Mains leads and Power block?

[wireman]

Grottyash:wireman, no disrespect, but if Rick is banging on, so are you and the others. There'll be many who will agree with him and many who will agree with you, so why not agree to differ and leave it there?
If you read my post Grottyash, I'm not disagreeing with Rick at all - I very much agree with him in that his approach does sometimes work, but sometimes it doesn't. I use both approaches, in the same room on two very different systems, and both work... that's all. Ricks experience leans very much in favour of not using any special cables or filters, and he implies quite heavily in all his replies to others in very different circumstances that different cables won't work for anyone. I'm simply saying that all views and experiences are valid, both approaches can work and sometimes not, and we should all keep an open mind and try these things for ourselves. I certainly hope there isn't any "bad blood", is there Rick?

 

[Anonymous]

My objection was to this section of your remarks:

"I don't think anyone here doubts your own personal preferences or expertise, but to continually bang-on that your particular solution to this particular area of hi-fi and AV will prove a panacea for everyone else too is in my opinion beyond reasonableness. "

I didn't intend to cause you in particular any offence, more pointing out that, in the grand scheme of things, is it really worth so much argument?

 

[wireman]

If that comment caused offence, I apologise unreservedly.

I'd prefer to call this a healthy discussion rather than an argument. If we don't debate these things, how will we ever learn that someone elses approach might be worth trying ourselves?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, agreed.

 

[aliEnRIK]

MUSICRAFT:
Hi aliEnRIK

I take it you are happy with your chosen supporting mains related components so therefore i hope you will continue to enjoy them for many years to come.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

If you cant even name any, I can only assume youve never tried any.........

 

[The_Lhc]

wireman:If that comment caused offence, I apologise unreservedly.

I'd prefer to call this a healthy discussion rather than an argument. If we don't debate these things, how will we ever learn that someone elses approach might be worth trying ourselves?

Wireman, if I've learned anything during my time here (and I haven't), it's that seemingly innocuous comments can be read by other people as hugely offensive.

For what it's worth I didn't think there wasn't anything offensive in your comment.

I couldn't tell you if that's a good thing or not however...

 

[BenLaw]

MUSICRAFT:

At the moment i am happy to use Wilkinsons Stores extension blocks and standard mains cables becuase i've not noticed negative effects on performance with these here in the shop, elsewhere in Derbyshire or in many other parts of the country. There are also other members of the Forum happily using these components who (i hate to state the obvious) are living in different parts of the country and with different components.

With the greatest of respect (as fowler has already kindly pointed out) i don't benefit from recommending the use of standard mains cables and Wilkinsons Stores extension blocks. I feel credit where it is due regardless price.

Hi Rick

So how much are the dividends this year on those Wilkinsons shares you own?

I don't think it's right to say that Rick 'bangs on' about his opinion on mains cables etc, he simply puts his own experienced view into the debate. To say it is 'beyond reasonable' may not be offensive, but it is massively overstating the position: it is clearly a reasonable - and justifiable - opinion that he has.And if people choose to follow it they certainly can't lose out financially.

I am a very satisfied customer of Rick's and he has consistently given the same opinion. And sometimes I've chosen to ignore it! I like to try for myself and see what works for me. I'm sure he takes no offence by that, and nor should anyone else, on either side. I'd say it's far better that he gives his honest opinion than have all dealers telling you you just have to have the latest mains equipment costing hundreds or thousands of pounds.

 

[Frank Harvey]

BenLaw:I'd say it's far better that he gives his honest opinion than have all dealers telling you you just have to have the latest mains equipment costing hundreds or thousands of pounds.
No dealer on here does.

 

[BenLaw]

Hi David,

not suggesting that you or anyone else was - I have read the thread. Perhaps in the context of a rather tetchy thread using the word 'all' was ill-judged, but was just meant to emphasise the point

It's just I have come across, and I'm sure you're aware of, dealers who do do this sort of thing.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Agreed - I wasn't being funny about it, just saying

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:MUSICRAFT:
Hi aliEnRIK

I take it you are happy with your chosen supporting mains related components so therefore i hope you will continue to enjoy them for many years to come.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

If you cant even name any, I can only assume youve never tried any.........

