Missing the days of No Nonsense Hifi

[Craig M.]

Airplay transfers everything as 44.1 kHz/16bit ALAC.

Do you have a reference for this? I tried to find info about Airplay transmission a year or so ago, and found nothing except a suspicion that it curtailed frequencies above 15khz. Fwiw, I found Airplay via an ATV3 and dac to be audibly different to a MBP straight into a dac, but found the MBP to sound the same whether outputting at 44.1 or 48 khz, so for me it was the Airplay transmission not the re-sampling.

 

[Craig M.]

HTH HAND!!1!!

Still making me laugh!

 

[davedotco]

Airplay transfers everything as 44.1 kHz/16bit ALAC.

Do you have a reference for this? I tried to find info about Airplay transmission a year or so ago, and found nothing except a suspicion that it curtailed frequencies above 15khz. Fwiw, I found Airplay via an ATV3 and dac to be audibly different to a MBP straight into a dac, but found the MBP to sound the same whether outputting at 44.1 or 48 khz, so for me it was the Airplay transmission not the re-sampling.

This is an interesting subject, information and miss-information abounds.

I have seen comments and articles to the effect that the output, even via Airplay remains bit perfect but I am at a loss to see how that can be the case if resampling is taking place...... :?

Similarly I have seen discussions where the 'packaging' of the data for Airplay transmission has been discussed in some detail and how this 'packaging' results in data loss...... :O

Realistically all I know is that my wired optical connection sounds better than the same equipment using Airplay which, for once, seems in accord with the audiophile viewpoint.

 

[chebby]

I have tested 'native' CD replay (from the built-in CD player) vs ALAC rip of the same CD using Airplay.

The test was as close as you can get. Same device with the same DAC and the same speakers and only a couple of seconds between comparisons (remotely switching between paused tracks on iMac iTunes and CD player in Marantz).

The results were as close as I could expect too.

Not sure I could hear any differences TBH.

Maybe it was because there were no intervening 'boxes' (like ATVs or AEXs) and no other DACs involved. Dunno. But i am happy that there was so little (if any) difference.

I am not an 'audiophile'. I don't measure the distance - to millimetre accuracy - between my ears and speakers and I don't sit in a special listening chair - with my face scrunched up in total concentration - noting the number of 'spontaneous foot taps' on a clipboard!

I don't even like the term 'audiophile' and never want to listen to music in the same room as one 🙂

I am not going to repeat the tests. Once was enough (just after getting the Marantz and AirPlay up and running a couple of years ago) and I felt like an idiot even then! Just wanted to re-assure myself that AirPlay sounded good enough to move over to it as a preferred way of listening.

YMMV and good luck to your golden ears (and tapping toes) if it does.

My last post on this thread.

 

[richardw42]

Surely were in the days of no nonsense hi Fi.

With the likes of Sonos, airplay etc we can select from our own or online library's using a phone app. I disagree about quality too. I've never had hifi sound as good as it does now.

At this moment, I am listening to the inception soundtrack from Amazon Cloudplayer using an iPad mini & headphones.

In the distant past I'd have to go to the record collection collection, find the lp, take the inner sleeve from the outer, and the vinyl from that all the while taking care. Inspect the record and give it a clean. Turn on all the equipment, cue up the record and play. I could then relax for 20 minutes and then get up and turn it over if I want to hear the whole album. Remote control, pause/skip ???

at least now we have a choice. I'll very often have a whole day listening to music, choosing from millions of tracks, doing nothing but tapping my iPad.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Surely were in the days of no nonsense hi Fi.

With the likes of Sonos, airplay etc we can select from our own or online library's using a phone app. I disagree about quality too. I've never had hifi sound as good as it does now.

At this moment, I am listening to the inception soundtrack from Amazon Cloudplayer using an iPad mini & headphones.

In the distant past I'd have to go to the record collection collection, find the lp, take the inner sleeve from the outer, and the vinyl from that all the while taking care. Inspect the record and give it a clean. Turn on all the equipment, cue up the record and play. I could then relax for 20 minutes and then get up and turn it over if I want to hear the whole album. Remote control, pause/skip ???

at least now we have a choice. I'll very often have a whole day listening to music, choosing from millions of tracks, doing nothing but tapping my iPad.

