Monitor Audio RS6 vs. Sonus Faber Toy

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matthewpiano:The comparison is ridiculous. Given the prices I would be concerned if the SFs didn't sound better in SOME waysMore interestingly, you seem impressed by the Focals (which doesn't surprise me at all because they are fabulous speakers). Are they not an option? I would have thought they represent a better all round balance than the SFs.matthewpiano you always compare speakers to the ones youve got so to say the comparison is ridiculous is just that also bear in mind the toys start at a price about £100 more than the rs6 so its not even outrageous

also kerio was just commenting on the differences in sound not saying the rs6 were rubbish

finally the balance of the sfs is better than that of the focals to my ears because appreciation of balance is a purely subjective and the balance of the focals is too forward in the treble for me
 
one off, £100 more than the MAs buys the tiny Toy standmounts. The floorstanders are substantially more. If we are comparing the standmount Toys to the RS6 then the comparison becomes even more difficult.

I wasn't making any statements about the balance of the Focals vs the Toy, just bouncing ideas around based on what the OP has already said. He seemed impressed with the Focals so I was merely prompting some further thought on the topic.

I didn't berate kerio for criticising the MAs either. I can't live with MAs myself so I can completely understand why someone wouldn't like them as a long term listen. However, some of the comments in this thread about the SFs being Hi-fi and the MAs being mid-fi are just plain snobbery. There are NO absolutes in hi-fi and, as you say, its all down to personal opinion and nothing more.
 
matthewpiano it is the stand mount toys that are the subject of discussion

if someones happy with a speaker and has decided to go with them then further discussion would seem superfluous though id agree focal and sonus faber are again very different in voicing

but i still think you should forget the inbetween steps and go for the operas yourself
emotion-1.gif


british speaker manufacturers have much to learn from the italians

edit by the way i agree fully midfi doesnt exist and there is a lot of snobbery in hifi but i think thats unfortunately part and parcel of the hobby
 
matthewpiano:one off, £100 more than the MAs buys the tiny Toy standmounts. The floorstanders are substantially more. If we are comparing the standmount Toys to the RS6 then the comparison becomes even more difficult. I wasn't making any statements about the balance of the Focals vs the Toy, just bouncing ideas around based on what the OP has already said. He seemed impressed with the Focals so I was merely prompting some further thought on the topic. I didn't berate kerio for criticising the MAs either. I can't live with MAs myself so I can completely understand why someone wouldn't like them as a long term listen. However, some of the comments in this thread about the SFs being Hi-fi and the MAs being mid-fi are just plain snobbery. There are NO absolutes in hi-fi and, as you say, its all down to personal opinion and nothing more.

Like I said earlier.....

I agree with you - It doesn't matter whether someone loves or loathes MA's, that an individuals choice. But how the OP can mention a £650 speaker and in the same breath compare it to a two grand pair I find puzzling. It would be like comparing my Alfa to a Ferrari - and is the OP's kit good enough to make the most of Sonus speakers?
 
plastic penguin:
matthewpiano:one off, £100 more than the MAs buys the tiny Toy standmounts. The floorstanders are substantially more. If we are comparing the standmount Toys to the RS6 then the comparison becomes even more difficult. I wasn't making any statements about the balance of the Focals vs the Toy, just bouncing ideas around based on what the OP has already said. He seemed impressed with the Focals so I was merely prompting some further thought on the topic. I didn't berate kerio for criticising the MAs either. I can't live with MAs myself so I can completely understand why someone wouldn't like them as a long term listen. However, some of the comments in this thread about the SFs being Hi-fi and the MAs being mid-fi are just plain snobbery. There are NO absolutes in hi-fi and, as you say, its all down to personal opinion and nothing more.

Like I said earlier.....

