My Arcam CD player is getting old and . . .

[Craig M.]

JohnDuncan:Not as pretty as the Caspian though is it?

and should anything happen to the imac (my mac mini recently needed a new logic board), the caspian is a great cdp.

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

Interesting stuff, chaps. Much to cogitate on there.

The thing is, if and when my Arcam dies, I think I'd be better off buying a non-universal spinner of discs. I have my PS3 for BD&DVD, of which I watch perhaps one a month, compared with listening to music nearly every evening.

Unless anyone out there is saying that, let's say, the Cambridge BD650 at £400 is no less a CD performer than a £400 CD-only player when coupled with my DAC?

Indeed, if I'm reading this thread correctly, some are saying there isn't that much, if any, discernible difference between various players when used as transports with an off-board DAC.

So, let's say I have £400 and I want a CD only player (SACD capability would be a fringe benefit, possibly) what would you chaps recommend? I'm happy to go brand new or second hand.

EDIT: just noticed on eBay an Exposure 2010 CDP and the Arcam DV mentioned earlier in this thread for the same price, £400. Surely the former beats the latter for CD only playback?

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Charlie Jefferson:Interesting stuff, chaps. Much to cogitate on there.

The thing is, if and when my Arcam dies, I think I'd be better off buying a non-universal spinner of discs. I have my PS3 for BD&DVD, of which I watch perhaps one a month, compared with listening to music nearly every evening.

Unless anyone out there is saying that, let's say, the Cambridge BD650 at £400 is no less a CD performer than a £400 CD-only player when coupled with my DAC?

Indeed, if I'm reading this thread correctly, some are saying there isn't that much, if any, discernible difference between various players when used as transports with an off-board DAC.

So, let's say I have £400 and I want a CD only player (SACD capability would be a fringe benefit, possibly) what would you chaps recommend? I'm happy to go brand new or second hand.

EDIT: just noticed on eBay an Exposure 2010 CDP and the Arcam DV mentioned earlier in this thread for the same price, £400. Surely the former beats the latter for CD only playback?

I honestly think that the Cambridge BD player would be no worse than a £400 cd player for just transport duties (and you never know it might even edge them), especially as the Chord DAC has it's excellent buffer that would, I imagine, deal with any transport issues anyway. It will also play BDs and DVDs better than your PS3 and you get SACD coverage.

 

[bretty]

Charlie Jefferson:So, let's say I have £400 and I want a CD only player (SACD capability would be a fringe benefit, possibly) what would you chaps recommend? I'm happy to go brand new or second hand.

Hey Charlie,

This could be your answer. Marantz SA-8400 SACD Player. £395 S/H. I've seen it in the flesh and it's tasty.

HERE

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

Hi Bret,

That looks pretty cool. Will do some research into it.

Options, options . . .

Thanks for the info'

 

[bretty]

No probs, matey.

Here's a piccie. Ooh, she got a purty face

 

[Anonymous]

I've tried all kinds of dvd/blu-ray players as transports for cd and they weren't as good as a basic dedicated cd player. I remember trying out the flagship Arcam dvd player a few years ago (sorry can't remember the model number) and it wasn't even as good as my Sony dvd recorder. However, I recently got my hands on the new Oppo bdp-93 and it is a very good transport for the money. Apparently the CA blu-ray players are built by the same manufacturer...

Last year I also have demo-ed the Roksan Caspian as a transport and it was quite good - smooth and warm sounding is how I remember it. The new cyrus cdtx however was noticably more detailed but more analytical/dry sounding.

 

[Anonymous]

Alternatively, upgrade your mac-dac connection using a Halide Bridge (£350?) http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Halide-Design-Bridge-Review

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

peteAllen:Alternatively, upgrade your mac-dac connection using a Halide Bridge (£350?) http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Halide-Design-Bridge-Review

Thanks for the info, Pete.

