Moving on from stereo to a 5.1 set-up

[Dr. Delban]

Hi,

for many of you this will sound like a stupid question.

I am planning to buy either a 5.1 or 7.1 channel amplifier/receiver. I am not doing this to enjoy the surround sound.

My question is, with such setup, when playing music from a CD player (Marantz PM6002) will the music play through all 5 speakers, or only 2?
At the moment I have a stereo integrated amplifier with 4 speakers connected.

Dumbest question ever but oh well... I'm not sure.

 

[davedotco]

Some A/V amplifiers have a setting that gives you 'double stereo', ie the full 2 channel signal is available on front speakers and (usually) the two rear channels, though the speakers can be placed wherever you wish.

Can I ask what you are trying to achieve by using two or more pairs of speakers driven in stereo?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Multi-channel music is either something you'll love or hate - I don't mind it as long as it has been produced/mixed with multi-channel in mind (and done well), but two channel music I prefer to listen to in two channel.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Most will disagree with me here, but my personal choice is for multi-channel stereo. I have mine set so I get music from the fronts and rears, but I had to change my set up to do this, as I was initially getting sound through the centre speaker, which I didn't want, or like.

I quite often click the button on the remote to see what the music I'm listening to sounds like just through the fronts, and I always prefer the sound through both fronts and rears. Purist like the 2 speaker stereo sound, but to my ears it always sounds better through fronts and rears, more full, better bass, more involving.

It's my preference, and it sounds like it will be yours, but bypass the centre speaker, and take time with setting it up.

Which av receiver were you thinking of buying?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

And to answer your question directly, you'll have have several options (depending on which receiver you buy), but my personal choice is the one I outlined above.

 

[Dr. Delban]

What am I trying to achieve is to keep using my current 4 speaker setup with a newly acquired subwoofer.
I do not need surround sound effects.

My current amplifier is Marantz PM6002 which has no subwoofer output. It has a bi-wiring capability which I use for connecting 4 speakers at the time. This produces a more complex sound.
My woofer is B&S ASW608.

My main pair of speakers are Monitor Audio BX2

Secondary speakers are vintage B&S DM110i with burnt tweeters. I bought these speakers dirt cheap a few years ago, as part of an experiment and I got used to the sound. They ann lower-midrange. making rock music sound the way it should.
BX2's on their own don't sound right.

Now they are unplugged and the sub is connected at "speaker level" (using regular speaker cable, connected to "system 2" on the amp)

Now whilst the sub is connected at speaker level, it produces silent humming noise when switched on. If I disable "system2" on the amp, sub starts humming very loud.

I was considering to get some 5.1 or 7.1 channel amplifier/AV receiver. But most of them have these LCDs, and there are no manual bass/treble/balance knobs which I use every day.

During last ten minutes of research I have come across Yamaha R-N500 network Hi-Fi receiver. It has a sub output and allows 4 speakers to be connected.

However, in future I am planning to buy one of the wall-mountable Monitor Audio or B&W speakers. So Ideally I would like a 5 channel amplifier, with a sub out, and manual controls.

Is there such?

 

[davedotco]

The way a sub is set up when operating at speaker level, the loading on the amplifier is negligable, ie there is no reason why you can not connect the sub and the second set of speakers to the same terminals. Just be careful connecting two sets of wires into one set of terminals.

If your amplifier was happy driving both sets of speakers before, adding the sub in this way will make no difference.

An a/v reciever will give you dedicated amplifiers for each pair of speakers and a line level sub output, easier to set up and you will probably get a whole load of DSP settings to play with.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'm not sure if you'll find a receiver with bass and treble knobs, but you can adjust the bass within the receiver quite easily.

I'm no expert here, but it sounds to me like you're in dangerof damaging either your amp, or your sub, or maybe even both with your current set up, so personally, I'd disconnect the sub until someone on here can give you better advice.

EDIT: You now have that advice from Davedotco

 

[Dr. Delban]

Just be careful connecting two sets of wires into one set of terminals.

Thanks for your reply!

What is it exactly that I need to be careful about?

And why is the woofer humming? When system 2 is enabled and I stop the music, I can hear subtle hum. The moment I disable the system2 (which the sub is connected to) the hum kicks off in full force, very loud.
I have checked positive and negative ends are all connected correctly. I am using bare wires, no banana plugs.

 

[davedotco]

The hum problem is either a wiring fault or an earth issue, easy enough to fix but would require hands on to do so. Unless the sub is faulty of course, which on reflection it may be.

Irrespective of the number of sets of terminals, most speakers will drive two pairs of speakers, in the designs being discussed it is electricaly identical connecting two pairs of speakers to one set of terminals as it is using two sets (A + B). All you lose is the convenience of selecting A or B etc.

The 5th channel is specifically for dialogue on a movie, so only available on an A/V reciever, no idea what it would do on music.

 

[Dr. Delban]

I'm not sure if you'll find a receiver with bass and treble knobs, but you can adjust the bass within the receiver quite easily.

I'm no expert here, but it sounds to me like you're in dangerof damaging either your amp, or your sub, or maybe even both with your current set up, so personally, I'd disconnect the sub until someone on here can give you better advice.

EDIT: You now have that advice from Davedotco

Thanks for reply.

I am going to disconnect the sub tomorrow morning and plug the DM110i's back in.