Oh your'e probably right. He's worked in the hifi industry for over
20 years and has probably had more experience of hifi components and
accessories than most on here. Im pretty sure in all that time he has
never tested any mains lead whatsoever.

Or maybe he has
tried them, found that for him they didn't work and passes on his
experiences.And maybe he doesn't feel the need to name specific brands
because that may offfend certain forum members who have said products.
Or maybe he has heard so many he can't be bothered to name them.

Anyway I need a braided cable for my SNES. I want one that'll make Mario Bros look like Call of Duty.

Anyone have any recommendations?

 

[Frank Harvey]

bobbyg81:Anyway I need a braided cable for my SNES. I want one that'll make Mario Bros look like Call of Duty.
Anyone have any recommendations?
I bet Russ Andrews can help you with that.

 

[wireman]

BenLaw:I don't think it's right to say that Rick 'bangs on' about his opinion on mains cables etc, he simply puts his own experienced view into the debate. To say it is 'beyond reasonable' may not be offensive, but it is massively overstating the position: it is clearly a reasonable - and justifiable - opinion that he has... ...I'd say it's far better that he gives his honest opinion than have all dealers telling you you just have to have the latest mains equipment costing hundreds or thousands of pounds.
I really don't want to stir this discussion any further than perhaps I have already (unwittingly) done. But I thought a factual summary might be helpful:

An innocent question is asked by darkdealx: "Is anybody able to kindly tell me what is a good quality mains cable to use on a PS3 please????"

Dealer Audio Affair replies: "...there really isn't any substitute for borrowing some cables and giving them a try first - the benefits can vary considerably..."

Dealer Frank Harvey Hi-Fi suggests: "...until you try a specific power cable, with a specific product, in your home, it's impossible to know whether it makes a difference..."

And Dealer Musicraft simply states: "The ideal mains cable to use with the PS3 is the one supplied.", and "the mains leads supplied with your components will also give optimum results."

Notice the difference? Musicrafts response isn't "you might like to try" or "in my experience I've found that this works well for me", it's simply stated as fact to the exclusion of other possibilites, and it prompted a fairly vigorous retort from darkdealx (far more offensive than anything I may have said).

All I'm asking for is a little bit of balance... and a response regarding AliEnRIK's early question to Rick which was "May I ask which cables you've tried?". I'd really, genuinely, seriously be interested too. I might learn something.

 

[JohnnyV111]

Anyway I need a braided cable for my SNES. I want one that'll make Mario Bros look like Call of Duty.

Anyone have any recommendations?

In order for a retrospective games console running a "passive" or "fun" game to replicate the experience of a modern console playing an "aggressive" game in a theatre of war setting, the console must be adapted to accept the input from a high current (16A) IEC. The cable must also have a moulded type plug - remove this and insert directly into the wall, thus bypassing any fusing. Cables by Nordost and Black Rhodium and thought to best at letting 1990's type mode 7 graphics "breathe" to include polygons containing complex texture maps, but some experts believe any cable in flame red or stealth camo will function just as well, although this theory has yet to be proved in ABX testing.

 

[BenLaw]

wireman:

An innocent question is asked by darkdealx: "Is anybody able to kindly tell me what is a good quality mains cable to use on a PS3 please????"

Dealer Audio Affair replies: "...there really isn't any substitute for borrowing some cables and giving them a try first - the benefits can vary considerably..."

Dealer Frank Harvey Hi-Fi suggests: "...until you try a specific power cable, with a specific product, in your home, it's impossible to know whether it makes a difference..."

And Dealer Musicraft simply states: "The ideal mains cable to use with the PS3 is the one supplied.", and "the mains leads supplied with your components will also give optimum results."

Notice the difference? Musicrafts response isn't "you might like to try" or "in my experience I've found that this works well for me", it's simply stated as fact to the exclusion of other possibilites, and it prompted a fairly vigorous retort from darkdealx (far more offensive than anything I may have said).

