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Naim Dac v1 or nac 272 into a nap 200

millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
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11,070
HI All, i havent been here in a while, a few things are changing on my end and i wish to upgrade my Uniti 2 in the coming mouths, which is currently serviceing a nap 200 dr. Good though it is, im finding it a little polite still as basicaly still a uniti with more refinded amp on the end. I was thinking about the 2 products above to replace it. I know theres in different price groups but the 272 is an intergrated pre amp/streamer so the pre amp dac section really (in theaory) shouldn't be to to dissimilar i wouldn't of thought from the V1. Has anyone any experiance with the V1 staright into one of the 200s DR or otherwise.

many thanks
 

millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
380
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Is that becasue it reprensents better value over all? is it something you have listened too/toyed with the idea of changing too. As i can see you have a nice little (not so little) setup.
 
Feb 18, 2015
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Unfortunately I haven't heard a 272 as yet but it's the go to pre amp/streamer once you get to a certain level of power amp..the dac v1?would it not make your system a little over complicated if you plan to keep the uniti as the streaming source,don't you think the nac172xs would be the natural partner for your nap 200 and keep it a bit more price /performance level compatible and also a bit more streamlined.....that's the combination I'd be looking at if I were you.
 

millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
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272 i believe is considered a natural partner to the 200/200DR by Niam i believe, in fact more so i believe than the 250DR which would be more of the 282 and NDX. The reason for not purchasing the nap 250 was the fact i felt it was to much of a good thing for the Revels, they're just so sensitive the 200 provids ample grip and power in my room. In my room the Revels far outproformed the PMC 2023's with the Uniti it was a case of less was certainly more. In regards to the V1, it would replace the uniti 2 all together i would have no need for it with the V1 in place as it would be replacating functions of the uniti, i would use a laptop or similar as the streaming source and make use of the USB. I guess the only to way to find out is to go and have a listen.
 
Feb 18, 2015
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The uniti isn't really enough to get the best from the tweny 23's which I'm pretty sure is why the revels sensitivity made them sound like a better proposition to you....but you are right that going to have a listen is the best course of action....but I think I'd rather have full streaming capabilities from a single box or two rather than go through the computer /dac/amp solution...just too messy for my personal preferences.lol.

If you read around the naim forum most folks recommend that a 272 be partnered with the nap250/dr.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
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millennia_one said:
272 i believe is considered a natural partner to the 200/200DR by Niam i believe, in fact more so i believe than the 250DR which would be more of the 282 and NDX. The reason for not purchasing the nap 250 was the fact i felt it was to much of a good thing for the Revels, they're just so sensitive the 200 provids ample grip and power in my room. In my room the Revels far outproformed the PMC 2023's with the Uniti it was a case of less was certainly more. In regards to the V1, it would replace the uniti 2 all together i would have no need for it with the V1 in place as it would be replacating functions of the uniti, i would use a laptop or similar as the streaming source and make use of the USB. I guess the only to way to find out is to go and have a listen.
Hi. First of all, you need to audition for yourself. Preferably in your own room, maybe you can get the stuff on loan from your dealer.

Secondly, the DR of the 200 only works if you use it to power one of Naim's classic pre-amps - like Nac 202. The power amplifying section itself is not DR'ed - unlike Nap250DR and the others above, on which the DR is on their power section. So basically, with either Dac V1/Uniti2/272/172 there would be absolutely no difference between Nap 200 and Nap200DR (either than the fact that you know for sure the 200DR is of recent production). So basically, you could "downgrade" to a bare Nap200 with absolutely no loss in sound quality. Either that, or upgrade to 250DR if that tickles your fancy.

Thirdly, I envy you, since I don't have the option of hearing those Revels (I read a lot of good things about them), only heard their F208 model, and it does indeed sound stunning.

Now, in a room of that size, if you don't have neigbours and if it's a dedicated listening room, where you can keep tose Revels far into the room, you can upgrade to whatever power amp you wish. Otherwise, my assumption is that the 200 is more than enough, since there is such a thing as "too much of an amplifier" for any given system/rooom/etc.

I used to own a Dac V1 a while ago, paired with SN2. It was a nice combo, but missed something. Also, I like the Nap200 more than the SN2. I haven't heard Dac V1 + Nap200, but some on Naim forums use that combination, since they don't need analogue inputs and stream via laptop. Of course, they are happy with the sound, but only YOU can decide if it's your cup of tea. I myself prefer the convenience and low-box count of the 172+200.

