6th.replicant
Well-known member
wireman:No. You both flatter yourselves. Read the thread.
Presumptuous, churlish and now rude and terse, too. Mmm, classy fella
Presumptuous, churlish and now rude and terse, too. Mmm, classy fella
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Wow, three out of the five, I'm honoured! Seeing as I haven't "attacked" anyone, it looks like you're trying to 'go to town' on me!
Where, What, Who, How?
I dont ever remember this post being such a big thing? It was moons ago i asked this question! And have purchased them now (Russ Andrews
).
Who would of thought this would of caused such a stink!
I dont ever remember this post being such a big thing? It was moons ago i asked this question! And have purchased them now (Russ Andrews
Who would of thought this would of caused such a stink!
David I don't think you are doing yourself any favours. Anytime someone agrees with Rick you always claim they have some hidden agenda because they have bought gear from him or members of something or another.
Have you ever thought that the reason that they bought gear from him,became members and agree with him is because Rick is a knowledgable and helpful guy.
From what I can gather you seem to have a similar view to Rick on this one but are siding with those that are having a go.
Are you ever going to stop having a pop at him?
As you well know I have dealt with Rick before and I am sure that he is more than able to speak for himself and doesnt need me nor any other members to speak for him.
I'm only saying this so you can maybe put yourself across in a more positive and professional manner. Nothing more.
Have you ever thought that the reason that they bought gear from him,became members and agree with him is because Rick is a knowledgable and helpful guy.
From what I can gather you seem to have a similar view to Rick on this one but are siding with those that are having a go.
Are you ever going to stop having a pop at him?
As you well know I have dealt with Rick before and I am sure that he is more than able to speak for himself and doesnt need me nor any other members to speak for him.
I'm only saying this so you can maybe put yourself across in a more positive and professional manner. Nothing more.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
You make it sound like a daily ocurrance bobby. I'm not claiming any big conspiracy here, I'm just seeing aLienRik asking a simple question and not getting a relevant answer.
I tend to support the underdog, side with the outnumbered, it's how I've always been. I see Rik here being ufairly swamped by a number of members just for asking a question - this is a forum.
People will buy from whichever dealer they choose - always have, always will. If someone chooses not to buy from me because I actually get involved in a debate, then so be it.
I appreciate for some it seems easier to have a pop at a retailer rather than a member of the public, but that doesn't stop me replying or setting things straight after people try and stir things.
I tend to support the underdog, side with the outnumbered, it's how I've always been. I see Rik here being ufairly swamped by a number of members just for asking a question - this is a forum.
People will buy from whichever dealer they choose - always have, always will. If someone chooses not to buy from me because I actually get involved in a debate, then so be it.
I appreciate for some it seems easier to have a pop at a retailer rather than a member of the public, but that doesn't stop me replying or setting things straight after people try and stir things.
I give up. It's too late and Im determined to listen to Heligoland before bed. It deserves a second chance!
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
BenL
2/ I wasn't implying anything - it was merely an observation based on 6 years of viewing many forums.
4/ Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I've been completely clear here - I have given two examples of manufacturers who recommend again specialist mains cables as it would be detremental to their equipment - there are hundreds of other manufacturers out there. I don't claim to be an expert on mains cables, and yes, you could say my overall experience of them is lacking given this has been a hobby for over 30 years, but I just feel there are more important areas to concentrate one's budget. I could understand your accusation of making money from these cables if you could actually find someone who I've recommended them to.
5/ I'm not bitter about anything. You just seem to be reading way too far into things, or you're flexing your 'defensive' muscle. I've always been open about what I dislike or I don't agree with - anyone who has e-mailed about such subjects will know that about me.
2/ I wasn't implying anything - it was merely an observation based on 6 years of viewing many forums.
4/ Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I've been completely clear here - I have given two examples of manufacturers who recommend again specialist mains cables as it would be detremental to their equipment - there are hundreds of other manufacturers out there. I don't claim to be an expert on mains cables, and yes, you could say my overall experience of them is lacking given this has been a hobby for over 30 years, but I just feel there are more important areas to concentrate one's budget. I could understand your accusation of making money from these cables if you could actually find someone who I've recommended them to.
