Mission 782 - Bright Treble

[JumpingJackFlash90]

Hi All,

My first post here...

I recently purchased some Mission 782 floorstanders second hand from ebay. I replaced both mid-range drivers direct from Mission themselves.

The scale and dynamics produced by the speakers are fairly impressive, however, given the good reputation of these speakers, I'm surprised how bright and splashy the treble can be. With certain recordings I find it almost un-listenable for any length of time - upper mid-range vocals can sound harsh and unnatural.

Has anyone else any experience with replacing the mid-range units on Mission 782s (specifically these are not the "SE" model)?
Can anyone see an obvious mis-match in my system pairing?
Any suggestions for a fix/upgrade?

All help thoroughly welcome!

 

[FennerMachine]

I owned a pair of Mission 782's for several years.

They were always a bit bright with the equipment I used them with but overall were quite good, especially for movies as I had no subwoofer. The bright sound could get to me after a while especially with brightly mastered/compressed albums. Some of this was due to Cyrus amps exacerbating the issue.

It is likely the Ceraform mid cones causing the 'bright' sound hence the upper mid-range vocals sounding harsh/unnatural.

I have read that partnered with the right kit such as an amp that works well with them, they can sound amazing. Maybe try them with some other amps just to eliminate that as the issue.

 

[MakkaPakka]

What is the room like? Have you tried softening the area around the speakers with cushions/duvets, etc. to see if you can tame the sound a bit?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I have a pair of the SE version & have no issue with the top end. They are been driven by an old Yamaha AX-620 reciever which controls them very well.

I did go through a faze of upgrade-atitis not so long ago & tried them with a couple of stereo 60watt amps in the 700poundish range and found they did not perform aswell as they do with the Yamaha, which can (on paper) deliver a 90watt output to 5 full range speakers plus drive a sub. Its driven in stereo with all unused channels switched off - theoretically giving it more than enough head room to handle these speakers - which I suspect are quite demanding.

the issues with the stereo amps was as you discribe although some tracks did benifit the majority became fatiguing.

If you have tone controls do not be afraid to play - these speakers are revealing and clear and will expose below par recordings, sources and interconnects, I would actually suggest trying other interconnects between source and amp, although this may sound crazy,

Looking in your sig I noticed you have a pair of CA-1 interconnects - I have a pair of CA Pacific in the house and they're 'bright' sounding try a pair of QED performance 2, around the 35-40pound mark new. which I find are a very clean, airy and easy sounding interconnects (Stay clear of Chord interconnects they too are fatiguing) that may well suit the amp/source combo you have.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

To add, my mid range drivers were replaced many moons ago - mid range is probably the main strength of these speakers male and female and going loud without being loud, if you know what I mean, driven well they are really good speakers I would not know what to replace them with.

try interconnects from QED - see how you get on

 

[JumpingJackFlash90]

What is the room like? Have you tried softening the area around the speakers with cushions/duvets, etc. to see if you can tame the sound a bit?

Hi MakkaPakka - thanks for suggestion. Room is fairly large - about 4.5metres square. I will certainly experiment with some deadening around the speakers...there's already carpet on the floor and a bed, so I'm not sure how much more I can do. In terms of other audio qualities of the room...there are painted wooden doors on two of the walls (walk in wardrobe - sliding types). Do you think this could have an adverse effect on the acoustics? e.g. reflection...etc

 

[JumpingJackFlash90]

To add, my mid range drivers were replaced many moons ago - mid range is probably the main strength of these speakers male and female and going loud without being loud, if you know what I mean, driven well they are really good speakers I would not know what to replace them with.

try interconnects from QED - see how you get on

Thanks for your response - hadnt really considered the idea the interconnects could be a problem point...certainly something to consider. Further to your point about amplifier power - I think the Marantz is 'only' around 55 Watts. I had actually been thinking the speakers might need a little more - but not sure if this would solve the bright treble/mid range problems...?

 

[nima]

I'm surprised how bright and splashy the treble can be. With certain recordings I find it almost un-listenable for any length of time - upper mid-range vocals can sound harsh and unnatural.

That's almost exactly how I would describe Marantz CD63 SE or KIS. The SE went back to the shop the same day I brought it home. I haven't tried a Marantz CD player at home since. My second most horrible hi-fi experience ever. I don't know CD6000 OSE, but just a thought.

Can you try different player or DAC? I have heard a few Mission speakers, I would not describe them as bright, if anything I'd say they lack some treble.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The power is important - if your amp is driven to the point of distortion ( most modern amps are poorly attinuated and deliver 'all' their power around the 9o'clock position) so even though to your mind the amp should be operating well within its range truth is you're driving it to its max - anything thereafter is out of its range.

These speakers will relay that with distortion the inability of the amp to control the speakers.

