Speakers for Naim NAC-N 272

[Frank Harvey]

'organic', 'exciting' (we can all use meaningless vocabulary after all).

If we can't describe sound (albeit in our own way, sometimes), then there's no real point discussing sound at all.

 

[spiny norman]

(we can all use meaningless vocabulary after all).

Of course you're right: all of this isn't about enjoying music, after all.

But to conform to your rules, then yes, the Devialet is perfectly capable of driving speakers and making a sound. Happy now?

 

[richardw42]

And don't forget the 272 is a streamer as well, so a chunk of that £7k is effectively a source. And a DAC.

Yes, perfectly aware of that, which is why I suggested the Devialet 200: a similar, cheaper and better package.

Different.

or buy a perfectly fit for purpose one for £30

 

[Vladimir]

Therefore, pointless to debate about amps.

 

[matt49]

(we can all use meaningless vocabulary after all).

Of course you're right: all of this isn't about enjoying music, after all.

But to conform to your rules, then yes, the Devialet is perfectly capable of driving speakers and making a sound. Happy now?

'Rules'? What rules?

If we can't describe sound (albeit in our own way, sometimes), then there's no real point discussing sound at all.

No-one said we can't describe sound: there are plenty of meaningful words that do the job.

 

[matt49]

Therefore, pointless to debate about amps.

You're probably right, but it's worth asking the question. Ditto the question about budget allocation, especially since the OP seems to be relying on the views of his dealer, so an alternative view deserves a hearing.

 

[Frank Harvey]

No-one said we can't describe sound: there are plenty of meaningful words that do the job.

Exciting is a pretty good one, and simple to understand, I would've thought.

 

[matt49]

I don't know what level of quality electronics your speakers will entertain (sounds a bit limiting to me), and I suppose there will be a limit where returns diminish - this may vary from speaker to speaker depending on how well they've been designed, as a good design will grow with a system. I've heard £1000 speakers sing on the end of £9ks worth of high quality pre/power. There's always something better.

Ah, gotcha: because the speakers sound at their best with an amp that's not super expensive, then the speakers must be poorly designed? Nice one, David!

 

[matt49]

No-one said we can't describe sound: there are plenty of meaningful words that do the job.

Exciting is a pretty good one, and simple to understand, I would've thought.

I understand what exciting music is, but I'm really not sure what an exciting playback system is. But if you pushed me, I'd say it sounds like the system is adding something 'exciting' to the signal that isn't there, maybe like the 'smile' FR curve that you get with lots of budget speakers.

Would that be right?

 

[Vladimir]

Therefore, pointless to debate about amps.

You're probably right, but it's worth asking the question. Ditto the question about budget allocation, especially since the OP seems to be relying on the views of his dealer, so an alternative view deserves a hearing.

Absolutely. If it was Krell, Parasound, Bryston, Marantz, Denon etc. It's Naim Matt. Save your efforts.

The speakers need to have multiple 5 star reviews and stamp of approval from the Naim community. The budget is around 3K. Those are the parameters, firmly in place I believe.

I'm looking at the Naim Ovator S-400 and Linn Majik Isobariks that fit the budget. But I noticed a new trend since Focal bought Naim. It seems Naim and Linn got a divorce and don't come like hand and glove as they used to. I don't see an iota of change in the engineering principals of Focal or Naim, yet despite those two brands never being "in synergy", now after the merger they seem to be the new perfect marriage.

If the OP wants to appease the Naim community, best to go for Naim, Linn and Focal. If he wants to impress everyone and own audio porn in his listening room, then those SF Olimpicas are just gorgeous. KEF would be my pick for performance, but he is a Naim owner, therefore I'd just skip that. Spendors, too dull, just pass.

 

[matt49]

Absolutely. If it was Krell, Parasound, Bryston, Marantz, Denon etc. It's Naim Matt. Save your efforts.

My mistake. I was looking at a thread over on PFM titled Disappointed with Naim sound, please advise!, and I got confused into thinking the world might really change. *wacko*

 

[Vladimir]

Absolutely. If it was Krell, Parasound, Bryston, Marantz, Denon etc. It's Naim Matt. Save your efforts.

My mistake. I was looking at a thread over on PFM titled Disappointed with Naim sound, please advise!, and I got confused into thinking the world might really change. *wacko*

And at comment #9 he already gulped the hook like a carp. You always upgrade your OT level. You don't just leave.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Ah, gotcha: because the speakers sound at their best with an amp that's not super expensive, then the speakers must be poorly designed? Nice one, David!

Why else would a speaker not be able to show the benefits of a better amplifier? A speaker is your window to a sonic soundscape, and how well it reproduces that will depend on how well they're designed, and the accompanying electronics.

I personally would expect a £10k speaker to be able to benefit from a well designed, high quality amplifier at £5k at least, or even a good pre/power.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I understand what exciting music is, but I'm really not sure what an exciting playback system is. But if you pushed me, I'd say it sounds like the system is adding something 'exciting' to the signal that isn't there, maybe like the 'smile' FR curve that you get with lots of budget speakers.

Would that be right?

I suppose it depends on your definition of exciting, but I'd say that sounds about right.

 

[matt49]

Why else would a speaker not be able to show the benefits of a better amplifier? A speaker is your window to a sonic soundscape, and how well it reproduces that will depend on how well they're designed, and the accompanying electronics.

I can think of three reasons why a speaker wouldn't 'show the benefits of a better amplifier':

1. what you call a ‘better’ amp may in fact not be better in respect of what really matters: i.e. power output and distortion. You might be confusing ‘better’ with ‘more expensive’.

2. assuming the ‘better’ amp actually is better (e.g. in terms of distortion), the improvement may not be audible to humans.

