Martantz M-CR610 & Concept 20s with audioquest cable

[SiUK]

@ chebby

That about sums if up really. Good man. I seem to have been through a similar transition then ;-)

In all seriousness I completely get it though, but I do wish (yeah, that thing) the gap between audiophile separates and 'mini systems' was drastically closed. I don't see why it isn't possible at all. Marantz has partially proved this, and they've done a really good job to be sure, but this could be a first step towards something much better.

There do seem to be some 'weightier' products available, I've looked, but they are few and far between, and often overpriced for the hobbled feature set being offered - there seems to be an aversion to adding 'ordinary features' that people actually want to use in the higher priced all-in-one products, for obvious reasons. But there's a big, gaping hole in the market for high quality one or two box compactish systems (I think). Marantz may be missing a big trick here: if they designed another version ( s ) of this mini, a bigger 'brother( s )' one / two box but with superior build quality (better than the 603 even..and definitely better than the 610 :-/ ) and higher quality power supplies, DAC, CD transport, etc. and perhaps the ability to whack a single or matching pair of power amps on the end if wanted, I think it would be a game changer. Well I'd more than likely be in the queue to get one I'm sure. I get that it wouldn't ever be considered a 'true and pure' audiophile product being an all-in-one but like you I really do not care, as I believe for a lot of people if it 'fit in' and sounded truly superb it would be an 'audiophile-enough' product to them...and, like you say, who the hell cares if you are enjoying your music without tripping over elephant trunk (referencing my old Linn K400)?

 

[SiUK]

Re: Martantz M-CR610 USB file limit


(sorry for bumping this but didn't want to start a new thread for it)

For anybody who has this unit and is curious about the USB device file limit there is one apprarrently. However, it's not as clear cut as it states in the manual. In the Manual it states there is a combined 5000 folder and file limit. Before I got the Marantzs I bought 3 Toshiba 2.5" 500gb portable drives to use with them not knowing about any file limit. In fact, I simply copied over a lot of music to all three without any checking of the manual on the cdrom and just plugged them in. Worked perfectly, didn't think anything of it....until the other day when I got around to reading the manual thoroughly. That's where this file limit is given. Thing is, dawned on me that something was amiss as the USB drives currently have 15,000 + file on them in different folders and I've been browsing the contents and everything on there is listed. Hmm. Phoned Marantz and they say that it is a precaution or cautious figure due to different USB device capabilities and possible sluggishness etc. but that the folder limit may actually be 5000 due to the FAT table.. Well I've got under 2000 folders on the drives and all those files and it isn't particularly sluggish. It takes a moment to pause..not instantaneous and unpause etc. But other than that it is just fine. I was in a fluster thinking I'd have to jump in right away and get a NAS server sorted but actually I can hang back and take my time now. May be useful to someone.

Oh yes, I discovered that you can (like my portable music player) press play in the root folder of the USB drive, turn on shuffle and off it goes...excellent. Very useful indeed. Although if you manually skip tracks and there is a jpeg in the folder (I have artwork in every folder) it will display an file format error brielfy before attempting to play the next file. So finding the file doesn't bring it to a halt. Surprised it doesn't ignore the artwork though.

 

[mugam]

Hi, SiUK

I've read with great interest your opinion on new Marantz. I own M-CR603 since January 2011. And don't stop to admire its versatility and quality, and its really high quality appearance.

I understand your experiments with bi-amping and single amping. For 1 year and a half I used it in bi-amping mode (since the first day). 1,5 yeras later I decided to try single amping. And it took me only two hours to take the decision to stay in a single amp mode. The reason was the same - more monolithic, homogenous and powerful sound, slightly darker, but with less space and air. I used single-wire and jumpers on loudspeakers.

Alexander (Moscow)

 

[mugam]

I put an eye on the new model, because it has gapless playback. And my music library (FLAC format) is stored on WD MyBookLive 2Tb network storage. So now I have to cut every cue.file to play it through Marantz mediaserver option. Its not difficult, but sometimes annoying.

Don't you know does 610 support gapless playback with network storage?