Your alternative suggestion is out of the equation, unfortunately, as my Mac and DAC are far apart. Thus, necessitating I stream files from Mac to DAC via an Airport Express. The Halide Bridge is a direct connection, if I read the info' correctly.

The hunt for a disc spinning machine springs from a combination of factors: a fear of my computer or drives packing up in some shape or form ( no evidence they will, just a recessed qualm lodged somewhere in my head); the desire for a new box (sub£400), and the functionality of being able to just stick a disc in a machine and play it. The Mac has become the family computer of choice, and that's where a lot of my music's stored. Although only a minor encumbrance, my streaming gets in the way of others using the computer. Hence, a CDP, still has a role to play.

 

[John Duncan]

Charlie Jefferson:being able to just stick a disc in a machine and play it

Only reason I still have one. Though again, if I had to go out and buy equipment, I'd probably get the Cambridge and a Yamaha receiver (or, more likely, use the one I've got). With the Airport Express round the back for streaming duties, I'm sure I'd be 100% happy*

*well, as happy as one ever gets with hifi

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, another alternative is to get a DNLA-enabled NAS to store your audio files (you should have a backup location anyway), then use a network player e.g. sonus (altho I don't know if it is wifi enabled) and connect that to your dac.

Also, I have just tried the Oppo BDP-93, it will play streamed files from my NAS and the sound quality is superb, really. It has a wifi dongle (although that didn't seem compatible with my sky router so I had to use ethernet cable). This way you can play discs or stream

Alternatively, if itunes is causing trouble, you can probably find some other (better!) software that will run on your mac to stream without popping up all the time (itunes is really needy isn't it?)

 

[Anonymous]

I had the Exposure 2010 many years ago. Really enjoyed it but the bass was a bit warm & fuzzy & lacking definition. I didn't use it as a transport only tho.

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for your further insights re: DNLA-enabled NAS and your experience of the Exposure CDP.

I'm keen to keep my 20,000 plus songs on my existing ext.drives & run it all using my Mac to DAC via AE combo. So I'm not too sure what you're suggesting, and if it's of any benefit to me. Please bear in my mind I'm a computer/tech-dunce. Hence, why I use a Mac. Great functionality, virtually zero knowledge of it's workings required!

The Exposure CDP is vaguely tempting. There are a couple on eBay within budget, but it'd be a blind punt. The same money buys me a new CA BD650. Though that presents problems because I'm still not sure if it's SACD mode would work with my DAC. Or is SACD and off-board DAC not an option?

Who knows, I may just go and buy a lens cleaner tomorrow and see if the stuttering Arcam can be restored to it's former glory.

 

[jiggyjoe]

+1 on that, buying second hand/old cd player could end you up where you started.

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

bretty:
No probs, matey.

Here's a piccie. Ooh, she got a purty face

Thanks for the tantalizing pictorial, Bretty, It looks great. And in many ways I want it.

Then again, I know nothing about the Hastings dealer selling it. Presume you do? Am I right in thinking it's the guy(s) you spoke highly of when you took your first steps into the world of vinyl?

 

[Anonymous]

SACD and separate dac don't mix, sorry. I too was hoping it would work (via an hdmi switch box), but it didn't 🙁

The Cambridge Audio & older Oppo don't work with DLNA, but the new Oppo 93 (£500) does. You can get free software to enable dnla, even for the mac I believe. But you would need wifi or an ethernet connection for the streaming. Additional advantages with the Oppo would be great picture as well as audio from discs too.

 

[Anonymous]

Btw you can try out DLNA with your PS3: http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/connectdlna.html

And install this on your mac: http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/30399/ps3-media-server/

There are probably better options, but it's worth trying

 

[bretty]

Charlie Jefferson:bretty:
No probs, matey.

Here's a piccie. Ooh, she got a purty face

Thanks for the tantalizing pictorial, Bretty, It looks great. And in many ways I want it.Then again, I know nothing about the Hastings dealer selling it. Presume you do? Am I right in thinking it's the guy(s) you spoke highly of when you took your first steps into the world of vinyl?