3. you say speakers are a window on sound and will show up better electronics. But bear in mind that in a digital audio system the biggest bottleneck by far will be the speakers. They may be a window, but in relative terms they’re always a dirty window. So their capacity to allow us to ‘see through’ to small changes in the electronics is quite limited.

Also bear in mind we’re talking about a power amp here (as noted in post #21). Power amps are pretty simple units in technological terms. Assuming they have a flat FR, low distortion and enough power to drive the relevant speakers (with a good wodge of headroom), then there’s actually not much room for improvement.

And although you’re a bit sniffy about my speakers, you should be aware that because they’re electrostatics they have more resolving power and less distortion in the all-important mid-range than any electrodynamic speakers. So yes, any significant changes in electronics are as likely to show through my speakers as they are through any others.

 

[Romulus]

Why would you not go for Naim? Have you heard Naim systems? The Devialet is just another option another taste.. If Hegel suits the taste that would be practical since it includes DAC, various digital connections and three analogue inputs (H360 IA).

Yes, I have heard a few Naim systems, and none of them worked for me sonically. I also happen to think they're quite poor value for money, especially given the rather outdated engineering inside them.

The Devialet includes a DAC, just like the Hegel. I haven't heard a Hegel, so I won;t comment on it. The Devialet 200 is a superb amp and IMO more transparent than any Naim I've heard.

Ah it figures you don't like them sonically; but to say they're quite poor for the value seems a very personal view laced with a little prejudice..? Its like saying the Bentley is poor for the value and outdated considering the appearance of the electric car! However the new (Naim)Statement appears to be selling very well around the world, so one could consider that people still like Naim despite it costs around £155,000.00..?

 

[DocG]

Why would you not go for Naim? Have you heard Naim systems? The Devialet is just another option another taste.. If Hegel suits the taste that would be practical since it includes DAC, various digital connections and three analogue inputs (H360 IA).

Yes, I have heard a few Naim systems, and none of them worked for me sonically. I also happen to think they're quite poor value for money, especially given the rather outdated engineering inside them.

The Devialet includes a DAC, just like the Hegel. I haven't heard a Hegel, so I won;t comment on it. The Devialet 200 is a superb amp and IMO more transparent than any Naim I've heard.

Ah it figures you don't like them sonically; but to say they're quite poor for the value seems a very personal view laced with a little prejudice..? Its like saying the Bentley is poor for the value and outdated considering the appearance of the electric car! However the new (Naim)Statement appears to be selling very well around the world, so one could consider that people still like Naim despite it costs around £155,000.00..?

You think people who buy the Naim Statement do so because they're convinced it gives them the best sound quality? Just google 'Veblen goods'.

And yes, Bentley is a good analogy here. Bentley is to Tesla what Naim is to Devialet indeed. IMO.

 

[rainsoothe]

Frankly, saying something is better is a bit idiotic, considering hi-fi is first of all subjective. I, for one, heard some Devialet stuff (don't remember what it was called, it was that orb speaker thingie) and I think it sucked big time - completely dull and uninvolving.

So OP, just try to audition what's been suggested, and let your own ears decide

 

[spiny norman]

I, for one, heard some Devialet stuff (don't remember what it was called, it was that orb speaker thingie) and I think it sucked big time - completely dull and uninvolving.

+1, and the same goes for the amps.

 

[Frank Harvey]

You think people who buy the Naim Statement do so because they're convinced it gives them the best sound quality? Just google 'Veblen goods'.

Have you heard one? Properly?

 

[matt49]

I, for one, heard some Devialet stuff (don't remember what it was called, it was that orb speaker thingie) and I think it sucked big time - completely dull and uninvolving.

+1, and the same goes for the amps.

To judge by the number of ex-Naim owners over on the Devialet Chat Forum, 'dull and uninvolving' seems to be selling quite well.

 

[chebby]

Just google 'Veblen goods'.

I did and got this horses##t ...

"In an economy, the consumption of Veblen goods is a function of the Veblen effect (goods desired for being over-priced) that is named after the American economist Thorstein Veblen, who first identified conspicuous consumption as a mode of status-seeking ..."

No way was he the first person to ever notice "conspicuous consumption as a mode of status seeking".

Did no-one before him ever notice things like Blenheim Palace or the Pyramids, or the Crown Jewels? Did thousands of years of rich folk, monarchs and aristocracy spend out on all that ancient 'bling' in vain? Did no-one really get what the rich were up to until some American bloke (so famous you have to google him) 'revealed' what was going on in a dusty economics book in 1899?

He should have read up on the Sumptuary laws of various societies through history (including in medieval England) where the highest nobility and Royalty sought to curtail such conspicuous spending amongst the newly rich, people like merchants, lawyers and their wives.

Don't you just love an academic who 'discovers' something everyone else knew about for millenia before?

 

[spiny norman]

To judge by the number of ex-Naim owners over on the Devialet Chat Forum, 'dull and uninvolving' seems to be selling quite well.

Self-selecting sample, innit? I am sure your amplifier is the new wonder of the modern age, etc., and I am jolly happy you can repeatedly reassure yourself you've bought the right thing, even if I think it's overpriced bling and wouldn't give it house-room.

Anyway, you really shouldn't believe anything you read on forums, as most of it is spherical, and in the plural. ;-)

 

[matt49]

Anyway, you really shouldn't believe anything you read on forums, as most of it is spherical, and in the plural. ;-)

No worries, I'll treat all your posts with that in mind. *smile*

 

[spiny norman]

No worries, I'll treat all your posts with that in mind. *smile*

Phew! And there was me thinking I was going to get a predictable reply.