources you'd need something to switch between them anyway. Some people will be ok with this, some won't like it, that's ok! There are different options that offer different approaches, no right or wrong.
If we were to add a volume control what would be the best way? With another lead connecting the speakers? With a remote that operates both (but would need to be aimed carefully so as not to adjust only one), Bluetooth? All add cost or additional mess so we made the decision to keep the speaker as simple as possible and cost down. Buying a quality preamp is probably a lot cheaper than buying a full 200w amplifier for a passive pair of speakers after all, let alone the sonic benefits of the active layout.
We leave a physical volume control on the speaker along with bass/treble trim so you can set a maximum level you're happy with to avoid any awkward moments, there are dots to aid precision. At Bristol we ran them at 3/4 power off of a Bluesound Node 2, the few times we turned that to max were extremely loud. In testing and development I spent 90% of the time playing high bitrate tracks direct from my phone plugged into a 3.5mm -> RCA Phono cable and controlled volume from the phone. That's a pretty simple system!
The choice of 50w + 50w amps was multiple:
1. It's a good amp. It has plenty of power for the bass driver - don't forget that 50w active coupled directly to the driver is far more powerful than 50w from a stand alone amp into a passive speaker because you don't lose power going through the various inductors, capacitors and resistors in a traditional crossover! Having one of those on each individual driver means you can play very loud without distortion (105dB continuous - 115dB peak output at 1m), why use more? Which brings me to point 2 -
2. It's powerful enough yet not so powerful that it can damage the drivers - if you happen to plug them into a CD player at full volume (as mentioned elsewhere in the thread) you won't blow the drive units. This is a designed-in safety and durability feature. We want these speakers to last, we don't want returns and repairs!
3. It keeps costs down - buying 4 x the same amps per pair means we can more easily meet MOQ price breaks to keep the costs lower to our customers, even though the AE1 Actives retail for £1000 we think they still offer pretty great value compared to passive speakers of equivalent quality (AE1 Classic) plus a 200w Class A/B amp.
As for preamp control - we accept that's a trade-off, if you only have a CD player or turntable as a source it's definitely preferable to add a preamp or DAC with volume control, if you have multiple sources you'd need something to switch between them anyway. Some people will be ok with this, some won't like it, that's ok! There are different options that offer different approaches, no right or wrong.
If we were to add a volume control what would be the best way? With another lead connecting the speakers? With a remote that operates both (but would need to be aimed carefully so as not to adjust only one), Bluetooth? All add cost or additional mess so we made the decision to keep the speaker as simple as possible and cost down. Buying a quality preamp is probably a lot cheaper than buying a full 200w amplifier for a passive pair of speakers after all, let alone the sonic benefits of the active layout.
We leave a physical volume control on the speaker along with bass/treble trim so you can set a maximum level you're happy with to avoid any awkward moments, there are dots to aid precision. At Bristol we ran them at 3/4 power off of a Bluesound Node 2, the few times we turned that to max were extremely loud. In testing and development I spent 90% of the time playing high bitrate tracks direct from my phone plugged into a 3.5mm -> RCA Phono cable and controlled volume from the phone. That's a pretty simple system!
Just like to say good luck in your veture AE, and thanks for all the knowledgable contributions AEJim.
seemed like a very decent bloke.
I second the Major's sentiments but please hide the orange version at the back! ;-)
I second the Major's sentiments but please hide the orange version at the back! ;-)
Probably a stupid question but are the volume and tone controls defeated when using a pre-amplifier?
AEJim
Well-known member
Thanks for the good wishes guys! (I can't see a multi-quote system so easier just to say it!). I hope this will be the first of many domestic active products for us - I certainly want to make an "affordable" floorstanding AE3 Active at some point because I don't think there are many products like that in the market, but it'll depend how well the AE1 is received really. I do have some nice 150w A/B versions of the amps I'd like to put to use in a larger multi-driver model!
@drummerman - The volume and tone controls aren't defeated when a preamp is connected but in practice I've found no problem with this. The overall volume on the speaker can be set to maximum as that's where we make final QC measurements so the largest variance between speakers at that level will be 0.5dB. The "tone" controls are actually completely non-intrusive, they're gain adjustments for the tweeter or bass driver rather than alterations to the output curve as such. They're subtle in practice but very effective for adjusting to room issues or personal preference.
@drummerman - The volume and tone controls aren't defeated when a preamp is connected but in practice I've found no problem with this. The overall volume on the speaker can be set to maximum as that's where we make final QC measurements so the largest variance between speakers at that level will be 0.5dB. The "tone" controls are actually completely non-intrusive, they're gain adjustments for the tweeter or bass driver rather than alterations to the output curve as such. They're subtle in practice but very effective for adjusting to room issues or personal preference.