5/ I'm not bitter about anything. You just seem to be reading way too far into things, or you're flexing your 'defensive' muscle. I've always been open about what I dislike or I don't agree with - anyone who has e-mailed about such subjects will know that about me.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
bobbyg81:I give up. It's too late and Im determined to listen to Heligoland before bed. It deserves a second chance!
Naah, it's overrated
Naah, it's overrated
BenLaw
Well-known member
This thread is now clearly a mile away from the OP! NickD2544, I'm glad you've made your purchase
- perhaps after a few weeks you'll be able to let us know your impressions
But more things have been said by David that I feel I ought to respond to, and at least this 'has the makings of a classic' - if not maybe already become one
If I could just remind you David of my contribution to the thread, and perhaps you'll realise it can only be paranoia that means you see conspiracies: (i) I have no decided view myself, I haven't done enough experimenting for me to reach a decision, (ii) I understand there are a range of views - from 'after market leads add nothing', to 'at the right price, after market leads will always be beneficial' and your rather ambivalent view in between, (iii) all these are personal opinions, and no-one should get upset by them, (iv) to describe any of these views as 'deranged' (as darkdealx did) or 'beyond reasonableness' (as wireman did) or 'biased' (as wireman did) is plainly wrong - everyone is entitled to their opinion, (v) I can see good reasons why any dealer would choose not to identify particular products they've heard which they do not rate, especially when people have already described their views as deranged and unreasonable.
Note that in none of that did I either side with Rick's view or in any way attack you David. I was attempting (others can judge if succeeding
) to be balanced, reasonable and light-hearted. Yet you feel the need to say 'Haven't you recently been made a moderator on a certain retailer's forum? Hence, your interest in this.' When I respond to this, one of your (many) responses is 'Seeing as I haven't "attacked" anyone, it looks like you're trying to 'go to town' on me!' Well it seems clear you have 'attacked' me, with no provocation, in that you have implied I am biased and partial, and my opinion motivated by something other than expressing my genuine view (agnostic as it in fact is)
You have also been completely hypocritical. You have accused me of 'going to town on you'. I'll let others judge whether this is an attack on you or me responding to your unjustifiable position. I'm sure if people feel I have been unfair they will leap to your defence, although that doesn't seem to have happened so far
You also seem to suggest there's a problem with me 'flexing [my] 'defensive' muscle' but just 17 minutes earlier you said 'I appreciate for some it seems easier to have a pop at a retailer rather than a member of the public, but that doesn't stop me replying or setting things straight after people try and stir things.' That's all I've done. And you seem to have no problem 'having a pop at' a member of the public
Unfortunately, you also seem to have problems with either counting or memory. My point 2 was a quote from alienRIK (post 533049) not you. I'm prepared to take responsibility for your error as the quotes aren't named (I'm a forum novice after all
) although some may wonder why you can't remember what you have and haven't said. So that's 2 out of 5 addressed to you, tho you may think it's quality not quantity
Again I'll leave it for others to decide, but if they consider your various contributions to the thread they may be concerned. You said 'until you try a specific power cable, with a specific product, in your home, it's impossible to know whether it makes a difference..Other systems will show worthwhile benefits, and it's for these users that it's worth the outlay.' Yet you accept that your experience is limited in the extreme - only 1 cable at home, nearly a decade ago, ie before the explosion in aftermarket cables and only a few in the office where you 'find it hard to hear differences'. You also (very fairly
) name 2 manufacturers who advise against their use. I would be interested to hear if you know of any manufacturers who make positive recommendations. I suspect you can't, tho I'm happy to be corrected.
Anyway, you've said, 'If someone on here asked me a question, however difficult or simple it is, and regardless of why they're asking that question, I'd answer it.' So I have a couple of questions for you. I'll let you decide if they're difficult or simple, but clearly you've promised to answer them.