Yes, you're right, Charlie. He's my local dealer and the one I used for all my components, including the TT. I can vouch for him, he's a good guy. You get a three month warranty with his stuff. If you mention me, you might even get a bit off the price

 

[Anonymous]

Charlie Jefferson:Hi Pete,

Thanks for your further insights re: DNLA-enabled NAS and your experience of the Exposure CDP.

I'm keen to keep my 20,000 plus songs on my existing ext.drives & run it all using my Mac to DAC via AE combo. So I'm not too sure what you're suggesting, and if it's of any benefit to me. Please bear in my mind I'm a computer/tech-dunce. Hence, why I use a Mac. Great functionality, virtually zero knowledge of it's workings required!

The Exposure CDP is vaguely tempting. There are a couple on eBay within budget, but it'd be a blind punt. The same money buys me a new CA BD650. Though that presents problems because I'm still not sure if it's SACD mode would work with my DAC. Or is SACD and off-board DAC not an option?

Who knows, I may just go and buy a lens cleaner tomorrow and see if the stuttering Arcam can be restored to it's former glory.

I'll try to help, with a career based in IT Support behind me... All electronic or analogue data, stored in whatever form is prone to deterioration - this is true for music, whether printed, stored on vinyl, CD or your hard drive. Different factors can accelerate or delay the decay, but decay it will. The dangers with hard drive storage are not greater than for other forms on a fail by fail basis, and the lifespan of a modern drive is extremely good; the increased risk with a hard drive is its capacity. A modern 2TB hard drive can store 2000 hours of studio master quality music (FLAC 24bit @96kHz, more like 8000 hours at CD quality (FLAC 16bit @44.1kHz) and even greater amounts using lossy compressed music formats such as Ogg or MP3. One CD failure, lose 1 hour, one hard drive failure lose everything.

External drives are more at risk than other types, with the connection method, portability and the regular power cycling both increasing the risk to the content. For this reason they are mostly used in the IT world for temporary backup.The safest approach to data storage is in a managed device e.g. a network attached storage system (NAS) which has at least two drives that act as one. This means the disks are not power-cycled nor moved and the data is already replicated (backed up) once, greatly reducing the risk to the stored information. Ideally you would still backup the content to an external drive kept elsewhere...

With your music all stored on a network accessible store, you just access the music from the store and play it in your preferred way, but with the advantage of being able to play it anywhere and on multiple devices e.g. on a smart phone, via your Mac and AE or through a dedicated streamer directly attached to your DAC, controlled by some other device on the network. Video can be stored and played in the same way. FWIW DLNA (Digital Living Network Alliance, an immature, vendor-managed development of the UPnP standard which helps networked media gear communicate with each other) is better suited to video than audio, at the moment at least, but a solution can be provided that can work with DLNA as well as other sharing methods.

Going this route does require some expert help to configure and set up, but I think provides the best and most flexible solution going forward.

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

Thanks for your informed insights.

You've certainly made me aware of the benefits of a NAS-based system, and also the need for some expertise in setting all of it up. It's a route I'd like to take at some stage, although I had vaguely contemplated making things simpler by going for something along the lines of the Olive 4HD device.

Advantages: large storage, connectivity to a DAC, zero need for streaming, but of course I'd have to re-rip everything again.

Excuse my ignorance, and I have re-read your post to ascertain this, but would a NAS-based system mean I had to re-rip all my music again?

In my perfect world, everything I own in digital form (CDs and downloads), would be stored and be accessible from one place. The shelves and shelves of CDs (3,000 plus) would be er, shelved and stored elsewhere, as some are at present, and my family could exist in a clutter-free world. Okay, that's not going to happen anytime soon, but that's where I'm aiming. Contrary to this I still may need a CDP for a particular function, of simply being able to play a disc instantly.