AEJim
Well-known member
drummerman said:
Thank you.
I need to get more black ones out there to counter all the images of cherry! (though some do like the cherry - I'm still trying to tone it down a little in the next batch). For some reason the cherry and white appear "stockier" while the black seems slimmer, they're the same dimensions as the original AE1 in reality, pretty small! I've been trying to get a consistent look to all our new products and with the 100 Series imminent it's all finally starting to come together.by the AEs. Shhh but I do subscribe to HFC and the review is glowing. The convenience thing works two ways, the problem with the Kefs for me is that I often listen with headphones in the evening to avoid disturbing the missus so these with a headphone amp / preamp would be much more convenient for me than the Kefs
AEJim said:drummerman said:
Thank you.
Thanks for all the tech input. Its much appreciated.
Im only bringing this up because its been brought up before in other make of actives.
Some actives have cooling fins on the back of the amp module for cooling. How come does the new Ae active not need them?
Also can you please post some more pictures. Of the front of the polished cherry one. Looks very posh
muljao
Well-known member
Would it be possible to add a very reasonable costing preamp here that sorts inputs and volume? (Don't know much about them)
From any bit I've read you are talking superb sound per price
From any bit I've read you are talking superb sound per price
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
A Bluesound Node II would be ideal - plenty of streaming options with a great DAC too.muljao said:
muljao
Well-known member
Sorry guys, just educating myself on options at the moment. I'm not buying just yet (and depending on wife maybe not the all). Info on powered speakers is less available than the passive sets so just seeing how these are practical. I have a Raumfeld Connector that can also act as a preamp.
What I actually meant was I suppose is there a volume control and selector box that could be used for such purpose, but again it's only to satisfy my curiosity
What I actually meant was I suppose is there a volume control and selector box that could be used for such purpose, but again it's only to satisfy my curiosity
Bluesound Nodes are great but I wouldn't want to use one for volume control as it relies upon an iOS/Android app. Tablet screens don't always give a smooth response when sliding up and down the volume. You might struggle to make small changes and accidentally wack it up full blast!
I'd prefer to get a proper preamplifier + DAC which has a remote control. Something like Cambridge Audio CXN.
I'd prefer to get a proper preamplifier + DAC which has a remote control. Something like Cambridge Audio CXN.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
It's quite safe - there's an icon either end of the volume scale where you can tap the volume up and down step by step. Plus, you can set a maximum so no one can damage the speakers.wilro15 said:
DocG
Well-known member
davidf said:
1. IME it's happened several times that the limiter didn't work when starting up a (Power)Node, only kicking in as soon as I touched the volume control.
2. As for using a IR remote control, you can use any RC you have lying around. The Node2 can learn IR signals for play, pauze, vol+, vol-, next, prev and 4 presets (IIRC) from any IR remote.
AEJim
Well-known member
Good question Andrew - quite simply we don't have cooling fins because the amps don't need them! They're an efficient design and in all our stress testing we've never had one overheat or shut down. The steel rear panel and natural airflow through the ported cabinet is sufficient to keep them cool enough. The rear panel naturally gets quite warm in use but even after hours at high volume never gets too hot to touch, at worst you'd potentially get some self-limiting thermal compression rather than anything damaging but I've certainly never heard any. We had them running very loud for the duration of the Bristol Show and on the few occasions I turned the Bluesound Node up fully (speaker volumes set at around 90%) there were no signs of stress.
The only other pics I currently have are of the initial batch being built in the office (and the back of my head!), aside from that a few computer renders I've done for banners and brochures:
The only other pics I currently have are of the initial batch being built in the office (and the back of my head!), aside from that a few computer renders I've done for banners and brochures:
AEJim
Well-known member
muljao said:
As the other posters have said previously I think there are plenty of options ranging from very cheap Ebay "Volume control box" type devices to exotic specialist preamps. The Bluesound Node 2 is what we currently use in the office as a nice partner for the AE1's but we've used a few such as the Arcam rDAC and similar in testing as well. I think the dealers are best placed to offer advice on suitable options, or indeed experienced users who've tried the less common options! As I've said before - most of the early development I did directly from my phone (we even increased the gain level so a lower level 1mV type output would go sufficiently loud enough for an ultra-simple high-end system at a pinch!).
shadders
Well-known member
Hi,AEJim said:
The speakers do look good. I am not able to see any pictures of the rear panel, but I assume 50watts is the limit without additional heatsinking, given the panel size. Small drivers seem to have a good impedance curve - bass/mid being 5ohms minimum. Would this be approximate for the AE1's?
Regards,
Shadders.
AEJim
Well-known member
shadders said:
Hi Shadders, that's about right! There's a pic of the rear panel earlier in the thread but you've pretty much nailed it there. The 150w version of the amp we have does have additional heatsinking as it needs it.
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