So if I get a 5.1 amp/receiver, and play a stereo music (from CD or PC) will the stereo play on all four speakers? And if I was to get a fifth speaker (such as Monitor Audio BXFX) will it play both channels at a time?

 

[davedotco]

You need to do some simple fault finding, by trial and error.

Firstly disconnect all speakers, including the sub. With the sub switched on and set to normal levels, check for hum.

If it is humming significantly when unconnected, it is faulty, if not connect it, and only it to the amp. Play some music, you should just hear the sub bass rumble.

Then add one set of speakers, listen, then add the second set, try and see what combination is causing the hum.

 

[Dr. Delban]

You need to do some simple fault finding, by trial and error.

Firstly disconnect all speakers, including the sub. With the sub switched on and set to normal levels, check for hum.

If it is humming significantly when unconnected, it is faulty, if not connect it, and only it to the amp. Play some music, you should just hear the sub bass rumble.

Then add one set of speakers, listen, then add the second set, try and see what combination is causing the hum.

Thanks for that, this is what I was just thinking about. I need to run these diagnostic, if its faulty I will need to return it.

 

[Dr. Delban]

I have now disconnected the sub from the amp. Turned it on. No hum.
I am not going to try other combinations, I find it pointless. I want to use this sub with all of my speaker, and definitely at least with th BX2's.

Has anybody tried out the Yamaha R-N500 ?

 

[davedotco]

I'm not sure if you'll find a receiver with bass and treble knobs, but you can adjust the bass within the receiver quite easily.

I'm no expert here, but it sounds to me like you're in dangerof damaging either your amp, or your sub, or maybe even both with your current set up, so personally, I'd disconnect the sub until someone on here can give you better advice.

EDIT: You now have that advice from Davedotco

Thanks for reply.

I am going to disconnect the sub tomorrow morning and plug the DM110i's back in.

So if I get a 5.1 amp/receiver, and play a stereo music (from CD or PC) will the stereo play on all four speakers? And if I was to get a fifth speaker (such as Monitor Audio BXFX) will it play both channels at a time?

If the 5.1 reciever can be set to play normal stereo on front and rear speakers then yes.

As a said earlier, the 5th channel is for dialogue, so probably little use for music but what you can send to that speaker will depend on the settings on the reciever, it might let you send a mono (L + R) to the centre channel but there is no obvious reason why it would do so.

 

[Dr. Delban]

I'm not sure if you'll find a receiver with bass and treble knobs, but you can adjust the bass within the receiver quite easily.

I'm no expert here, but it sounds to me like you're in dangerof damaging either your amp, or your sub, or maybe even both with your current set up, so personally, I'd disconnect the sub until someone on here can give you better advice.

EDIT: You now have that advice from Davedotco

Thanks for reply.

I am going to disconnect the sub tomorrow morning and plug the DM110i's back in.

So if I get a 5.1 amp/receiver, and play a stereo music (from CD or PC) will the stereo play on all four speakers? And if I was to get a fifth speaker (such as Monitor Audio BXFX) will it play both channels at a time?

If the 5.1 reciever can be set to play normal stereo on front and rear speakers then yes.

As a said earlier, the 5th channel is for dialogue, so probably little use for music but what you can send to that speaker will depend on the settings on the reciever, it might let you send a mono (L + R) to the centre channel but there is no obvious reason why it would do so.

The reason why I'd like to do this is to keep my current system and have the wall-mounted speaker with two tweeters, filling the room with high frequencies. I am not desperate to get this spearek anyway.

I am now on the right track. I realized that what I really need is a Stereo Network Receiver. I am looking at some models now, Yamaha seems like something I would like. I like its classic look. I need to make some deep research now.

I might say... problem solved! I'm not getting a 5.1 nor 7.1 and I have diagnosed my woofer as fully functional.

Thanks guys!

 

[davedotco]

If you find a little faultfinding "pointless" then I do not understand.

If you want to use the sub with all your speakers, you need to find out what makes it hum so you can fix it. What happens when you connect just the sub to your amp, hum or no hum?

I have played with the R-N500, it is a very nice, inexpensive stereo network/dac amplifier. I can not see why it would be significantly different to your current amplifier apart from the dedicated sub output.

 

[Wuss]

So if I get a 5.1 amp/receiver, and play a stereo music (from CD or PC) will the stereo play on all four speakers? And if I was to get a fifth speaker (such as Monitor Audio BXFX) will it play both channels at a time?

Depends on the AV amp. My last AV amp (a yamaha) was a bit picky about how it played a stereo source, it was either 5.1 or straight bypass to FL/FR.

My current AV amp Arcam will only play a stereo source to one of 3 options 1, FL/FR 2, FL/FR+sub (which is how I usually use it) 3, Bypass to FL/FR

HTH.

 

[Dr. Delban]

No sorry I didn't mean that troubleshooting is pointless. I think I was tired and skipped a sentence or two it this post. I was going to say that I find it pointless to keep using my current amp, because it has no sub out. I cannot be asked trying different combinations and connecting speakers in some ghetto way.

The R-N500 has a dedicated sub output, and it has additional functionality. However, I have read some negative reviews and I am still considering other models. Onkyo A-9050 seems like a good piece of equipment too.

Any suggestions?

 

[davedotco]

Buy a big A/V reciever secondhand, they go for peanuts and give you loads of channels and stuff to play with.