I also heard the 272 + 200/250DR and, Imo, it's a pretty noticeable upgrade from 172XS +200/250DR. So the 272 would be my option (it is currently my endgame, along with XPS2 and Nap300, but that's another story). Also, since you already have the 200, the 272 (or even 172) are the obvious choices - don't discount the 172, it's a great sounding preamp, and it is much better than the Uniti.

Another thing, I suggest you consider changing your speaker cable to 3.5m Naca5 or Tellurium Q Black 2. Even TQ Black 1 might be worth a shot, lots of Naimees like it, but I found it too lean in my system. It does very good separation, but at the cost of coherence and lack of bass oomph and PRAT. The TQ Black 2 is completely different (I have a pair on home-trial) and I'm having a really hard time deciding between keeping the Naca5 or switching to the TQ - because the TQ does almost everything better, soundstage, fullness, smoothness, timbre, sybilants, whatever, it's just slightly less energic sounding than the Naca5 (which does have a bit of a bass hump and compression to manage it's PRAT).
 

millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
380
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Hi thank for the comprehensive feedback and has all been noted. All my stuff is tested at home, i dont buy from a dealer that wouldn't allow this. In fact i insist on it even if have to lay refundable deposit. In regards to the 200 it certainly is a DR model and i've also heard the non DR 200 and to be honest i heard a differance between the 2 leaning towards to the DR but maybe the non DR needed a recap!? it was a much firmer and more inciteful listen and infairness Naim also state there are internal layout changes and along with the DR power supply, so could explain the differeance.

I listened to the 250 and TBH it was far to much for the Revels in my room, they're a very weighty speaker with MASSIVE sound stage, don't get me wrong sounded nice just not balanced tipping to a darker presentaton and i much prefered the 200's presentation. The 200Dr supplies them with plenty of welly and a far more balanced sound for the speaker size (again in my room). I suppect the 206/08's would fair better with the 250DR. TBH i would much prefer to spend more money on improving my source weather that be a DAC V1 or a 272. But i was purely intriged if anybody has experianced the V1 specifically feeding the 200DR.

Naca5 is on the list but that will be the last thing on list as the K20 is very good giving a good soundstage with lot of punch. When i last listened to TQ blue and black i really couldn't hear a differance at all at least not enough to justify the enormous outlay on cable. But that was on the end of the uniti 2 and not the nap 200.

If you can get to hear the Revels m106's you would be in for a real treat (well at least i think you would). Out of all the speakers i auditioned they where by far the best sounding (in my room and the uniti 2 had enough grunt for to drive all)

Hope you get that 300 one day but i think my end game is a much more humble one, stopping with the current speakers and power amp, would just like to get better pre amp and ill be pretty much done. Maybe a power supply in a few years.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
371
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19,070
I can relate to what you're saying - the SN2 was too much for my room as well, and I like the presentation of the 200 more. Also, your Revels go lower and stronger than my B&W, so a bigger power amp might not be an improvement.The balance you reached with the 200 shouldn't be changed hastefully.

What I experienced when I tested the differences between the combination of the 172/272/200/250 was that the change in preamp was more impactful - and I actually preferred the 200 to the 250. I also bet that the 272 is a much more capable pre-amp than the V1.

On the subject of cables, if you heard the TQ Black mk1, it's a pretty bad cable imo. The Black 2 is completely different. Now, depending on what music you listen to, it can be better than Naca5, and the differences are not subtle, at least with Nap 200. Tqb2 is much more organic, analogue sounding, and with classical/jazz/orchestral stuff it's the clear winner. It still has great cohesion and rhythmic abilities, unlike it's previous version, but if you listen to prog/rock/electronică and you like the forward momentum with those, the Naca5 should still be considered.

By the way, head over to the Naim forums, you're likely to get more advice on there.
 

millennia_one

Well-known member
Sep 1, 2014
380
154
11,070
Many thanks i might just do that, I know theres a little hostiliy here towards naim in general (well from what ive read in the past anyhow) i take it your on there as well your system profile looks familer to couple of seen on there. In regards to the DAC v1 i guess i was thinking it was more of stripped back 272 without the streamer, in my mind it kind of makes scenes but maybe thats not the case at all.
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
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millennia_one said:
Many thanks i might just do that, I know theres a little hostiliy here towards naim in general (well from what ive read in the past anyhow) i take it your on there as well your system profile looks familer to couple of seen on there. In regards to the DAC v1 i guess i was thinking it was more of stripped back 272 without the streamer, in my mind it kind of makes scenes but maybe thats not the case at all. 
Naim makes super kit if a little extravagant. Not sure where the hate is coming from.
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
371
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Unfortunately for your pockets ( and mine) I think the pre in the 272 is much better than the V1. But who knows, you might find it more than enough, so check for yourself. And even more unfortunate is the fact that the 272 can be upgraded with a PS (but you can get away with SH here, or third party or skipping it altogether).