I agree with you - It doesn't matter whether someone loves or loathes MA's, that an individuals choice. But how the OP can mention a £650 speaker and in the same breath compare it to a two grand pair I find puzzling. It would be like comparing my Alfa to a Ferrari - and is the OP's kit good enough to make the most of Sonus speakers?pp have a look at the sf toy price on this website were talking £729 http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/
 
one off:pp have a look at the sf toy price on this website were talking £729 http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/

Given that fact, then I would have thought the Naim N-Sat (£770) should be on the 'must audition' list to partner a Nait 5i.
 
one off:plastic penguin:

matthewpiano:one off, £100 more than the MAs buys the tiny Toy standmounts. The floorstanders are substantially more. If we are comparing the standmount Toys to the RS6 then the comparison becomes even more difficult. I wasn't making any statements about the balance of the Focals vs the Toy, just bouncing ideas around based on what the OP has already said. He seemed impressed with the Focals so I was merely prompting some further thought on the topic. I didn't berate kerio for criticising the MAs either. I can't live with MAs myself so I can completely understand why someone wouldn't like them as a long term listen. However, some of the comments in this thread about the SFs being Hi-fi and the MAs being mid-fi are just plain snobbery. There are NO absolutes in hi-fi and, as you say, its all down to personal opinion and nothing more.

Like I said earlier.....

I agree with you - It doesn't matter whether someone loves or loathes MA's, that an individuals choice. But how the OP can mention a £650 speaker and in the same breath compare it to a two grand pair I find puzzling. It would be like comparing my Alfa to a Ferrari - and is the OP's kit good enough to make the most of Sonus speakers?pp have a look at the sf toy price on this website were talking £729 http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/

What do they normally retail at?

The problem is the Naim amp. The brand is fabulous, but when matched with RS6's in a compact room the sound repro is dreadful. Regardless of what the retailers say: bare in mind, a retail shop, however good their dem rooms are, they draw absolutely no resemblence, both in size and acoustically, to the average living room. That's why any serious auditions I always scrounge from fav retailer and borrow the item for the weekend.

If the OP was to test his own apathy, he should borrow any Arcam amp for a couple of days. The difference is literally night and day.

The detail levels are stark. The Arcam, for all its faults, makes the RS6's sing, the bass will be controlled and the overall balance will be far superior. That's not because the Naim is bad, far from it, but it is proned to a fatiguing sound when poorly matched. The added bonus is that Arcam will have better synergy with the Nad CDP to boot.
 
plastic penguin:
What do they normally retail at?

Price at launch was around £845 but Stoneaudio do them for £729 and Oxford Audio have them for £515 (new).
The N-Sats have a larger (130mm) bass/mid driver and are sealed boxes. (Toy is 110mm and rear ported)

I would strongly encourage auditioning the N-Sats (given that Naim synergy factor)

And by the same logic of synergy (and based on personal experience) I would look toward getting a Naim (or Rega Apollo) CD player.

Another suggestion (if the N-Sats or Toy speakers don't fill the space at your desired volume levels) is for the Rega RS3 floorstanders at around the same budget (£684 I think).
 
chebby:plastic penguin:

What do they normally retail at?

Price at launch was around £845 but Stoneaudio do them for £729 and Oxford Audio have them for £515 (new).
The N-Sats have a larger (130mm) bass/mid driver and are sealed boxes. (Toy is 110mm and rear ported)

I would strongly encourage auditioning the N-Sats (given that Naim synergy factor)

And by the same logic of synergy (and based on personal experience) I would look toward getting a Naim (or Rega Apollo) CD player.

Thanks, Chebby.

I agree the N-Sats are the most logical choice - the OP, however, started off by mentioning the Fabers (amongst others), then the Toys and his recent suggestion is Neat Motive 2 and 3.....

It appears to me is reluctant to let the RS6's go, while wishing to eliminate the harshness he gets from the system. So I'm suggesting he thinks slightly outside the box and tests a different amp.
 
It defies logic to make a FS sing beautifully in such a small room like the OP has and later complaining its 'boomy' and 'uncontrolled'. Yes, indeed, any FS for that matter will sound rubbish no matter what your supporting equipments are if the room is small - and because its boomy in small room a FS can't be judged its 'midfi' and since a BS is sounding excellent in a small room, can't be a 'hifi' as well.

As I said before, the room is the 'culprit' and instead of cursing it, the 'speaker' takes the full blow here.:{
 
plastic penguin:chebby:plastic penguin:
What do they normally retail at?

Price at launch was around £845 but Stoneaudio do them for £729 and Oxford Audio have them for £515 (new).
The N-Sats have a larger (130mm) bass/mid driver and are sealed boxes. (Toy is 110mm and rear ported)

I would strongly encourage auditioning the N-Sats (given that Naim synergy factor)

And by the same logic of synergy (and based on personal experience) I would look toward getting a Naim (or Rega Apollo) CD player.

Thanks, Chebby.