On HiFix you sell Chord Superscreen mains cable (£58.50), Isotek Premium mains cable (£85.50), Ixos XHP425 mains cable (£52) and QED Qonduit mains cable (£45). Which do you consider to be the least effective cable? Please don't hedge your bets and say 'different ones are better in different circumstances'. A customer could easily walk in off the street looking to purchase one of these cables, and you wouldn't know their room or system intimately. It seems you may also not have even experimented with many of the cables you sell, which I imagine makes giving honest and helpful advice rather difficult.
(Given your range you can see why I've said you would be unable to say that after-market mains leads are ineffective even if you believed that, and why you might have left out the Bryston/Naim information from your first post.)
And given that you say 'In some systems and houses it'll be no difference, maybe even detremental. Other systems will show worthwhile benefits, and it's for these users that it's worth the outlay', are you therefore giving an unconditional warranty that all your sales of mains products will be sale or return?
But more things have been said by David that I feel I ought to respond to, and at least this 'has the makings of a classic' - if not maybe already become one
If I could just remind you David of my contribution to the thread, and perhaps you'll realise it can only be paranoia that means you see conspiracies: (i) I have no decided view myself, I haven't done enough experimenting for me to reach a decision, (ii) I understand there are a range of views - from 'after market leads add nothing', to 'at the right price, after market leads will always be beneficial' and your rather ambivalent view in between, (iii) all these are personal opinions, and no-one should get upset by them, (iv) to describe any of these views as 'deranged' (as darkdealx did) or 'beyond reasonableness' (as wireman did) or 'biased' (as wireman did) is plainly wrong - everyone is entitled to their opinion, (v) I can see good reasons why any dealer would choose not to identify particular products they've heard which they do not rate, especially when people have already described their views as deranged and unreasonable.
Note that in none of that did I either side with Rick's view or in any way attack you David. I was attempting (others can judge if succeeding
You have also been completely hypocritical. You have accused me of 'going to town on you'. I'll let others judge whether this is an attack on you or me responding to your unjustifiable position. I'm sure if people feel I have been unfair they will leap to your defence, although that doesn't seem to have happened so far
Unfortunately, you also seem to have problems with either counting or memory. My point 2 was a quote from alienRIK (post 533049) not you. I'm prepared to take responsibility for your error as the quotes aren't named (I'm a forum novice after all
Again I'll leave it for others to decide, but if they consider your various contributions to the thread they may be concerned. You said 'until you try a specific power cable, with a specific product, in your home, it's impossible to know whether it makes a difference..Other systems will show worthwhile benefits, and it's for these users that it's worth the outlay.' Yet you accept that your experience is limited in the extreme - only 1 cable at home, nearly a decade ago, ie before the explosion in aftermarket cables and only a few in the office where you 'find it hard to hear differences'. You also (very fairly
Anyway, you've said, 'If someone on here asked me a question, however difficult or simple it is, and regardless of why they're asking that question, I'd answer it.' So I have a couple of questions for you. I'll let you decide if they're difficult or simple, but clearly you've promised to answer them.
On HiFix you sell Chord Superscreen mains cable (£58.50), Isotek Premium mains cable (£85.50), Ixos XHP425 mains cable (£52) and QED Qonduit mains cable (£45). Which do you consider to be the least effective cable? Please don't hedge your bets and say 'different ones are better in different circumstances'. A customer could easily walk in off the street looking to purchase one of these cables, and you wouldn't know their room or system intimately. It seems you may also not have even experimented with many of the cables you sell, which I imagine makes giving honest and helpful advice rather difficult.
(Given your range you can see why I've said you would be unable to say that after-market mains leads are ineffective even if you believed that, and why you might have left out the Bryston/Naim information from your first post.)