All I'm asking for is a little bit of balance... and a response regarding AliEnRIK's early question to Rick which was "May I ask which cables you've tried?". I'd really, genuinely, seriously be interested too. I might learn something.

Hi wireman

I get the feeling I'm getting sucked into the stirring, but I guess I have to do something to pass the time

to answer your Q, I'm not sure I do notice the difference in the answers given, other than semantically. If Rick had added the apparently obligatory 'IMO' or 'IME' you would have an answer couched in the same terms, albeit a decisive view, rather than an indecisive one. I think most people would understand without the acronyms that any posts by Rick are on the basis of his experience, and are his opinions rather than scientific fact.

On the other hand, at least Rick has a clear and defined view. He also backs it with evidence - in his shop, he notices no difference. Customers of his and other forum users in many different parts of the country have similar experiences. Take into account that I'm an agnostic in the debate and do have a number of mains products myself. Clearly there are 2 sides to the debate - I've been told an account of a mains lead distributor showing off their latest product, getting distracted, then proclaiming the quality of their product and the difference in SQ, whilst the product remained happily in the box.... On the other side, I've had certain products highly recommended to me by people I trust, who hear a genuine difference, and I can be willing to act on this recommendation.

The point is fairly made that Rick's opinion (based on his experience) means he has nothing to gain - therefore you can trust that as a genuinely held opinion (which you or I or anyone is free to ignore, at our own expense). Conversely, no dealer who stocks mains products, bass traps or anything you consider your personal snake oil is going to say they don't work. It makes it that much harder to assess the genuineness of the expressed opinion. (Again, no personal slights intended

)

As for AliEnRIK's question, I think bobbyg has probably hit on the right answer. Singling out particular products for implicit criticism is not going to improve the debate, especially when darkdealx has already gone a bit far in response to an innocuous comment. And how happy is AliEnRIK going to be if Rick says, 'Well amongst other things I've tested Atlas Titan and Ascent. Isotek Sigmas and I thought they added nothing / resulted in a loss of SQ'?

 

[wireman]

BenLaw:As for AliEnRIK's question, I think bobbyg has probably hit on the right answer. Singling out particular products for implicit criticism is not going to improve the debate,
It's not a question of criticism - of either people or products. It's a question of trying to better understand Ricks expertise and his point of view.

 

[Anonymous]

What a strange thing to say. I presume that applies to the other dealers whom you quote, though I note you appear to have made a snap value judgement about one of them. Honestly, wireman, I begin to have my doubts! ( that last bit said jocularly, not seriously, no intention to offend)

Does this matter? One person gave an honest opinion, and suddenly a couple of people are up in arms and trying everything possible to decry that opinion.

The Ashes series starts in two days time. Let's start debating something serious, not something as unimportant as mains leads.

 

[wireman]

Oh for goodness sake! Why does everybody assume there's a hidden agenda? BenLaw clearly has the advantage of knowing Rick personally - a lot of us don't. It would be really nice if Rick would just provide a little background as to how he arrived at his beliefs - not because we want to have a pop at him, but because I'm genuinely interested. Is that really too much to ask? And just for the record I DON'T DISAGREE WITH RICK! Okay? Is that clear, or open to misinterpretation... again?

 

[Anonymous]

Come on, wireman. Do you not want Frank Harvey and Audio Affair to provide the same information? In fact, what about all the other posters?

Picking on one only shows bias, whether intentional or not.

I'll come clean. I only commented on this thread because the "innocent" darkdealx posted an offensive reply to Rick's first comment. I am totally ambivalent about mains leads, I'm just sticking up for someone who seems to be in the firing line for (to me) no readily discernible reason.

And on that note, I'll leave you to it.

 

[BenLaw]

Grottyash:

Come on, wireman. Do you not want Frank Harvey and Audio Affair to provide the same information? In fact, what about all the other posters?