And let's not mention where all my vinyl is going to fit in here.

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

bretty:Charlie Jefferson:bretty:
No probs, matey.

Here's a piccie. Ooh, she got a purty face

Thanks for the tantalizing pictorial, Bretty, It looks great. And in many ways I want it.Then again, I know nothing about the Hastings dealer selling it. Presume you do? Am I right in thinking it's the guy(s) you spoke highly of when you took your first steps into the world of vinyl?

Yes, you're right, Charlie. He's my local dealer and the one I used for all my components, including the TT. I can vouch for him, he's a good guy. You get a three month warranty with his stuff. If you mention me, you might even get a bit off the price

Thanks Bretty, I'm giving it serious consideration. The only caveat (and I also seem to find one) is the non-coupling of SACD to DAC. Then again, I haven't got many SACDs, but do own one or two CDs, so the player would undoubtedly be a decent transport in that respect.

How well did you say you know him? Is your name good for significant discounts?? Joking aside, thanks for the re-assurances.

 

[mitch65]

bretty:Charlie Jefferson:bretty:

No probs, matey.

Here's a piccie. Ooh, she got a purty face

 

[Anonymous]

> NAS Advantages: large storage, connectivity to a DAC, zero need for streaming, but of course I'd have to re-rip everything again.

Your computer will still be perfectly capable for both storage & streaming: I would recommend moving to NAS afterwards not before. NAS is more convenient, it's always on, you can either stream from NAS (many come with DLNA/uPnP streaming functionality out of the box) or use your computer to access the files from the NAS to stream from it. Or use a digital player (e.g. Logitech, Sonus, etc). Streaming is simply just feeding across a file gradually as needed rather than copying the entire file before playing it. E.g. viewing a video on youtube (streaming) vs downloading the entire video which means you can't start watching it until it is on your computer.

Also, "connectivity to a DAC"... NAS is usually quite noisy so you put it away in a cupboard or other room, connect it to the network (I put it next to the wireless router in the ironing cupboard), then you can connect to it using wifi or ethernet cable (Oppo 93 / airport / etc)

> Excuse my ignorance, and I have re-read your post to ascertain this, but would a NAS-based system mean I had to re-rip all my music again?

You don't have to re-rip anything from cd again. However some formats MAY not work with the equipment on the receiving end (e.g. Oppo 93). Apple lossless for instance is sometimes not supported. In these cases you can find some software that will re-encode your audio files from one format to another, and there shouldn't be any loss in quality if they are both lossless e.g. ALAC/m4a files -> wav or flac files. It isn't hard, and you can queue them up so that they all get converted overnight, but you may need someone to help you or to find some very clear instructions on the web... IF you need to convert your audio files. What format are most of your files?

One more thing about NAS - it is not really a holistic backup solution - you should always be keeping separate backups. I have a portable 1Tb hard drive which I also use to synch between a copy of all my music which I have stored on my computer at work. So I have 3 copies of everything, usually ripping music when it arrives from amazon at work, then copying to the portable drive and at home to the NAS. NAS can have redundancy (ie extra drive(s) so that if one fails it is possible to recover) but recovery can be tricky and sometimes doesn't work.

 

[bretty]

mitch65:bretty:Charlie Jefferson:bretty:

No probs, matey.

Here's a piccie. Ooh, she got a purty face

Guilty

Is it definitely the case, that SACD isn't compatible with an external DAC? I notice Pete was feeding his DAC with HDMI in his set up (unless I mis-understood his post). I wonder if using optical might enable it to work?

 

[Shanka]

Hi,

I bought 650BD because I wasn't happy with cd playback off my sony blu ray, saw it beat Arcam cd 37 in a listening test and have quite a lot of sacd,dvd A, a vast improvement in sound even through my Sony.

Have also recently got a caspian cd which is a step up from the cambridge , no question in my ears.

Have fun