I dont see it as a faff though.

I work with computers all day, the last thing I want to do is use one to play music. I also find that when playing music with streaming/tablet is that I tend to skip around songs reather than just playing an album.

All I want my CDP to do is play CDs, its actually a DVD player but its sole job is to play a disk.

The same with vinyl, I take care with my music, sometimes I line up 3-4 albums across the front of the room as a 'playlist' then I can appreciate the artwork that goes with it, and the lyrics etc.

I dont need my amplifiers to have wireless connectivity or have to have firmware updates.

 

[richardw42]

Now we've got the choice, which is great.

Vinyl is not for me, but many others love it. And I only play CDs in the car. But on longer journeys will plug in my iPhone.

 

[the record spot]

I have spoken about my £2k budget before on other threads, mostly in reference to how I came to spend some time with ADM9s, this all happened about 18 months ago. it was nothing directly to do with your comments.

ADMs plus stands, Sonos Connect plus remote, about £2k. It was what I experienced looking for alternatives that formed the basis of my post.

And you brought up Jimmy Hughes, not me. I thought it something of a coincidence that I had spoken to him not that long ago and thought it worth mentioning, nothing more.

Like I say Dave, I just found it quite the coincidence and still do now. Moreso in fact. But this is no biggie. All part of the rough and tumble.

 

[davedotco]

I have tested 'native' CD replay (from the built-in CD player) vs ALAC rip of the same CD using Airplay.

The test was as close as you can get. Same device with the same DAC and the same speakers and only a couple of seconds between comparisons (remotely switching between paused tracks on iMac iTunes and CD player in Marantz).

The results were as close as I could expect too.

Not sure I could hear any differences TBH.

Maybe it was because there were no intervening 'boxes' (like ATVs or AEXs) and no other DACs involved. Dunno. But i am happy that there was so little (if any) difference.

I am not an 'audiophile'. I don't measure the distance - to millimetre accuracy - between my ears and speakers and I don't sit in a special listening chair - with my face scrunched up in total concentration - noting the number of 'spontaneous foot taps' on a clipboard!

I don't even like the term 'audiophile' and never want to listen to music in the same room as one 🙂

I am not going to repeat the tests. Once was enough (just after getting the Marantz and AirPlay up and running a couple of years ago) and I felt like an idiot even then! Just wanted to re-assure myself that AirPlay sounded good enough to move over to it as a preferred way of listening.

YMMV and good luck to your golden ears (and tapping toes) if it does.

My last post on this thread.

I'm not going to react to the tone of the post but it is interesting.

My AEX is a Mark 1, series 2 (if you see what I mean) with 'n' band connectivity, it woks well enough but is not up to the standard of the direct connection as noted above, not a massive difference but obvous enough.

At some point I am going to investigate this further, it is the kind of project that 'amuses' me but I shall probably need some different and maybe better equipment to do so.

 

[davedotco]

I have spoken about my £2k budget before on other threads, mostly in reference to how I came to spend some time with ADM9s, this all happened about 18 months ago. it was nothing directly to do with your comments.

ADMs plus stands, Sonos Connect plus remote, about £2k. It was what I experienced looking for alternatives that formed the basis of my post.

And you brought up Jimmy Hughes, not me. I thought it something of a coincidence that I had spoken to him not that long ago and thought it worth mentioning, nothing more.

Like I say Dave, I just found it quite the coincidence and still do now. Moreso in fact. But this is no biggie. All part of the rough and tumble.

But sufficiently big for you to call me names and, effectively a liar, on more than one occasion. I don't much like that.

Take a look at my posts here.......

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/spotify-system

This is from the 6th June, other examples are available.

And from here........

http://www.amiando.com/kjreunion.html?page=453075

An early version of the guest list for the function I mentioned.

 

[the record spot]

Surely were in the days of no nonsense hi Fi.

With the likes of Sonos, airplay etc we can select from our own or online library's using a phone app. I disagree about quality too. I've never had hifi sound as good as it does now.

