Marantz PM6005 and Dali Zensor 3 too loud??

[LukeKngs]

I have used this pairing for years with no noticeable issues connecting my phone via aux or Bluetooth receiver. However, I have recently purchased a pro-ject primary E turntable and run into a few odd problems!

When I connect the turntable to my phono input the volume is unbearable. I can have the amp set to the lowest volume and it acts like its on 100%? I double checked and the turntable doesn't have a phono preamp so I'm not doubling the preamp.

I've taken the amp and turntable into Richer sound and we had the same issue in their demo room. I cant remember what speakers they connected up but interestingly I took it round the corner to their recommended repair man and had no issues with the amp and turntable set up? It seems the only main difference in these set ups are the speakers that were used and 2/3 set ups have caused the same issue.

I bought the project phono preamp to test and see if the phono input on the amp was broken. I connected it to a standard input but had the same issue, the volume was extreme on the lowest amp setting.

I have since bought a Moukey phono preamp so I can control the volume on the preamp. This does seem to work but the sound quality is poor, probably due to moukey being a budget option.

Just want to get some suggestions on possible solutions. I cant stick with Moukey due to the poor quality but something similar where I have a phono stage and preamp set up?

 

[Al ears]

Perhaps the cartridge is at fault?Why did Richer Sounds not replace it?

 

[LukeKngs]

I should have mentioned. While in Richer sound we tried a different amp with the project turntable and it worked fine and the staff come to the conclusion that the amp may be the issue.

 

[Al ears]

I should have mentioned. While in Richer sound we tried a different amp with the project turntable and it worked fine and the staff come to the conclusion that the amp may be the issue.

aha!

 

[gasolin]

No problem here

Try a different marantz PM6005

Try attenuators

 

[jjbomber]

I have used this pairing for years with no noticeable issues connecting my phone via aux or Bluetooth receiver. However, I have recently purchased a pro-ject primary E turntable and run into a few odd problems!

When I connect the turntable to my phono input the volume is unbearable. I can have the amp set to the lowest volume and it acts like its on 100%? I double checked and the turntable doesn't have a phono preamp so I'm not doubling the preamp.

Phono input on the amp? It is a strange one though.

 

[LukeKngs]

Phono input on the amp was the first conclusion hence trying the project phono preamp and connecting to a standard line input. But it had the same affect.

So I'm in a weird position where I need a preamp to reduce the volume?

I'll look into attenuators

 

[Al ears]

Phono input on the amp was the first conclusion hence trying the project phono preamp and connecting to a standard line input. But it had the same affect.

So I'm in a weird position where I need a preamp to reduce the volume?

I'll look into attenuators

Try the largest value attenuators you can

 

[gasolin]

Try looking at MONACOR Ila-1020 whith those you can try different attenautions

 

[nopiano]

This is ridiculous. If you’ve really connected the amp correctly there is no way it will be too loud. Don’t waste money on attenuators. The amp is faulty surely?

 

[Al ears]

This is ridiculous. If you’ve really connected the amp correctly there is no way it will be too loud. Don’t waste money on attenuators. The amp is faulty surely?

but likely out of warranty? They came out in 2014
however, yes, the amp is faulty if a line-level signal results in that sort of volume

 

[Al ears]

When you say amp is set at its lowest volume level what happens if you increase the volume?

 

[nopiano]

but likely out of warranty? They came out in 2014
however, yes, the amp is faulty if a line-level signal results in that sort of volume

Yes, I appreciate it won’t be fixed for free unless the customer bought Richer’s extended warranty, but I don’t want him wasting more money on attenuators. He’s already bought two phono stages that aren’t needed!

 

[LukeKngs]

When you say amp is set at its lowest volume level what happens if you increase the volume?

When I turn the volume dial it increases. It's not like it's stuck at a volume, it's just amplifying at crazy levels.

Yes, I appreciate it won’t be fixed for free unless the customer bought Richer’s extended warranty, but I don’t want him wasting more money on attenuators. He’s already bought two phono stages that aren’t needed!

Appreciate the concern nopiano. Luckily I'll be able to return the phono stages and get my money back but equally do not want to waste any further time or money on uneccessary fixes.

It sounds like the amp in one way or another is faulty, it's only come to light since connecting something other than a bluetooth receiver. Which leaves me two options:

1. Replace the amp - new/secondhand
2. Potentially cheaper option - buy a phono stage and preamp to use the standard line input and control/decrease the volume before it gets to the marantz

It seems very counter productive to increase the volume from the turntable with a phono stage, decrease it with the preamp to an acceptable level and then control the volume again with the marantz

EDIT:

Option 3: Attempt to get the marantz amp fixed. It does hold some sentimental value so pretty reluctant to throw it away

 

[nopiano]

It seems very counter productive to increase the volume from the turntable with a phono stage, decrease it with the preamp to an acceptable level and then control the volume again with the marantz

That was exactly my point. Two wrongs don’t make a right. The SQ will be awful and you’ll end up not wanting to use your turntable.
See if the amplifier guy will give you an estimate.