The 60watt amps struggled but the yamaha can go loud without any distortion - the Missions are rated at max handling of 200watt at 6ohm. Chances are the amp is running out of puff. Saying that the clarity of the QED performanc 2's may give the amp a 'cleaner' signal which you will notice/hear - thats the quality of these speakers.

I use QED One digital coax ( I use the DAC in the amp) and have a pair of the performance 2. My preference is the QED One, but the performance 2 are good if less 'direct/full. Try Ebay or any other site you may find a cheap pair for sale. Let us know how you get on.

 

[TrevC]

If you have bright sounding speakers the fix is to turn the treble down a bit, or change the speakers to some that are not too bright. Fiddling with interconnects is pointless.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

If you have bright sounding speakers the fix is to turn the treble down a bit, or change the speakers to some that are not too bright. Fiddling with interconnects is pointless.

lol..... I swear, you...honestly, are you crazy?

The speakers are good I own a pair and they are detailed - but given a clean signal they will reward. What the OP discribes does not warrent massive spend or huge shifts in equ but refinement, subtle adjustments (I have to take it your system really does not respond to subtle change, these speakers do)

Try interconnects they're relatively cheap - if you hear no difference then by all means follow this fo... er.... fellow forum member.

Actually, do allow these speakers time to loosen up

 

[TrevC]

If you have bright sounding speakers the fix is to turn the treble down a bit, or change the speakers to some that are not too bright. Fiddling with interconnects is pointless.

lol..... I swear, you...honestly, are you crazy?

The speakers are good I own a pair and they are detailed - but given a clean signal they will reward. What the OP discribes does not warrent massive spend or huge shifts in equ but refinement, subtle adjustments (I have to take it your system really does not respond to subtle change, these speakers do)

Try interconnects they're relatively cheap - if you hear no difference then by all means follow this fo... er.... fellow forum member.

Actually, do allow these speakers time to loosen up

He said he finds them to be bright. Nothing else could cause that.

He should use thick speaker cables though.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

 

[nima]

C'mon. Both interconects and speaker cables do make the diffference - to some people. Avoiding silver cables would first thing to do. I think the problems might be bigger than this though - CD player.

 

[TrevC]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

I think you misunderstand, you say use thick speaker cables & yet interconnects make no difference. you see no problem with that statement.

So there is a difference between bell wire and a thick cable yet this does not tranasfer to interconnects.... somethings wrong with you mister.

 

[TrevC]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

I think you misunderstand, you say use thick speaker cables & yet interconnects make no difference. you see no problem with that statement.

So there is a difference between bell wire and a thick cable yet this does not tranasfer to interconnects.... somethings wrong with you mister.

Thin cables on a speaker cause voltage drop because of the low impedances involved, and the voltage drop is uneven across the audio band because the impedance of a speaker varies across the audio band. B&W specify a maximum resistance value of 0.1 ohm for speaker cables to ensure good fidelity. Interconnects have no such issue, because the input impedance of the typical amplifier is far higher than the cable resistance, or impedance if you prefer.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

I think you misunderstand, you say use thick speaker cables & yet interconnects make no difference. you see no problem with that statement.

So there is a difference between bell wire and a thick cable yet this does not tranasfer to interconnects.... somethings wrong with you mister.

Thin cables on a speaker cause voltage drop because of the low impedances involved, and the voltage drop is uneven across the audio band because the impedance of a speaker varies across the audio band. B&W specify a maximum resistance value of 0.1 ohm for speaker cables to ensure good fidelity. Interconnects have no such issue, because the input impedance of the typical amplifier is far higher than the cable resistance, or impedance if you prefer.

What?

So the 75ohm or something like that impedence on digital coax cables have no value?

anyone who knows the value can help me out here, thanks.

 

[TrevC]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

I think you misunderstand, you say use thick speaker cables & yet interconnects make no difference. you see no problem with that statement.

So there is a difference between bell wire and a thick cable yet this does not tranasfer to interconnects.... somethings wrong with you mister.

Thin cables on a speaker cause voltage drop because of the low impedances involved, and the voltage drop is uneven across the audio band because the impedance of a speaker varies across the audio band. B&W specify a maximum resistance value of 0.1 ohm for speaker cables to ensure good fidelity. Interconnects have no such issue, because the input impedance of the typical amplifier is far higher than the cable resistance, or impedance if you prefer.

What?

So the 75ohm or something like that impedence on digital coax cables have no value?

anyone who knows the value can help me out here, thanks.

The characteristic impedance of a cable is only relevant at radio frequencies.

 

[nima]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

I think you misunderstand, you say use thick speaker cables & yet interconnects make no difference. you see no problem with that statement.

So there is a difference between bell wire and a thick cable yet this does not tranasfer to interconnects.... somethings wrong with you mister.