I agree the N-Sats are the most logical choice - the OP, however, started off by mentioning the Fabers (amongst others), then the Toys and his recent suggestion is Neat Motive 2 and 3.....

It appears to me is reluctant to let the RS6's go, while wishing to eliminate the harshness he gets from the system. So I'm suggesting he thinks slightly outside the box and tests a different amp.

funnily enough i heard the n-sats at the same time as the toys

for me they were a hard unlikeable speaker with little bass that even naim afficianados admit you either love or hate

theyre hardly the logical choice at all

i dont really understand what you all want to prove by slagging off someone whose tastes are different to yours

let him listen to and buy what he likes rather than try to throw him off with false pearls of wisdom

personally i also dont like ma particularly the rs6 but i wouldnt have thought it a crime as some of you do
 
one off:plastic penguin:chebby:plastic penguin:

What do they normally retail at?

Price at launch was around £845 but Stoneaudio do them for £729 and Oxford Audio have them for £515 (new).
The N-Sats have a larger (130mm) bass/mid driver and are sealed boxes. (Toy is 110mm and rear ported)

I would strongly encourage auditioning the N-Sats (given that Naim synergy factor)

And by the same logic of synergy (and based on personal experience) I would look toward getting a Naim (or Rega Apollo) CD player.

Thanks, Chebby.

I agree the N-Sats are the most logical choice - the OP, however, started off by mentioning the Fabers (amongst others), then the Toys and his recent suggestion is Neat Motive 2 and 3.....

It appears to me is reluctant to let the RS6's go, while wishing to eliminate the harshness he gets from the system. So I'm suggesting he thinks slightly outside the box and tests a different amp.

funnily enough i heard the n-sats at the same time as the toys

for me they were a hard unlikeable speaker with little bass that even naim afficianados admit you either love or hate

theyre hardly the logical choice at all

i dont really understand what you all want to prove by slagging off someone whose tastes are different to yours

let him listen to and buy what he likes rather than try to throw him off with false pearls of wisdom

personally i also dont like ma particularly the rs6 but i wouldnt have thought it a crime as some of you do

I've not slagged him off - he's asked for advice and I, like others, have given him alternatives. The OP has mention various different speakers trying obtain the perfect sound (if such a thing exists), thus suggested he may be looking at the wrong component. If he could test a different amp, maybe that would be a better compromise.

Regards the N-Sats, I've not personally heard them, but others have recommended them, and from the same stable, would appear to be a good option.

We are hear to help anyone, in spite of whether they take the advice or not.
 
I sincerely appreciate all your recommendations and I read carefully all your comments.

Yes, the room is indeed a problem but...I cannot change it for this moment ! 🙂

My problem is not harshness but instead the difficulty to place RS6 without having a boomy bass.

The fact the Sonus Faber is more musical vs.RS6 is just an extra advantage an not the reason that I want to change the actual speakers.

In fact I don`t feel comfortable at all that everyone and everywhere is acclaiming RS6 and I just want to change them with a tiny tiny Italian speakers used mainly as surround speakers.It is like everyone is telling me that I am going to make a mistake....🙂

I think that are two variants:

-RS6 keeper and change amplifier to ARCAM,Audio Analogue,Unison,tubes....

-Naim keeper and look on Neat,Sonus Faber,Dynaudio ,Rega.

I don`t understand also why Naim is considered boomy with RS6?Isn`t it NAD more bassy with less control on bass than Naim and still recommended as good pair wih RS6?
 
I think PP might just have hit the nail on the head personally, and that trying an Arcam amp would be well worthwhile. A used A32 would control those RS6s beautifully - there is a real synergy between Arcam and MA. You clearly like the basic sound signature of the MAs so perhaps another alternative would be to try a pair of RS1s or even some GS10s if you can't make the floorstanders work, although again the synergy would be much better with Arcam than with Naim (and that isn't to criticise Naim because I love their kit).

I suspect that in going for the tiny little Toy, good though it may be, you will end up at the other end of the spectrum. I'm not saying don't buy them, but I would certainly try to organise a home demo before you part with the money. I would also think that you'll get the best out of the Toys if you then upgrade your electronics to something from either Audio Analogue or Unison Research, so it also depends how much of a long term upgrade plan you wish to embark on.
 
unfortunately kerio squabbles have got in the way of good advice here

if i were you id forget the recommendations here go out and listen then buy what you like

apologies that you havent had better advice and help
 
plastic penguin:one off:plastic penguin:chebby:plastic penguin:
What do they normally retail at?

