Nagaoka Cart Let-Down (but getting better)

[bigfish786]

so, a few months ago i bought a Nagaoka Mp-110 cartridge and Stylus. i have another Nagaoka cart which i really like, so i thought this would be a bit of a no-brainer.
i connected it to my Marantz turntable, and gave it a whirl.
there is detail, but slightly rolled off. there is bass, but its light. but there is no middle! no music... it just sounds very flat and lifeless. i've tried it for around 10-15 hours, and its just not doing it for me.
every other cart i have sounds much better.
one thing i have yet to try is the mp-110 stylus on the other body. but generally feel a bit disappointed with it.
not what i expected at all.

 

[myrrhman]

Maybe it still needs more running in time? I would've said perhaps the Nagaoka sound just isn't for you, but as you're familiar with the brand that obviously doesn't apply.
I finally got enough time to set up a new turntable and cartridge (a Hana EL) a couple of weeks ago - I've probably listened to at least 20 hours+ of vinyl since then and it is still improving, particularly in terms of bass and midrange.

 

[bigfish786]

it probably does deserve another spin, although i didn't have any issues with the TS-12... that sounded amazing right out of the box. as did the goldring E3,

 

[Al ears]

it probably does deserve another spin, although i didn't have any issues with the TS-12... that sounded amazing right out of the box. as did the goldring E3,

Unusual for Nagaoka although there is always a possibility you have a bad cartridge. I longer recommend the cheaper cartridges in the range, although £112 isn't particularly cheap, since their massive price increases a while good while ago.

 

[bigfish786]

after giving it some thought, i have put it back on the turntable. i'd just been listening to a few records with the Goldring E3 on, which has a great, well balanced sound. so, i'm trying a few different things, to see if i can get a bit more life and energy out of it.

 

[Al ears]

after giving it some thought, i have put it back on the turntable. i'd just been listening to a few records with the Goldring E3 on, which has a great, well balanced sound. so, i'm trying a few different things, to see if i can get a bit more life and energy out of it.

I would say press on but these cartridges tend not to have a long break-in time so if it doesn't do it for you now perhaps selling it on might be the only way forward.

 

[bigfish786]

that was kinda my line of thinking, but i'll persist with it for a few more hours, and see how it goes.

 

[bigfish786]

that was kinda my line of thinking, but i'll persist with it for a few more hours, and see how it goes.

i must admit, it is now sounding a whole lot better this time around.
maybe i've set it up better this time?
this is more what i was expecting.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Could be a set-up issue bigfish but you are also used to the TS-12 which I think was a better cartridge overall than the MP110 if I'm not mistaken. Save up for an MP200

 

[nopiano]

i must admit, it is now sounding a whole lot better this time around.
maybe i've set it up better this time?
this is more what i was expecting.

Glad it’s better now. I’m guessing something wasn’t quite right in setup, because I can’t recall any cartridge getting brighter from new - they usually mellow a shade if anything.
It’s years since I heard a Nagaoka in earnest, but they always seemed to be the ‘smooth’ option, ideal for a lively system or room. But jeeps, they’ve become quite a high price, when looking at AT, Goldring and Ortofon rivals.

 

[bigfish786]

To be honest, i was getting all kinds of different presentation. not just one particular thing.
the major thing was the mid-range seemed very recessed. bass wasn't punchy, treble was rolled off rather than harsh. it just didn't sound "right"
i tried a few things, like dropping the tonearm down slightly, and pushing the cartridge back a little, which seems to have made a difference.
so, i'll persist with it and see how things go. but i've got it to a point where its enjoyable enough.
the TS-12 is a better cart indeed, so i'm trying to lengthen its lifespan by using other carts.
i now have the MP-110 TS-12 Goldring E3, Clearaudio Virtuoso (with linn generator).
so, i swap them around once or twice a year.