At this moment, I am listening to the inception soundtrack from Amazon Cloudplayer using an iPad mini & headphones.

In the distant past I'd have to go to the record collection collection, find the lp, take the inner sleeve from the outer, and the vinyl from that all the while taking care. Inspect the record and give it a clean. Turn on all the equipment, cue up the record and play. I could then relax for 20 minutes and then get up and turn it over if I want to hear the whole album. Remote control, pause/skip ???

at least now we have a choice. I'll very often have a whole day listening to music, choosing from millions of tracks, doing nothing but tapping my iPad.

I find the reasons "against" vinyl are a tad lightweight and the pros "for" the convenience of alternative means of playback overstated at times.

I found vinyl a hassle whenever I moved home. 700 or so LPs, Half a dozen or so heavy boxes or crates to shunt them around. A major pain. That said, it's still best physical format aesthetically. The playback is either you love it or hate it. Getting up ever 20 mins is no biggie, though the recent trend for the 45rpm album is not my cup of tea (or the price that goes with them). Everything else, it's a lovely experience.

The alternative digital streams are convenient, sound good, but I found that using my iPod Touch I need it wired up otherwise the battery drops in about two hours. If I use online streaming, then I'm at the mercy of my network provider or ISP. If I stream on the move - say using Tune in Radio or Spotify - my battery on my phone will be dead in around two hours. Maybe three at a great big push. That's not the fault of Tune-in, or Spotify, but it's a "feature" of most smartphones that their battery sucks. I listen to music a lot, all day if I can, so what good this great new technology that's pretty skank after a half day running it?

So "no-nonsense" hifi? No, plenty of nonsense still Richard! Just new-tech nonsense! 🙂

 

[The_Lhc]

The alternative digital streams are convenient, sound good, but I found that using my iPod Touch I need it wired up otherwise the battery drops in about two hours. If I use online streaming, then I'm at the mercy of my network provider or ISP. If I stream on the move - say using Tune in Radio or Spotify - my battery on my phone will be dead in around two hours. Maybe three at a great big push. That's not the fault of Tune-in, or Spotify, but it's a "feature" of most smartphones that their battery sucks. I listen to music a lot, all day if I can, so what good this great new technology that's pretty skank after a half day running it?

That's a very narrow view of digital streaming though, I can listen all day long and not involve a PC or my phone for more than 5 minutes if I felt like it, with or without an internet connection.

 

[Paul.]

The alternative digital streams are convenient, sound good, but I found that using my iPod Touch I need it wired up otherwise the battery drops in about two hours. If I use online streaming, then I'm at the mercy of my network provider or ISP. If I stream on the move - say using Tune in Radio or Spotify - my battery on my phone will be dead in around two hours. Maybe three at a great big push. That's not the fault of Tune-in, or Spotify, but it's a "feature" of most smartphones that their battery sucks. I listen to music a lot, all day if I can, so what good this great new technology that's pretty skank after a half day running it?

So "no-nonsense" hifi? No, plenty of nonsense still Richard! Just new-tech nonsense! 🙂

You want battery then you have to pay for it in weight. Easy fix though.

 

[the record spot]

But sufficiently big for you to call me names and, effectively a liar, on more than one occasion. I don't much like that.

Take a look at my posts here.......

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/spotify-system

This is from the 6th June, other examples are available.

And from here........

http://www.amiando.com/kjreunion.html?page=453075

An early version of the guest list for the function I mentioned.

I called you names? I called you a liar? I commented on the fact you specifically picked - within a hair's breadth - of my post to comment back and the nature of your reply's content. It's kind of your MO from what I can gather on here. You're great at putting your opinion/experience ahead of others. You've done it on posts about speakers where you reiterated your suggestion on the same page about three posts on from a couple of others that followed yours recently and you put your own experience higher than most others.

You'll need to excuse me but I don't really care about your guest list. Or what you posted before. It's incidental. Some of us were talking about actives, for example, about five years ago on here. Others were talking about different formats and brands ages ago.