Price at launch was around £845 but Stoneaudio do them for £729 and Oxford Audio have them for £515 (new).
The N-Sats have a larger (130mm) bass/mid driver and are sealed boxes. (Toy is 110mm and rear ported)

I would strongly encourage auditioning the N-Sats (given that Naim synergy factor)

And by the same logic of synergy (and based on personal experience) I would look toward getting a Naim (or Rega Apollo) CD player.

Thanks, Chebby.

I agree the N-Sats are the most logical choice - the OP, however, started off by mentioning the Fabers (amongst others), then the Toys and his recent suggestion is Neat Motive 2 and 3.....

It appears to me is reluctant to let the RS6's go, while wishing to eliminate the harshness he gets from the system. So I'm suggesting he thinks slightly outside the box and tests a different amp.

funnily enough i heard the n-sats at the same time as the toys

for me they were a hard unlikeable speaker with little bass that even naim afficianados admit you either love or hate

theyre hardly the logical choice at all

i dont really understand what you all want to prove by slagging off someone whose tastes are different to yours

let him listen to and buy what he likes rather than try to throw him off with false pearls of wisdom

personally i also dont like ma particularly the rs6 but i wouldnt have thought it a crime as some of you do

I've not slagged him off - he's asked for advice and I, like others, have given him alternatives. The OP has mention various different speakers trying obtain the perfect sound (if such a thing exists), thus suggested he may be looking at the wrong component. If he could test a different amp, maybe that would be a better compromise.

Regards the N-Sats, I've not personally heard them, but others have recommended them, and from the same stable, would appear to be a good option.

We are hear to help anyone, in spite of whether they take the advice or not.

and you think it good advice to recommend something you havent heard in the first place

see my previous post
 
one off:
unfortunately kerio squabbles have got in the way of good advice here

if i were you id forget the recommendations here go out and listen then buy what you like

apologies that you havent had better advice and help

Sorry but that is unfair. When anybody posts on a forum the aim isn't necessarily for everyone to agree but to gather together the ideas and thoughts of different people so that a range of solutions are proposed which the OP can then consider through listening/further investigation.

Yes, the OP has been impressed by the SF Toy and that clearly merits further consideration, but it would be poor if, on a hi-fi forum, nobody picked up on Kerio's clear liking for most of what his RS6s do. As you yourself have stated, the MA and SF signatures are completely different and so it is surely right for the matter to be explored as fully as possible.

Your passion for Italian hi-fi brings a very welcome added dimension round here and will hopefully help to raise the profile of brands like Audio Analogue, Opera and Sonus Faber, but it isn't the right solution for everyone and there has to be room for discussion of the alternatives.
 
well meant matthewpiano but the passion is about the rs6s not much else and there have been comments from some who havent even heard some of the equipment theyve recommended

if thats good advice then im a jellied eel
 
I have narrowed my options to these three standmount speakers,in order of preference:

-Sonus Faber Toy

-Dynaudio 52

-Neat Motive 3

I have sold the RS6 and kept Naim as it seems the best choice at this moment.
 
kerio:

I have narrowed my options to these three standmount speakers,in order of preference:

-Sonus Faber Toy

-Dynaudio 52

-Neat Motive 3

I have sold the RS6 and kept Naim as it seems the best choice at this moment.

Not heard the Toys, the Dynos I have. Are they the 52SE's or the standard 52's? Given you have a compact room (similar size to mine, in fact), I would certainly plump for Neat Motive 3's. The reason is very simple: the Dynos are wonderful speakers but they do need lots of space e.g. well away from walls.

The Neats, on the other hand, will keep their stereo image far better and the bass will be far more controlled closer to the wall. By the way, the Neats are fabulous for the money.
 
Because I am familiar to MA and liked them,and also because I needed a bookshelf,I finally ordered GS10 (Natural Oak) and original GS10 stands.
 
Uhh.....yes!!

I hope that the improvement over RS6 to justify to difference paid.

Now is time for another amp and another cables!

Maybe Arcam,Musical Fidelity,Unison Unico, Audio Analogue.....I don`t really know at this moment!

On the other side,I think I will come back to Van Den Hul cables.
 
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