Need advice on dealing with retailers.

[plastic penguin]

Make sure it's a Rich Tea though

Actually, there'd be confusion. Punctuate this sentence:

"Tea Rich Rich Tea Rich"

"Tea Rich? Rich Tea, Rich? or piece of Upside-down cake, Rich?"

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

I hate all you South London rich tea leaves.

 

[nopiano]

...but thinking about the Linn logically - and after re-reading the link you posted - the Linn has a built-in amp. Given that the amp is redundant, due to the Leema, wouldn't it be more practical - and cheaper - to look at a streamer/storage system without an amp? Or am I missing something here?

I thought the same, and was why I suggested something like the new Denon. Especially given your opening bid was a Sonos!

I'm sure the Sneaky is very good, but I wonder if it is getting on a bit, in the scheme of things. I will have a chance to hear one myself this weekend, alongside a Klimax DS system, in an owner's house rather than a store. Should be interesting!

 

[CnoEvil]

Forgive my naivety Cno, but thinking about the Linn logically - and after re-reading the link you posted - the Linn has a built-in amp. Given that the amp is redundant, due to the Leema, wouldn't it be more practical - and cheaper - to look at a streamer/storage system without an amp? Or am I missing something here?

Logically, you might think so; but even taking this into consideration, it is (imo) still the best source for the money. Without doubt, it is the best VFM bit of kit that Linn produce...stop ruminating and just give it a listen.....then you will be able to tell me.

 

[plastic penguin]

...but thinking about the Linn logically - and after re-reading the link you posted - the Linn has a built-in amp. Given that the amp is redundant, due to the Leema, wouldn't it be more practical - and cheaper - to look at a streamer/storage system without an amp? Or am I missing something here?

I thought the same, and was why I suggested something like the new Denon. Especially given your opening bid was a Sonos!

I'm sure the Sneaky is very good, but I wonder if it is getting on a bit, in the scheme of things. I will have a chance to hear one myself this weekend, alongside a Klimax DS system, in an owner's house rather than a store. Should be interesting!

This is why expressed my concern about buying something that I don't really need (a few pages ago). The Sonos was recommended by Infidelity as a starting point. These are all the obstacles I have to negotiate over the next two weekends.

Give us a run down on your findings. This could be very revealing.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm sure the Sneaky is very good, but I wonder if it is getting on a bit, in the scheme of things. I will have a chance to hear one myself this weekend, alongside a Klimax DS system, in an owner's house rather than a store. Should be interesting!

I too will be interested in your view.

 

[plastic penguin]

Forgive my naivety Cno, but thinking about the Linn logically - and after re-reading the link you posted - the Linn has a built-in amp. Given that the amp is redundant, due to the Leema, wouldn't it be more practical - and cheaper - to look at a streamer/storage system without an amp? Or am I missing something here?

Logically, you might think so; but even taking this into consideration, it is (imo) still the best source for the money. Without doubt, it is the best VFM bit of kit that Linn produce...stop ruminating and just give it a listen.....then you will be able to tell me.

Certainly will give it darn good listen, no probs. You also mentioned that it's pretty much in the same ballpark as Mark Levinson kit. That means absolutely nothing to me: never heard one; there are no immediate stockists of the brand either. In addition - being very honest - is don't think my hearing and taste is sophisticated enough to appreciate a source equivalent to a 2k CDP.

 

[CnoEvil]

- being very honest - is don't think my hearing and taste is sophisticated enough to appreciate a source equivalent to a 2k CDP.

You only think that.

 

[matengawhat]

pp - i ordered the olive 03hd this morning for delivery on wednesday - thought would give it a go now that i found out supports digital out over usb - my dac has a usb input so now just keeping fingers crossed that the two will be compatible

will try and do a back to back comparison with the touch I have when it arrives - its only got 500gb of storage but hoping that will take my cd collection aprox 1000cd in a lossless format or at least most of them!

 

[altruistic.lemon]

pp - i ordered the olive 03hd this morning for delivery on wednesday - thought would give it a go now that i found out supports digital out over usb - my dac has a usb input so now just keeping fingers crossed that the two will be compatible

will try and do a back to back comparison with the touch I have when it arrives - its only got 500gb of storage but hoping that will take my cd collection aprox 1000cd in a lossless format or at least most of them!

This is where using the computer/NAS scores, because you can add or increase storage whenever you feel like.system the other week which was a macmini, sans monitor, being used with an AppleTV/Benchmark DAC. Easily beat my Marantz CD player, and my mate's Rega something. Remote was an ipad, or TV using the Apple remote, or my phone.

Impressive system - be surprised if the Sneaky is better. It's the DAC that defines the sound, after all, given an equal playing field of lossless files.

 

[plastic penguin]

Right. Been. Done. Here we go: the system tested was the following:

Naim HDX 5k jobbie

Olive

Arcam CD73T

Naim XS amp

Dynaudio Contour 1.4 (better MPG than a 2.0 version)

Don't know why but wasn't taken with the Naim. Yes it was a fair bit better than the CD73, but NOT £4.5k better. Although the overall SQ was very good, it didn't bowl me over. Likewise the Olive pretty much left me with a feeling that I was less than satisfied. The Olive, to my ears, was better VFM than the Naim (£900 and something squid)

In terms of facilities both were an all-in-one solution, but the feeling wasn't as positive as when I heard Gerrard's DacMagic + other gizmos.

I've concluded two things after this morning's dem: Firstly, it'll take a lot longer to find the right solution. And secondly: My CD73 is a bloody good CDP.

Next....

BTW, the CD I took and he ripped was 'Elvis Costello (Best of...)

 

[chebby]

Why weren't you listening to things you could afford like the Arcam rDac or Rega DAC or Marantz NA7004 etc?