And does it really have a whole plastic body, or only the front panel? It looks shining and glaring or lacqued on youtube videos. Are its sides and upper opaque (mat) or glaring?

This model is not available in Moscow yet. It will be available only next month, so I don't have opportunity to examine it thoroughly.

My current setup: M-CR603, Dynaudio DM 2/7, XLO Reference Type 5 Speaker cable, WD MyBookLive 2Tb Network Storage, 32 Gb Usb Flash in USB input.

Alexander

 

[SiUK]

Hello Alexander (Mugam)

...more monolithic, homogenous and powerful sound, slightly darker, but with less space and air....

Good to know it is not just me then! Yeah, what you describe with the 603 just about sums up my experiences with the 610 also. Like you after a short period comparing between bi-amp, and in my case, bi-wire mode, there really wasn't any contest. Turned off bi-amp mode and stuck with bi-wire. Have yet to try (as someone else suggested) it with a single run with bridging bars back in place like you have yours set up; haven't got any single run speaker cables long enough to try it be honest but happy enough to leave as is.

..does 610 support gapless playback with network storage?

Yes, it does. I have streamed flacs over a wired network from my PC to the Marantz and flacs play back gapless without any issues. And of course gapless via USB ports as well.

And does it really have a whole plastic body, or only the front panel?

Ahh, 'unfortunately' the whole unit is indeed housed in a high gloss plastic body. The top panel seems to be exactly the same as the 603 as much as I remember. Not that it makes much difference, but the side cheeks of the unit are actually plastic panels held in place by four screws. So it isn't one big moulded affair. It is not absolutely ghastly, it just doesn't look or feel as high quality as the 603. That is really the only let down.

Also, like the 603s, any external drives plugged directly into the rear or front USB ports must be formatted as FAT/FAT32. I got caught out there so that's why I mention it.

 

[mugam]

I would also add that the sound became a little bit faster and agressive than in bi-amp mode. And its a pity that Marantz could not keep the combination of luxury appearance and versatility of formats. So now they (to my opinion) lowered this product a little bit down to its hardware duplicate - Denon Ceol 7 or 8, which from the very beginning was in platic glossy body. But it had wi-fi. So you had a choice - luxury metal body without wifi, or wifi in plastic. Now no choice. Wifi and plastic. Maybe its technical matter - no wifi signal in metal body.

Looking on the official photos of 610 you are not able to see that it is plastic and glossy. I became suspicious when i didn't find in the description the phrase about whole aluminium body and its weight was designated almost 1 kg less. I wonder how does it look the silver/gold variant. But it it seems to be distributed only in Japan.

603 also is not whole moulded. Its side cheeks are held by four hexagon screws.

Thank you for your paying attention to file system in external HDD. I also had some problems, because you can't format large discs in FAT through Windows OS. So I had to find out how to do it. I've started with external USB HDD, and later I've bought WD MyBookLive and unplugged USB HDD drive as unnecessary. Substituted it with 32 Gb USB flash drive for my little son to listen to audiobooks easily, not disturbing the other sources.

 

[magnus78]

Guys,

U think the 610 is really rated at 60W rms per channel at 6ohms??

 

[mugam]

Hi, Magnum78,

All ratings are relative. This one is too. Marantz is lightly cunning. I will show on example of M-CR603 which I own. Both are the same it seems to me. You can see two measurements in the manual:

Nominal output

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 0.7 %, 8 Ω) 40 W + 40 W

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 0.7 %, 6 Ω) 50 W + 50 W THD 0,7% !!!

Effective maximum output

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 10 %, !!! 8 Ω) 50 W + 50 W

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 10 %,!!! 6 Ω) 60 W + 60 W THD 10%!!! Its a noticeable distortion level.

or Denon CEOL N7

Rated output 2-channel driving

65 W + 65 W (4 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz, T.H.D. 0.7 %) The same for Marantz 603 at 4 Ohms as its a hardware duplicate for Denon

Dynamic power 80 W + 80 W (4 Ω/ohm)

or TEAC H-CR500DNT the same class CD receiver

Output power

40 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 05%, 1Khz)

So I understand that the real power output of Marantz M-CR at 6 Ohms is 50 W, or 65 W at 4 Ohms, or 40 W at 8 Ohm.