And given that you say 'In some systems and houses it'll be no difference, maybe even detremental. Other systems will show worthwhile benefits, and it's for these users that it's worth the outlay', are you therefore giving an unconditional warranty that all your sales of mains products will be sale or return?
idc
Well-known member
Blind testing of cables, any cable including mains cables, fails to find a difference between them that is anywhere near reliable enough to say they make a difference.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
BenLaw:You said 'until you try a specific power cable, with a specific product, in your home, it's impossible to know whether it makes a difference..Other systems will show worthwhile benefits, and it's for these users that it's worth the outlay.' Yet you accept that your experience is limited in the extreme - only 1 cable at home, nearly a decade ago, ie before the explosion in aftermarket cables and only a few in the office where you 'find it hard to hear differences'.
And your point is?
The third party cable market was well and truly alive at the time I tried out the cable I did, it's just that it's grown since. But that's not going to change what I say about cables.
You also (very fairly
) name 2 manufacturers who advise against their use. I would be interested to hear if you know of any manufacturers who make positive recommendations. I suspect you can't, tho I'm happy to be corrected.
Nope, I can't, but then I don't ask manufacturers what mains cables they recommend.
On HiFix you sell Chord Superscreen mains cable (£58.50), Isotek Premium mains cable (£85.50), Ixos XHP425 mains cable (£52) and QED Qonduit mains cable (£45). Which do you consider to be the least effective cable? Please don't hedge your bets and say 'different ones are better in different circumstances'. A customer could easily walk in off the street looking to purchase one of these cables, and you wouldn't know their room or system intimately. It seems you may also not have even experimented with many of the cables you sell, which I imagine makes giving honest and helpful advice rather difficult.
Yes, it does make it difficult. I'm not going to stand in front of them an say that the cable they're holding is going to 'change their life', nor that it's not going to make any difference at all - why? Because of the words you've quoted me on in your question.
(Given your range you can see why I've said you would be unable to say that after-market mains leads are ineffective even if you believed that, and why you might have left out the Bryston/Naim information from your first post.)
As I've already said many times, the cable I borrowed DID make a difference to my system - it's just that I didn't like everything it was doing. There's no reason I 'left out the Bryston/Naim info' from my first post - it's just you trying to read into things to much.
And given that you say 'In some systems and houses it'll be no difference, maybe even detremental. Other systems will show worthwhile benefits, and it's for these users that it's worth the outlay', are you therefore giving an unconditional warranty that all your sales of mains products will be sale or return?
Mail order, it's law. In store, they're free to loan a demo cable.
That's all you're getting from me. I've answered plenty of your questions in this thread when asked, unlike some. I always seem to get drawn into these sorts of discussions from a certain retailer's customers - the last one was pointless, but he was intelligent enough to know that I wouldn't back down, and used that to draw me out. Unfortunately, you're not up to his standard.
Farewell to this thread.
And your point is?
The third party cable market was well and truly alive at the time I tried out the cable I did, it's just that it's grown since. But that's not going to change what I say about cables.
You also (very fairly
Nope, I can't, but then I don't ask manufacturers what mains cables they recommend.
On HiFix you sell Chord Superscreen mains cable (£58.50), Isotek Premium mains cable (£85.50), Ixos XHP425 mains cable (£52) and QED Qonduit mains cable (£45). Which do you consider to be the least effective cable? Please don't hedge your bets and say 'different ones are better in different circumstances'. A customer could easily walk in off the street looking to purchase one of these cables, and you wouldn't know their room or system intimately. It seems you may also not have even experimented with many of the cables you sell, which I imagine makes giving honest and helpful advice rather difficult.
Yes, it does make it difficult. I'm not going to stand in front of them an say that the cable they're holding is going to 'change their life', nor that it's not going to make any difference at all - why? Because of the words you've quoted me on in your question.
(Given your range you can see why I've said you would be unable to say that after-market mains leads are ineffective even if you believed that, and why you might have left out the Bryston/Naim information from your first post.)
As I've already said many times, the cable I borrowed DID make a difference to my system - it's just that I didn't like everything it was doing. There's no reason I 'left out the Bryston/Naim info' from my first post - it's just you trying to read into things to much.
And given that you say 'In some systems and houses it'll be no difference, maybe even detremental. Other systems will show worthwhile benefits, and it's for these users that it's worth the outlay', are you therefore giving an unconditional warranty that all your sales of mains products will be sale or return?
