Mains cable extentions

[CnoEvil]

None of those links address anything in my post.

If all this was nonsense, the people that I linked to would not have heard the worthwhile improvements after the work.

If you do a quick search on whether Conditioners may strangle dynamics, you will find almost every competent brand mentions the measures they take to mitigate the problem.

If you read the comments and links about Earthing, you will see that it isn't about right or wrong, but levels of optimization, and how far you are prepared to go.

Since you have all this figured out, and are not prepared to experiment, there is little point in more fruitless debate.

:cheers:

Cno

 

[Native_bon]

None of those links address anything in my post.

If all this was nonsense, the people that I linked to would not have heard the worthwhile improvements after the work.

If you do a quick search on whether Conditioners may strangle dynamics, you will find almost every competent brand mentions the measures they take to mitigate the problem.

If you read the comments and links about Earthing, you will see that it isn't about right or wrong, but levels of optimization, and how far you are prepared to go.

Since you have all this figured out, and are not prepared to experiment, there is little point in more fruitless debate.

:cheers:

Cno

Very well said Cno!!

 

[Reggie Mental]

None of those links address anything in my post.

If all this was nonsense, the people that I linked to would not have heard the worthwhile improvements after the work.

If you do a quick search on whether Conditioners may strangle dynamics, you will find almost every competent brand mentions the measures they take to mitigate the problem.

If you read the comments and links about Earthing, you will see that it isn't about right or wrong, but levels of optimization, and how far you are prepared to go.

Since you have all this figured out, and are not prepared to experiment, there is little point in more fruitless debate.

:cheers:

Cno

I agree, if you can't or won't understand it is pointless.

 

[CnoEvil]

I agree, if you can't or won't understand it is pointless.

Exactly.

 

[Reggie Mental]

So you are content with not understanding.

 

[Covenanter]

None of those links address anything in my post.

If all this was nonsense, the people that I linked to would not have heard the worthwhile improvements after the work.

If you do a quick search on whether Conditioners may strangle dynamics, you will find almost every competent brand mentions the measures they take to mitigate the problem.

If you read the comments and links about Earthing, you will see that it isn't about right or wrong, but levels of optimization, and how far you are prepared to go.

Since you have all this figured out, and are not prepared to experiment, there is little point in more fruitless debate.

:cheers:

Cno

The key phrase here is "would not have heard". This is a perception and should more accurately be "would not have thought they heard". There are a group of people who post on this CB who believe that what they hear is objective truth even when that flies in the face of science. They are unwilling to accept that their ears can deceive them and that there are well-known psychological effects that can lead to this deception. (By ears I mean the whole hearing system including the brain.)

I'd be willing to bet that if I were to sit down with a "believer" and listen to some of these things they would hear an improvement and I wouldn't. Who would be right? If I accept the argument that my ears can't deceive me then there is no effect but then I'd have to accept that their ears can't deceive them and there is an effect.

The way to solve this is to undertake blind tests which cut out the psychological factors.

Chris

 

[CnoEvil]

The key phrase here is "would not have heard". This is a perception and should more accurately be "would not have thought they heard". There are a group of people who post on this CB who believe that what they hear is objective truth even when that flies in the face of science. They are unwilling to accept that their ears can deceive them and that there are well-known psychological effects that can lead to this deception. (By ears I mean the whole hearing system including the brain.)

I'd be willing to bet that if I were to sit down with a "believer" and listen to some of these things they would hear an improvement and I wouldn't. Who would be right? If I accept the argument that my ears can't deceive me then there is no effect but then I'd have to accept that their ears can't deceive them and there is an effect.

The way to solve this is to undertake blind tests which cut out the psychological factors.

Chris

I know one thing for sure, you won't hear a difference if you don't try it.......at least the people involved are reporting their findings and not regurgitating the opinions of someone else.

I base my opinion on what I read (both sides of debate) and back that up with what I personally try.......I do not take an arrogant or dogmatic approach, but suggest that people should always experiment for themselves.

I'm inclined to put more faith in those who seek to uncover the truth, than those who insist that they've found it.

I'm now out of this

Cno

 

[Reggie Mental]

We know how electricity works and can readily demonstrate it. It's entirely predictable that a method of mains connection will have no effect on a hifi amplifier. It is neither exploring the unknown or a faith position as you appear to suggest. I would put your "experiments" on a par with spraying a car a different colour to see if it accelerates better.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Surely a highly polished car accelerates faster than a dirty one because it's more slippy through the air?