What is to be gained by listening to a £5000 streamer in a system you will never own?

 

[plastic penguin]

Why weren't you listening to things you could afford like the Arcam rDac or Rega DAC or Marantz NA7004 etc?

What is to be gained by listening to a £5000 streamer in a system you will never own?

That was the variants he had set-up. Everytime I pressed him to go the individual DAC route he spun me a load of old technical crap about the benefits of going all-in-one. So wasn't particularly happy, so won't be using PJ (Guildford) again.

 

[chebby]

Everytime I pressed him to go the individual DAC route he spun me a load of old technical crap about the benefits of going all-in-one. So wasn't particularly happy, so won't be using PJ (Guildford) again.

I assume this was after you had told him your budget and requirements.

PJ Guildford have Arcam (including rDACs) and Rega listed in stock on their website.

Why couldn't they demo them for you? Didn't you make yourself clear?

Report this experience in the "there's this shop near me" forum.

 

[matengawhat]

that's a real shame was going to ask how the olive compared using internal dac and outputting the digital signal to external dac

 

[CnoEvil]

I suppose the best you can say about the day is that you have added to your experience.
FWIW I don't really get on with Naim, and (imo) the Olive is good rather than great.

I agree with Chebby, as listening to completely "out of budget" componants, on a totally different system/room to yours, is only of academic interest and doesn't further your cause. I suspect the sales guy had his own agenda.

I suggest that for your next foray, you ring the shop (with good notice) and get hold of the person who will be doing the demo. Once you have got his attention, give him details of your budget, what you're trying to achieve, the stuff you wish to hear (with any suggestions that he may have) and agree between you, the best system to hear it on, given your own kit.

If they have a variety of rooms, chose the one that is closest to your own. Also, I would bring a greater variety of music, to test the all round ability of the source.....ie. large orchestra, some acoustic, something with a lot of bass. You also want to hear the accuracy of the human voice (male and female), piano and violin, as well as your best and worst recordings.

It usually takes 3-4 mins to rip a CD....it might even be worth seeing if they already have some of your music already "on file".

Anyways, here's hoping for a more fruitful experience next time. :?

 

[matengawhat]

what made you rule out the olive?

 

[nopiano]

A bit OT, but as you heard Naim, pp, and wasn't expecting to...well so did I, today. Bit of a coincidence?!

The purpose was to hear the Chord cable folks demonstrate 5 different sets of their wares. The unexpected treat was the system:-

Naim CDX2 (£3,640)

NAC 282 pre (£3,825)

NAP 250 power amp (£3,050)

DAC (£2,100)

HiCap (£1,150) but not sure what it was powering - didn't look that closely!

PMC Fact8 (£5,250)

All the Naim gear was on their Fraim stands.

[I've copied the prices from Naim's latest list because I struggle to remember all their different models and hierarchy!]

Like a couple of you here, I'm not a big Naim fan, if I was pressed to say so. But, ironically, perhaps because I wasn't 'listening' to the Naims on purpose, I have to say it was a cracking good system. I know it should be for the price of a decent family car. The PMCs are every bit as good as folks have said, and my first chance to hear them properly. The demo CD was Keb Mo's self-titled album.

Not room here to go into the cables in detail, other than to say that at each step up was noticeable, though not just 'more of the same' as one might have imagined. The top couple of ranges seemed to bring everything back together, and more effortless, when lower down there was more highlighting of this and that detail. Fascinating though.

The top-flight Chord Sarum range must have cost about as much as the system - speaker cable £600 per metre (terminated), mains and interconnects £1500 a pop, from memory. If I've done the reckoning right, that makes 5 mains leads, 3 interconnects, and say 6 metres for speaker cables - which comes to about fifteen grand. Ouch!

Incidentally, back to the HDX. It now has internet radio, just been added apparently. I'd assumed it had radio all along, but it shows how modern gear gets firmware enhancements that are really beneficial.

Happy days.

 

[CnoEvil]

NP, good to hear about your day. I was at a TCI cable demo last year, where a room full of people could hear the improvement with each step up in price....mass hypnosis no doubt. :O

The system was too bright and forward for my taste and had a Chord Dac on one end and Focal Utopia (Diablo) at the other. Really expensive cables seemed to tame it, and the sound became more natural.

 

[plastic penguin]

Decision made: I'm going to buy a DacMagic next week (this week rather). At this point I'll use it initially to play cds via the 73T, just to get used to the concept. Once I've tried to relocate the PC or purchased a laptop then I'll think about storage and a streamer.

 

[John Duncan]

Just get an airport express...

 

[Crocodile]

Decision made: I'm going to buy a DacMagic next week

See if you can pick up a used one. I believe there's a new model due which will likely decimate the resale value if you buy new.

 

[Sliced Bread]

Decision made: I'm going to buy a DacMagic next week (this week rather). At this point I'll use it initially to play cds via the 73T, just to get used to the concept. Once I've tried to relocate the PC or purchased a laptop then I'll think about storage and a streamer.

A new dac magic is said to be released very soon, according to another thread.

 

[CnoEvil]

Decision made: I'm going to buy a DacMagic next week (this week rather). At this point I'll use it initially to play cds via the 73T, just to get used to the concept. Once I've tried to relocate the PC or purchased a laptop then I'll think about storage and a streamer.

PP, it's good to take the first step.....and you have heard what one can do, so good luck with it.

 

[plastic penguin]

The other reason for going with a DacMagic - apart from the sound - is if I don't like it I can sell it on and lose little money or if I get the DAC upgrade bug in a few months/ a year I have a good starting point.

Going this route means I'm not pressured into buying something i don't like/can't afford, and I can build at my own pace.