I dunno Dave; bigging up your credentials and putting down a lot of the other guys on here - either their comments, what they buy, what they like or the advice they give... but most of us are intelligent here already thanks: some are well qualified, some are long standing hobbyists, others just pop in from time to time. Some of their comments annoy you and it's not "hi-fi".

Some people do know better than others, you're right, but it's "how" they put it across. You should check out some of Barry Diament's posts on the Steve Hoffman forum; the former mastering engineer for Atlantic Records is one smart guy, but courteous with it. A very fine example in how it probably should be done.

 

[davedotco]

But sufficiently big for you to call me names and, effectively a liar, on more than one occasion. I don't much like that.

Take a look at my posts here.......

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/spotify-system

This is from the 6th June, other examples are available.

And from here........

http://www.amiando.com/kjreunion.html?page=453075

An early version of the guest list for the function I mentioned.

I called you names? I called you a liar? I commented on the fact you specifically picked - within a hair's breadth - of my post to comment back and the nature of your reply's content. It's kind of your MO from what I can gather on here. You're great at putting your opinion/experience ahead of others. You've done it on posts about speakers where you reiterated your suggestion on the same page about three posts on from a couple of others that followed yours recently and you put your own experience higher than most others.

You'll need to excuse me but I don't really care about your guest list. Or what you posted before. It's incidental. Some of us were talking about actives, for example, about five years ago on here. Others were talking about different formats and brands ages ago.

I dunno Dave; bigging up your credentials and putting down a lot of the other guys on here - either their comments, what they buy, what they like or the advice they give... but most of us are intelligent here already thanks: some are well qualified, some are long standing hobbyists, others just pop in from time to time. Some of their comments annoy you and it's not "hi-fi".

Some people do know better than others, you're right, but it's "how" they put it across. You should check out some of Barry Diament's posts on the Steve Hoffman forum; the former mastering engineer for Atlantic Records is one smart guy, but courteous with it. A very fine example in how it probably should be done.

Edit. Post removed.

 

[the record spot]

The alternative digital streams are convenient, sound good, but I found that using my iPod Touch I need it wired up otherwise the battery drops in about two hours. If I use online streaming, then I'm at the mercy of my network provider or ISP. If I stream on the move - say using Tune in Radio or Spotify - my battery on my phone will be dead in around two hours. Maybe three at a great big push. That's not the fault of Tune-in, or Spotify, but it's a "feature" of most smartphones that their battery sucks. I listen to music a lot, all day if I can, so what good this great new technology that's pretty skank after a half day running it?

That's a very narrow view of digital streaming though, I can listen all day long and not involve a PC or my phone for more than 5 minutes if I felt like it, with or without an internet connection.

I don't use a PC for any streaming LHC; I can use my Touch via the ATV3, it's if I use it independently of a wired connection it'll go in three. Spotify can drop, stick, crash. Take your pick - my phone - as I said - will last up to three hours. When the manufacturers pitch their products as being a viable means to access streaming service, then it's a fair criticism to apply. New technologies give us great benefits. Battery longevity however, isn't one of them...

 

[the record spot]

You want battery then you have to pay for it in weight. Easy fix though.

While I'll happily disagree that the £400+ I might cough up for a new Samsung or more for an Apple special should at the very least get me two days use without having to watch the last bar disappearing from view by midway through day one, this Mophie thing looks brilliant. They're doing them on heavy discount on Amazon too just now and the hefty external battery is currently sitting for the 9600mAH model at £30 from £100.

I've an Android phone (Motorla Atrix, 1st version) so this might be a handy option. Cheers Paul. 🙂 :clap:

EDIT: My error, the heavy discounts are on the models produced by Anker. They're well reviewed too by the looks of things.

 

[busb]

Anyone who listens to The Associates can't be a complete knob

 

[The_Lhc]

The alternative digital streams are convenient, sound good, but I found that using my iPod Touch I need it wired up otherwise the battery drops in about two hours. If I use online streaming, then I'm at the mercy of my network provider or ISP. If I stream on the move - say using Tune in Radio or Spotify - my battery on my phone will be dead in around two hours. Maybe three at a great big push. That's not the fault of Tune-in, or Spotify, but it's a "feature" of most smartphones that their battery sucks. I listen to music a lot, all day if I can, so what good this great new technology that's pretty skank after a half day running it?