Fair point. And if I were Rick (for the conspiracy theorists, I'm not

) I wouldn't answer the question - for any dealer worth his salt to offer an opinion one way or the other (or ambivalence in between) they will have listened to a large number of mains products (etc), from the cheap to the high end. To give a list adds nothing, risks offending people who are touchy on the subject and most importantly (I suspect this is the point of AlienRIK's question) allows people to see a product not on the list and go 'aha! You haven't listened to xxxx, if you had done you'd hear how great it is, you've only reached your opinion because you're ignorant'. So what's in it for Rick in answering? As I've said before, if you follow his advice, you can't lose financially. If, like AlienRIK, you choose to spend money on it, you can hear a difference and you're happy then great

I'm just sticking up for someone who seems to be in the firing line for (to me) no readily discernible reason.

Ditto.

And on more important matters, England to win 2-1, including a win in Brisbane - seriously

 

[chebby]

Never mind all that.

I am more interested in knowing why all these clever manufacturers (from giant corporations to small specialist companies) have all used such bad mains cable that an entire cottage industry has grown up to rectify their collective ignorance.

Odd that they all make such great, innovative, high quality products and yet all have this blind-spot in their competency when it comes to the very basics, like getting electricity into their equipment from a wall socket!

If none of them can be trusted to select the correct type and grade of cable for something as simple as a mains lead, then what can we trust them to do properly?

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
Never mind all that.

I am more interested in knowing why all these clever manufacturers (from giant corporations to small specialist companies) have all used such bad mains cable that an entire cottage industry has grown up to rectify their collective ignorance.

Odd that they all make such great, innovative, high quality products and yet all have this blind-spot in their competency when it comes to the very basics, like getting electricity into their equipment from a wall socket!

my thoughts exactly, hence my thread last night asking who'd choose what brand, do people really believe that russ abbot andrews knows more about the workings of an electrical component than the likes of sony.....

 

[wireman]

Grottyash: Come on, wireman. Do you not want Frank Harvey and Audio Affair to provide the same information? In fact, what about all the other posters?

Picking on one only shows bias, whether intentional or not.
Because Rick's the only Dealer posting biased views? No, I'm sorry, that knife slid too easily into Ricks back.

Grottyash:I'm just sticking up for someone who seems to be in the firing line for (to me) no readily discernible reason.

And on that note, I'll leave you to it.
Clearly Rick has to ask his Customers to register here on the What Hi-fi forum to defend a position he wasn't really being asked to defend, just explain a little. So lets just call it quits and talk about the weather instead. And on that note, seeing as it doesn't look like any of us are going to get an intelligent answer to the simple question posed, I'll leave you to it too.

 

[Anonymous]

rick of musicraft has said many times on here that over the years, and in many different places, whenever he has tried an aftermarket mains cable it has either had no affect or a detrimental affect on performance..

in his line of work it would be easy for him to tell his customers the opposite and profit from selling them something they dont need, the fact that he doesnt do that tells me he's a person of integrity, and reinforces my belief, based on my own logic, that expensive mains cables are not worth buying..

 

[BenLaw]

Maxflinn - all is revealed from the cryptic hypothetical thread

wireman:Grottyash: Come on, wireman. Do you not want Frank Harvey and Audio Affair to provide the same information? In fact, what about all the other posters?

Picking on one only shows bias, whether intentional or not.
Because Rick's the only Dealer posting biased views? No, I'm sorry, that knife slid too easily into Ricks back.

You're confusing bias with a clear and definite opinion. He can't be biased if his view is after-market mains cables add nothing. As I said in an earlier post, the only risk of bias (subconscious or conscious) can come from those with a vested interest in this - not me or you or a dealer not advocating sales, but those who have the kit to sell.

Grottyash:I'm just sticking up for someone who seems to be in the firing line for (to me) no readily discernible reason.

And on that note, I'll leave you to it.
Clearly Rick has to ask his Customers to register here on the What Hi-fi forum to defend a position he wasn't really being asked to defend, just explain a little.

If that's aimed at me, you're wrong actually

I've been on the forum (watching rather than posting) for ages but like an idiot I had my username as my email address (Ben Lawrence etc if you want to check

) and I didn't want that, so when I found a topic I wanted to post on I re-registered, hence when I registered and the immediacy of the posts. Looks like I managed to step into an argument first time round....

Any advance on 2-1 to England??