Though it is not recommended to use 4 Ohm speakers on the back of its body, I use Dynadio DM2/7 4 Ohm bookshelves. I've got permission from technical support from Marantz-Europe for this, saying "no problems".

Alexander

 

[SiUK]

magnus78...the answer? No, not now

It really really needs better power, simple as that. But then it would need a bigger box I suppose and whilst I'd be more than happy with that pesonally I suspect that others may not be. I have actually been wondering what a pair of Proprius Power Amplifier Monoblocks would be like on either side of the 610...be nice to try before a buy. Lot of money though.

 

[davedotco]

Hi, Magnum78,

All ratings are relative. This one is too. Marantz is lightly cunning. I will show on example of M-CR603 which I own. Both are the same it seems to me. You can see two measurements in the manual:

Nominal output

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 0.7 %, 8 Ω) 40 W + 40 W

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 0.7 %, 6 Ω) 50 W + 50 W THD 0,7% !!!

Effective maximum output

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 10 %, !!! 8 Ω) 50 W + 50 W

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 10 %,!!! 6 Ω) 60 W + 60 W THD 10%!!! Its a noticeable distortion level.

or Denon CEOL N7

Rated output 2-channel driving

65 W + 65 W (4 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz, T.H.D. 0.7 %) The same for Marantz 603 at 4 Ohms as its a hardware duplicate for Denon

Dynamic power 80 W + 80 W (4 Ω/ohm)

or TEAC H-CR500DNT the same class CD receiver

Output power

40 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 05%, 1Khz)

So I understand that the real power output of Marantz M-CR at 6 Ohms is 50 W, or 65 W at 4 Ohms, or 40 W at 8 Ohm.

Though it is not recommended to use 4 Ohm speakers on the back of its body, I use Dynadio DM2/7 4 Ohm bookshelves. I've got permission from technical support from Marantz-Europe for this, saying "no problems".

Alexander

Perhaps you are missing the point.

The most important specification for the 603 (and probably the Denon too) is further down the page. It says....

Maximum power consumption 50 watts.

So unless magic is involved there is absolutely no way that the 603 can sustain any of those power ratings for more than a few fractions of a second. But you know what, it doesn't matter, well most of the time anyway.

We have been through this all before but in essence, with a music signal that 603 will only ever be required to produce a handfull of watts of continuous power as beyond that the music will already be into hard clip.

So with suitable easy to drive speakers and used at reasonable setting of the volume and bass controls all of these systems will perform just fine.

 

[magnus78]

Mugam and SiUK,

thanks for sharing. Planning to pair the 610 with Wharfedale floorstanding speaker with following requirement:

Nominal Impedance 8 Ohms Compatible

Minimum Impedance 3.0 Ohms

Recommended Amplifier Power 25-150W

I bought the 610 for S$660 in Singapore. Consider quite a good price.

 

[mugam]

Yes davedotco,

You are right I think. I've seen Marantz maximum power consumption of 50 w and had this question of power output and power consumption in mind. But I'm not a technician and studied physics only at school many years ago, so I didn't dare to comment on this. You gave the final answer.

 

[magnus78]

Somone posted video of the silver 610.

I still prefer my black one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccvqsze2RVM

 

[SiUK]

Yeah, wow, in agreement their magnus78. Silver plastic body? No thanks. It looks really tacky to me. Suppose it's a personal thing (and cultural apparently). Nope, black definitely the lesser of two weevils.

 

[drummerman]

Hi, Magnum78,

All ratings are relative. This one is too. Marantz is lightly cunning. I will show on example of M-CR603 which I own. Both are the same it seems to me. You can see two measurements in the manual:

Nominal output

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 0.7 %, 8 Ω) 40 W + 40 W

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 0.7 %, 6 Ω) 50 W + 50 W THD 0,7% !!!