That's a very narrow view of digital streaming though, I can listen all day long and not involve a PC or my phone for more than 5 minutes if I felt like it, with or without an internet connection.

I don't use a PC for any streaming LHC; I can use my Touch via the ATV3, it's if I use it independently of a wired connection it'll go in three. Spotify can drop, stick, crash. Take your pick - my phone - as I said - will last up to three hours. When the manufacturers pitch their products as being a viable means to access streaming service, then it's a fair criticism to apply. New technologies give us great benefits. Battery longevity however, isn't one of them...

I think you've missed my point, I can listen all day long without the reliance on anything with a battery OR a PC. Streaming from a phone as a main source of audio is just, frankly, bizarre to my mind. So inconvenient for exactly the reasons you mention and completely unnecessary.

 

[davedotco]

Anyone who listens to The Associates can't be a complete knob

We have a local pub that is, shall we say, eccentric in an old fashioned sort of way.

Real ale, real cider and perry, serious belgian beer, Private eye and Terry Pratchet on the counter for a little light reading.

The first time I visited, about 10 months ago now, the sound system was playing Joy Division, live. This I thought is cool.

The other night was a fair selection of Aztec Camera, 'tis such a small step to Billy MacKenzie.

I love my music and I love my hi-fi, they are not at all the same thing.

I don't understand why some people just can't understand that.

 

[steve_1979]

...sometimes I line up 3-4 albums across the front of the room as a 'playlist' then I can appreciate the artwork that goes with it, and the lyrics etc...

That sounds like fun. 🙂

While I love the sound quality, convienence and flexibility of digital music files they do miss out on some of the joys that physical media brings. Even more so with LP's.

 

[steve_1979]

...I love my music and I love my hi-fi, they are not at all the same thing.

I don't understand why some people just can't understand that.

You may find this thread interesting.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/are-music-and-the-hifi-equipment-two-separate-things

 

[davedotco]

...I love my music and I love my hi-fi, they are not at all the same thing.

I don't understand why some people just can't understand that.

You may find this thread interesting.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/are-music-and-the-hifi-equipment-two-separate-things

Thanks for the link, some interesting posts.

Sadly there are also far to many posts from those setting out their positions on the 'cool wall' which is what I find particularly tedious.

It has become almost a 'point of honour' to disparage serious hi-fi and stories of 'trained' musucians and 'real' music lovers listening on a portable radio (Roberts naturally) abound, I'm just surprised that the neighbour hasn't popped in to say how 'nice' it sounds from next door.

The idea that you might actually enjoy hi-fi equipment, finding out about it, how it works, what works, what doesn't and all the rest and that this enjoyment is entirely separate from the pure enjoyment of music appears difficult for some to understand.

Edit. For spelling.

 

[ISAC69]

I don't miss the day of no nonsense HiFi because I decided to continue with the old days of listening to CD's and to ignore the new era of virtual

music files , Further more I converted all my loosless files to regular CD albums . I had a short bad experience with using a DAC which tend to add artifical coloration to the sound . Maybe you can achieve good results

if you have a very expensive DAC , very good interconnects between the DAC to the PC and between the DAC to the amp , good loosless files and a PC with very low harmonic distortion ... I don't argue with that, but isn't it simplier just to insert a CD to CDP and just press PLAY .. ?

 

[The_Lhc]

I don't miss the day of no nonsense HiFi because I decided to continue with the old days of listening to CD's and to ignore the new era of virtual

music files , Further more I converted all my loosless files to regular CD albums . I had a short bad experience with using a DAC which tend to add artifical coloration to the sound .

I don't see the connection between that and streaming media, that DAC would give you the same "issue" with a CD player. That problem has nothing to do with using "music files".

but isn't it simplier just to insert a CD to CDP and just press PLAY .. ?

Not for me no, pick up the remote, add all files, press play, and I'm listening to the entire collection on shuffle or one CD or whatever I want to do. You don't have that convenience of choice, it's one album at a time for you, I hardly ever do that nowadays.