 

[Al ears]

That was exactly my point. Two wrongs don’t make a right. The SQ will be awful and you’ll end up not wanting to use your turntable.
See if the amplifier guy will give you an estimate.

Hear, hear
however I still find the issue hard to understand. If the phone works into a certain input on the amp why doesn't the turntable into the same input? Is the phone outputting a lot less than line level?
this suggests it isn't the amp surely.
what does a phone output anyway?
what happens if the turntable is connected to the Aux input?
I thing he should borrow a CD player and we how that fares.

 

[Gray]

Bit of a mysterious one.
As always, it's a case of being certain of the fault symptom.....what with Richer sometimes finding a problem??? the repair man finding no problem....and you Luke, having a problem on an amp that was previously OK???
...there will be an easy solution....there always is.

 

[Al ears]

Bit of a mysterious one.
As always, it's a case of being certain of the fault symptom.....what with Richer sometimes finding a problem??? the repair man finding no problem....and you Luke, having a problem on an amp that was previously OK???
...there will be an easy solution....there always is.

it does sound unreal doesn't it , the repairman finding no problem? So exactly how had he connected up the turntable and amp?
then he n
mentions the only difference being the speakers, this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[LukeKngs]

Everyone I speak to seems baffled with this one. If it helps I'll try and outline the scenarios as plain and simple as I can.

Scenario 1:
Project primary E turntable connected directly to marantz pm6005 phono input with Dali Zensor 3's
Outcome: Unbearable volume even at lowest. If I connect turntable to a line input then it was very quiet and flat

Scenario 2:
Richer sounds test
Project primary E turntable connected directly to marantz pm6005 phono input - unsure of the speakers they used
Outcome: Unbearable volume even at lowest

Scenario 3:
Richer sounds test 2
Project primary E turntable connected directly to a different amp phono input - unsure of the speakers or amp
Outcome: Worked fine

Scenario 4:
Repair man
Project primary E turntable connected directly to marantz pm6005 phono input - unsure of the speakers he used
Outcome: Worked fine

Scenario 5:
Project primary E turntable connected to project phono preamp connected to line input on marantz pm6005 with Dali Zensor 3's
Outcome: Unbearable volume even at lowest

Scenario 6:
Project primary E turntable connected to moukey phono preamp connected to line input on marantz pm6005 with Dali Zensor 3's
Outcome: Worked as I was able to control the volume with the moukey but sounded terrible

Scenario 4 seems odd to me as it's effectively the same as scenario 1 & 2 but worked!? I don't mind if it's broken I would just like some consistency to make the diagnosis easier.

Next steps - back to the repair man to understand how he had it set up and try again

 

[Gray]

I reckon it's no coincidence that the TT is the one constant in every scenario.
Admittedly very unlikely, but there's one thing that would cause such random symptoms - if the TT was intermittently cutting between cartridge direct and preamp out.
That unlikely scenario would be ruled out if all testers found no problem when using a different TT.
I am right to assume that no source has ever been too loud when playing via a line input on your Marantz aren't I? Or did I miss that bit?

EDIT:
Just seen no mention of built-in preamp in the WHF review of your TT....so bang goes that theory.....from unlikely to impossible

 

[nopiano]

Yes, I checked the Primary E too, and it’s a normal turntable with no preamp option.
I agree that Scenario 4 is the odd one out, but otherwise the amplifier is the obvious place to look. I’ve been trying to imagine what errors in connection could cause the symptoms and I can’t think of one - aside from it not being a Primary E but a different model that is already amplified.

Just for the heck of it, what happens when you use the CD or Aux input?

 

[jjbomber]

Try a different turntable to the Marantz phono input. If that's too loud, then it's the phono input on the amp. If not, I'm tearing my hair out!!!

 

[Al ears]

Yes, I checked the Primary E too, and it’s a normal turntable with no preamp option.
I agree that Scenario 4 is the odd one out, but otherwise the amplifier is the obvious place to look. I’ve been trying to imagine what errors in connection could cause the symptoms and I can’t think of one - aside from it not being a Primary E but a different model that is already amplified.

Just for the heck of it, what happens when you use the CD or Aux input?

see Scenario 1 .....Outcome: Unbearable volume even at lowest. If I connect turntable to a line input then it was very quiet and flat
Which would suggest it doesn't have an inbuilt preamp

 

[nopiano]

see Scenario 1 .....Outcome: Unbearable volume even at lowest. If I connect turntable to a line input then it was very quiet and flat
Which would suggest it doesn't have an inbuilt preamp

I thought I’d seen that, but then I re-read it and only saw the phono bit! Definitely the amp then!

 

[jjbomber]

Primary E phono has a switchable phono stage. It could be going through two phono stages.