Effective maximum output

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 10 %, !!! 8 Ω) 50 W + 50 W

(1 kHz, total harmonic distortion 10 %,!!! 6 Ω) 60 W + 60 W THD 10%!!! Its a noticeable distortion level.

or Denon CEOL N7

Rated output 2-channel driving

65 W + 65 W (4 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz, T.H.D. 0.7 %) The same for Marantz 603 at 4 Ohms as its a hardware duplicate for Denon

Dynamic power 80 W + 80 W (4 Ω/ohm)

or TEAC H-CR500DNT the same class CD receiver

Output power

40 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 05%, 1Khz)

So I understand that the real power output of Marantz M-CR at 6 Ohms is 50 W, or 65 W at 4 Ohms, or 40 W at 8 Ohm.

Though it is not recommended to use 4 Ohm speakers on the back of its body, I use Dynadio DM2/7 4 Ohm bookshelves. I've got permission from technical support from Marantz-Europe for this, saying "no problems".

Alexander

Perhaps you are missing the point.

The most important specification for the 603 (and probably the Denon too) is further down the page. It says....

Maximum power consumption 50 watts.

So unless magic is involved there is absolutely no way that the 603 can sustain any of those power ratings for more than a few fractions of a second. But you know what, it doesn't matter, well most of the time anyway.

We have been through this all before but in essence, with a music signal that 603 will only ever be required to produce a handfull of watts of continuous power as beyond that the music will already be into hard clip.

So with suitable easy to drive speakers and used at reasonable setting of the volume and bass controls all of these systems will perform just fine.

I'd guess that would indeed be the case if the power consumtion rating is actually accurate. Then add that even a digital amplifier is 'only' 80 odd percent efficient and quoted figures indeed start to look a little shaky.

However, I believe that these days power consumption ratings are not what they used to be and can be massaged to make things look better. Certain Brystons will probably be a case in point as are several AV receivers.

Perhaps someone here knows more about this but I agree, as long as it sounds good it is good. Care perhaps needs to be taken when choosing speakers.

Nad's new D 3020 looks interesting too and is quoted as being pretty much load stable. Not much info around at the moment and only one review I know off though.

regards

 

[SiUK]

For anyone interested, the 'Party Mode' on the 603 has been removed on the 610. I forgot to mention it a few times and it was actually a really good feature. With the 603s it enabled me to play the same piece of music in every room with a unit in it which was really good. Easy multiroom. Real shame that they decided to remove such a good feature. Anyhow, as much as I like the 610s (I'm keeping two of the 610s where they are now, in the bedrooms) the other will either be going up for sale soon or I'll keep it 'for Ron' but I'm now definitely looking elsewhere, and maybe towards a Naim UnitiQute 2 for the main system downstairs.

 

[penbat]

SiUK have you thought of adding a subwoofer to your 610 for a bit of extra ooomf ? Incidentally can you give me some pointers as to where to buy a slug load of FLACs ?

 

[magnus78]

I ever tried adding a subwoofer and overall sound did improved.

 

[SiUK]

I have been listening to Yahoo's 'Upstairs at Eric's' via the Marantz M-CR610 and the Concept 20s. Alison Moyet's voice sounds incredible on 'Midnight'. It's rich and defined and fills the soundstage between my speakers.

Oh, and just for the record, for those that have the 603 and are thinking abut this, this 610 can fast forward/skip flacs via USB. The 603 couldn't / cant. That is a mega useful update. It was bugging me that the 603 could only hop tracks. Chuffed about that.

 

[SiUK]

Had enough now. Got a big brain ache from switching cables and units and listening.

Discovered without any doubt that all of the M-CR610s basically sound the same in bi-amp mode. But also that none of them sound anywhere near as good in biamped mode compared to when they are biwired with my old AQ Crystal cable hooking them up to the speakers. In bi-amp mode they are detailed, precise like I previously said, but not 'knitted together' and the upper frequencies just don't gel together with the bass, which kind of evaporates away. Hard to explain. The music just loses something and it becomes even more apparrent with brighter music.

For anyone else, I'd wait for a review from What Hi-Fi as I'm sure they'll give it a good going over and report back without all the toing and froing.