If you didn't need a preamp section, Chord Hugo is the dac naimites prefer to the V1. But you up the box and cable count and end up spending almost the same money (sh Hugo, sh 202 or 282, streamer or laptop).
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
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insider9 said:
Naim makes super kit if a little extravagant. Not sure where the hate is coming from.
IMO. If you don't like the way a piece of kit sounds....it isn't hate of the brand per se, but is making a judgement on the way it sounds.

I'm not a fan of the way current Naims sound (simply because I prefer other brands). This is personal to me and no reflecion on the quality of the brand...in fact I owned a 42/110/Snaps back in the 80s, which had a wonderful synergy with an LP12....I didn't enjoy either of these components as much when paired with something else.
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
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I am very interested in naim at the moment.

I find one of the hardest things is keeping up with the nacs and naps and recognising all the numbers and acronyms on forums. It seems the sort of brand you need to spend some time with to understand it all. Experienced naimees talk in code
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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CnoEvil said:
insider9 said:
Naim makes super kit if a little extravagant. Not sure where the hate is coming from.
IMO. If you don't like the way a piece of kit sounds....it isn't hate of the brand per se, but is making a judgement on the way it sounds.

I'm not a fan of the way current Naims sound (simply because I prefer other brands). This is personal to me and no reflecion on the quality of the brand...in fact I owned a 42/110/Snaps back in the 80s, which had a wonderful synergy with an LP12....I didn't enjoy either of these components as much when paired with something else.
Ah, the old art of system building where components complemented each other and the overall performance was greater than the sum of the parts,

Whatever happened to that?
 
Feb 18, 2015
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Nac's are pre amps and nap's are power amps with a few different psu's for various levels of pre amps flatcaps at the lower end then hi cap and super cap also xps I think is the best....naim has also brought in some pre amp/streamer in one box solutions again for various levels of power amp with the nac172xs and nac272,the former for power amps such as 152xs and nap 200.the latter is usually paired with a nap250 and upwards....I'm sure rainsoothe can elaborate further as he is a lot more knowledgeable than I about Naim kit.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
288
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ellisdj said:
I am very interested in naim at the moment.

I find one of the hardest things is keeping up with the nacs and naps and recognising all the numbers and acronyms on forums. It seems the sort of brand you need to spend some time with to understand it all. Experienced naimees talk in code
Very true, and I'm far from up to date on those combinations. Ironically that's probably one reason why the Uniti series has done so well. It's largely cut through the crap and mumbo jumbo.

Once the new range is fully in production I'm sure it'll do well as long as they don't keep hiking the prices. However, if you want to change power supplies every year then stick to the separates!
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2012
371
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Mark Rose-Smith said:
Nac's are pre amps and nap's are power amps with a few different psu's for various levels of pre amps flatcaps at the lower end then hi cap and super cap also xps I think is the best....naim has also brought in some pre amp/streamer in one box solutions again for various levels of power amp with the nac172xs and nac272,the former for power amps such as 152xs and nap 200.the latter is usually paired with a nap250 and upwards....I'm sure rainsoothe can elaborate further as he is a lot more knowledgeable than I about  Naim kit.
I don't think I am, really, I just like how most of their stuff sounds. On their website, the product are clearly separated into categories, along with suggestions for the natural partnering equipment, but lots of people prefer mix-and-match, which is why auditions are important. Or why the forums are valuable for people who wanna buy used.

Quoted post is accurate, NAC are preamps, NAC-N is the same with Network capabilities, NAP are power. Hi-caps and things that end in PS are power supply upgrades for various system parts, SNAXO are crossovers for people who wanna bi or tri-amp speakers with Naim power amps. Snaic are interconnects.

Yes, it is confusing at times, because for instance hi-cap can power a nac 202 pre, but not a 272 pre, which needs XPS or PPS. Stuff like that. That's where forums and dealers come in.
 

Alaneg

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2009
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I had a DAC V1 into a NAP200 (non DR) and was very pleased with it, especially after the firmware upgrade. However, I changed to the 272 last year and do not regret it for an instance. Not only does it sound better to me, but the convenience of use over vthe DAC V1 is wonderful - steaming directly from a Synology NAC and using Tidal. In addition, as it also has analogue inputs, which the DAC V! does not, it allows me now to use my 40 year old Linn LP12 again! A real bonus.
 

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