 

[Al ears]

To be honest, i was getting all kinds of different presentation. not just one particular thing.
the major thing was the mid-range seemed very recessed. bass wasn't punchy, treble was rolled off rather than harsh. it just didn't sound "right"
i tried a few things, like dropping the tonearm down slightly, and pushing the cartridge back a little, which seems to have made a difference.
so, i'll persist with it and see how things go. but i've got it to a point where its enjoyable enough.
the TS-12 is a better cart indeed, so i'm trying to lengthen its lifespan by using other carts.
i now have the MP-110 TS-12 Goldring E3, Clearaudio Virtuoso (with linn generator).
so, i swap them around once or twice a year.

VTA can certainly have a big effect on the sound. I was wondering, when you say pushed the cartridge back a little, whether you own a set-up protector?

 

[bigfish786]

No, i don't have a protractor, the Marantz is more or less a plug and play setup (with the clearaudio) so, its not been something i've required.
its probably something i would benefit from owning though.

 

[Al ears]

No, i don't have a protractor, the Marantz is more or less a plug and play setup (with the clearaudio) so, its not been something i've required.
its probably something i would benefit from owning though.

They are available cheaply. If you have any adjustment on that tonearm then it isn't plug and play.
You might be pleasantly surprised with improvement once a cartridge is properly aligned.
If you swap cartridges frequently I would strongly suggest you get a simple mirrored protractor.
see example below....

Tonar Simple Cartridge Protractor Alignment Tool: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

Shop Tonar Simple Cartridge Protractor Alignment Tool. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[bigfish786]

They are available cheaply. If you have any adjustment on that tonearm then it isn't plug and play.
You might be pleasantly surprised with improvement once a cartridge is properly aligned.
If you swap cartridges frequently I would strongly suggest you get a simple mirrored protractor.
see example below....

Tonar Simple Cartridge Protractor Alignment Tool: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

Shop Tonar Simple Cartridge Protractor Alignment Tool. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

thanks for the link.
i've ordered one.

 

[bigfish786]

on the subject of the Marantz being Plug & Play. basically, when you first set it up, you don't need to do any measurements, you use the counterweight to set the tonearm height, and the cartridge is set at the furthest point forward on the arm. and thats it. no measuring.

 

[bigfish786]

Here’s a pic of the cartridge in the head shell. Not a lot of adjustment available.

 

[nopiano]

Here’s a pic of the cartridge in the head shell. Not a lot of adjustment available.

Presumably if you loosen that Allen bolt on the top you can slide it to and fro, but does it pivot/rotate too? Or is that domed piece keeping it ‘on the rails’, so to speak?

 

[bigfish786]

yes, you can loosen the allen bolt to move the cart forwards and back, but thats it. the domed section is fixed, with no adjustment available. and as you can see, the cart is locked in place too on the headshell.

 

[Al ears]

As you say a fair bit of front to back movement but no azimuthal

 

[Tonestar1]

I'm running a MP110 on a Roskan Radius 5 and I really like it. I don't have much experience with carts but I spent a bit of time carefully setting it up and love the sound. No major deficiencies to my ears.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

on the subject of the Marantz being Plug & Play. basically, when you first set it up, you don't need to do any measurements, you use the counterweight to set the tonearm height, and the cartridge is set at the furthest point forward on the arm. and thats it. no measuring.

The plug and play aspect would only apply to the bundled cart, different carts would require a protractor for correct set-up.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

As you say a fair bit of front to back movement but no azimuthal

There is a screw on the underside of the tonearm if you need to fiddle with the azimuth but I've never found adjustment necessary. The turntable has VTA adjustment too with tools supplied to set height with or without a mat, or to account for different height carts. It's quite a well designed turntable actually, but a protractor is a must as with any turntable.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Here’s a pic of the cartridge in the head shell. Not a lot of adjustment available.

I'm running a Nag on mine bigfish and I'd say that your cart is a little too far back, not by much, maybe a mm or so. A protractor should get it dialled in perfectly.

 

[Al ears]

There is a screw on the underside of the tonearm if you need to fiddle with the azimuth but I've never found adjustment necessary. The turntable has VTA adjustment too with tools supplied to set height with or without a mat, or to account for different height carts. It's quite a well designed turntable actually, but a protractor is a must as with any turntable.

Thought there must be some way to adjust it, thanks for clarification