Thin cables on a speaker cause voltage drop because of the low impedances involved, and the voltage drop is uneven across the audio band because the impedance of a speaker varies across the audio band. B&W specify a maximum resistance value of 0.1 ohm for speaker cables to ensure good fidelity. Interconnects have no such issue, because the input impedance of the typical amplifier is far higher than the cable resistance, or impedance if you prefer.

What?

So the 75ohm or something like that impedence on digital coax cables have no value?

anyone who knows the value can help me out here, thanks.

The characteristic impedance of a cable is only relevant at radio frequencies.

Stop boring everybody on the forum and register a religious organisation.

 

[TrevC]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

I think you misunderstand, you say use thick speaker cables & yet interconnects make no difference. you see no problem with that statement.

So there is a difference between bell wire and a thick cable yet this does not tranasfer to interconnects.... somethings wrong with you mister.

Thin cables on a speaker cause voltage drop because of the low impedances involved, and the voltage drop is uneven across the audio band because the impedance of a speaker varies across the audio band. B&W specify a maximum resistance value of 0.1 ohm for speaker cables to ensure good fidelity. Interconnects have no such issue, because the input impedance of the typical amplifier is far higher than the cable resistance, or impedance if you prefer.

What?

So the 75ohm or something like that impedence on digital coax cables have no value?

anyone who knows the value can help me out here, thanks.

The characteristic impedance of a cable is only relevant at radio frequencies.

Stop boring everybody on the forum and register a religious organisation.

Love the irony.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

I think you misunderstand, you say use thick speaker cables & yet interconnects make no difference. you see no problem with that statement.

So there is a difference between bell wire and a thick cable yet this does not tranasfer to interconnects.... somethings wrong with you mister.

Thin cables on a speaker cause voltage drop because of the low impedances involved, and the voltage drop is uneven across the audio band because the impedance of a speaker varies across the audio band. B&W specify a maximum resistance value of 0.1 ohm for speaker cables to ensure good fidelity. Interconnects have no such issue, because the input impedance of the typical amplifier is far higher than the cable resistance, or impedance if you prefer.

What?

So the 75ohm or something like that impedence on digital coax cables have no value?

anyone who knows the value can help me out here, thanks.

The characteristic impedance of a cable is only relevant at radio frequencies.

lol.... I tried using a standard interconnect, single leg once from my amp to my sub - it did not work.

but you do realise we are talking electrical signals across a conducter - the source is doing exactly the same thing to the amp that an amp is doing to a speaker - you understand this. the same laws apply from point A to point B across the conducters. You understand that?

 

[AlbaBrown]

Ha!

I read the forum title as 762s, not 782s, and was going to wade in saying they were a dull, flat old speaker!

I'm not familiar with the 782, but certainly the combination of the Marantz gear with the Ecosse AND Chord Cables would make things a tad aggressive!!

Give Telluirum Q Blue speaker cable & interconnects a try. They will be a big step up (particularly over the Chord), and do have a subtle soothing effect on the upper mid/treble without sacrificing detail. I'm sure you would find a dealer with a loan set.

 

[TrevC]

He should use thick speaker cables but the interconnects make no difference........ :O

You're catching on, finally.

I think you misunderstand, you say use thick speaker cables & yet interconnects make no difference. you see no problem with that statement.

So there is a difference between bell wire and a thick cable yet this does not tranasfer to interconnects.... somethings wrong with you mister.

Thin cables on a speaker cause voltage drop because of the low impedances involved, and the voltage drop is uneven across the audio band because the impedance of a speaker varies across the audio band. B&W specify a maximum resistance value of 0.1 ohm for speaker cables to ensure good fidelity. Interconnects have no such issue, because the input impedance of the typical amplifier is far higher than the cable resistance, or impedance if you prefer.

What?

So the 75ohm or something like that impedence on digital coax cables have no value?

anyone who knows the value can help me out here, thanks.

The characteristic impedance of a cable is only relevant at radio frequencies.

lol.... I tried using a standard interconnect, single leg once from my amp to my sub - it did not work.

but you do realise we are talking electrical signals across a conducter - the source is doing exactly the same thing to the amp that an amp is doing to a speaker - you understand this. the same laws apply from point A to point B across the conducters. You understand that?

Not really. Could you explain further?

 

[TrevC]

Ha!

I read the forum title as 762s, not 782s, and was going to wade in saying they were a dull, flat old speaker!

I'm not familiar with the 782, but certainly the combination of the Marantz gear with the Ecosse AND Chord Cables would make things a tad aggressive!!

Give Telluirum Q Blue speaker cable & interconnects a try. They will be a big step up (particularly over the Chord), and do have a subtle soothing effect on the upper mid/treble without sacrificing detail. I'm sure you would find a dealer with a loan set.

Disproportionate and pointlesss waste of resources.