Mail order, it's law. In store, they're free to loan a demo cable.
That's all you're getting from me. I've answered plenty of your questions in this thread when asked, unlike some. I always seem to get drawn into these sorts of discussions from a certain retailer's customers - the last one was pointless, but he was intelligent enough to know that I wouldn't back down, and used that to draw me out. Unfortunately, you're not up to his standard.
Farewell to this thread.
BenLaw
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi: I've answered plenty of your questions in this thread when asked, unlike some.
I've only asked you two questions and you didn't answer either of them properly. In particular, you didn't answer the question on (your) specific products - proving my suggestion as to why other retailers might not want to.
FrankHarveyHiFi:I always seem to get drawn into these sorts of discussions from a certain retailer's customers
Yes you do, because you start the argument and make it personal with your bizarre fixation
FrankHarveyHiFi: The last one was pointless, but he was intelligent enough to know that I wouldn't back down, and used that to draw me out. Unfortunately, you're not up to his standard. Farewell to this thread.
Sorry to disappoint you, devastated obviously
Au revoir
I've only asked you two questions and you didn't answer either of them properly. In particular, you didn't answer the question on (your) specific products - proving my suggestion as to why other retailers might not want to.
FrankHarveyHiFi:I always seem to get drawn into these sorts of discussions from a certain retailer's customers
Yes you do, because you start the argument and make it personal with your bizarre fixation
FrankHarveyHiFi: The last one was pointless, but he was intelligent enough to know that I wouldn't back down, and used that to draw me out. Unfortunately, you're not up to his standard. Farewell to this thread.
Sorry to disappoint you, devastated obviously
Hi Guys
I have the following equipment:
Yamaha RXV-1900 Receiver
Epos M Subwoofer
Sony KDL-40HX723 TV
Sony BDPS-790 Blu-Ray Player
Sony Playstation 4
Soon to buy the Sony HAP-Z1ES Music Server £2000
Pro-Ject Xpression Mk3 Turntable
Now i want to upgrade the mains cables on the AV amp, Subwoofer and TV mainly, so do i just buy Clearer Audio or Merlin cables or buy a 6 way conditioner etc etc. I know alot about interconnects and i use QED Reference Signature cables however i know jack when it comes to mains cables so i appreciate any advice.
Regards
Paul Carver
I have the following equipment:
Yamaha RXV-1900 Receiver
Epos M Subwoofer
Sony KDL-40HX723 TV
Sony BDPS-790 Blu-Ray Player
Sony Playstation 4
Soon to buy the Sony HAP-Z1ES Music Server £2000
Pro-Ject Xpression Mk3 Turntable
Now i want to upgrade the mains cables on the AV amp, Subwoofer and TV mainly, so do i just buy Clearer Audio or Merlin cables or buy a 6 way conditioner etc etc. I know alot about interconnects and i use QED Reference Signature cables however i know jack when it comes to mains cables so i appreciate any advice.
Regards
Paul Carver
abacus
Well-known member
This is an old thread; however if you do a search on WHF you will find many later threads on the subject.
To answer your question; unless they are damaged, stick with the cables you have as changing them will make absolutely no difference to the sound.
An anti-surge block is always good for reducing spikes, and a good quality 6 way one can be picked up for about £20, however if you pay more you will usually get a warrantee so that if the unit fails to protect your equipment you will be compensated for it. (Up to a limit)
If you still wish to change cables, make sure you get them on a sale or return basis, as that way you can get a full refund when you find they make no difference.
Hope this helps
Bill
To answer your question; unless they are damaged, stick with the cables you have as changing them will make absolutely no difference to the sound.
An anti-surge block is always good for reducing spikes, and a good quality 6 way one can be picked up for about £20, however if you pay more you will usually get a warrantee so that if the unit fails to protect your equipment you will be compensated for it. (Up to a limit)
If you still wish to change cables, make sure you get them on a sale or return basis, as that way you can get a full refund when you find they make no difference.
Hope this helps
Bill
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