 

[pauln]

I'm inclined to put more faith in those who seek to uncover the truth, than those who insist that they've found it.

Really? Surely those that have found the truth must at one time have sought to uncover it?

I've listened to stuff, I've discussed it with some of the sound engineers I've worked with in theatre, live music and TV over the last 25 years, I've read forums, technical reports and brushed up on my 'O' level physics. I think I've uncovered the truth.

There is no magic, just physics and your brain working together to give you a listening experience.

What irks me most is the thought that there are people agonising over what their next upgrade should be; often spending more money than they can really afford and still not being satisfied because of the constant niggling feeling that there is something better around the corner.

Buy the best speakers you can afford and an amp powerful enough to drive them that's built by a reputable company that will service it over the years to come, sort your listening room out and relax. If you are wealthy enough to wear designer clothes and jewellry then yes, designer hifi might be for you, it might look great in your lounge and it might impress your friends - or it might not.

 

[andyjm]

I know one thing for sure, you won't hear a difference if you don't try it.......at least the people involved are reporting their findings and not regurgitating the opinions of someone else.

I base my opinion on what I read (both sides of debate) and back that up with what I personally try.......I do not take an arrogant or dogmatic approach, but suggest that people should always experiment for themselves.

I'm inclined to put more faith in those who seek to uncover the truth, than those who insist that they've found it.

I'm now out of this

Cno

While I understand Cno's plight, it goes to illustrate one of the challenges of living in a world where uninformed comment is given the same weight as expert opinion. There is no debate about mains cables by those who understand the physics behind what is going on, the only debate is created by those who don't understand or those with a financial axe to grind.

I would wager that those who are convinced that their mains cable has made a difference don't understand how a power supply works. Those that do are rightly very skeptical about the claims made for cables and conditioners.

To be clear, there are circumstances that a mains cable could make a difference, but those are extreme and very unlikely to be found in a normal domestic setup.

 

[CnoEvil]

There is no debate about mains cables.....

I agree.

Just to clarify: This has been a debate about the benefit (or not) of Conditioning, Regeneration and Balanced Mains Transformers, as well as discussing whether a dedicated ring main and attention to Earthing has a beneficial effect.

I thought feeding one's system with unpoluted, stable power was best practice and worth pursuing.

I'm now off (again).

 

[Reggie Mental]

A quality amplifier will have enough capacitive filtering to deal with all waveform aberrations present in the UK, even enough to deal with the appalling hash caused by those wretched AM radio destroyers called Homeplugs. Is that what you mean by polluted?

There isn't really any factual or technical debate about conditioners etc. at all.

 

[lpv]

Why would you worry about last 1 meter of cable and not worry about 100 meters to your socket? oke:

 

[Covenanter]

I know one thing for sure, you won't hear a difference if you don't try it.......at least the people involved are reporting their findings and not regurgitating the opinions of someone else.

I base my opinion on what I read (both sides of debate) and back that up with what I personally try.......I do not take an arrogant or dogmatic approach, but suggest that people should always experiment for themselves.

I'm inclined to put more faith in those who seek to uncover the truth, than those who insist that they've found it.

I'm now out of this

Cno

While I understand Cno's plight, it goes to illustrate one of the challenges of living in a world where uninformed comment is given the same weight as expert opinion. There is no debate about mains cables by those who understand the physics behind what is going on, the only debate is created by those who don't understand or those with a financial axe to grind.

I would wager that those who are convinced that their mains cable has made a difference don't understand how a power supply works. Those that do are rightly very skeptical about the claims made for cables and conditioners.

To be clear, there are circumstances that a mains cable could make a difference, but those are extreme and very unlikely to be found in a normal domestic setup.

Yep it's that kind of thing that led to the current measles epedemic, unscientific mumbo jumbo promoted by an unscrupulous press.

Chris

 

[andrew_cawood]

I was interested by this thread since I've had a problem with my Graham Slee Novo headphone amplifier since installing homeplugs. There's a really annoying and loud buzzing between tracks especially with lower impedance headphones which I've confirmed as a homeplug problem. Since the homeplugs are necessary I'd settled on selling the amp, but after reading this I thought I'd try the Tacima - for £29 on Amazon I figure I didn't have much to lose.

It's currently in transit but I'll let you know how it goes - I've got no agenda and it either works on a very real problem or it doesn't. While not a conclusive test, it may give a little insight to others considering it.

 

[CnoEvil]

I was interested by this thread since I've had a problem with my Graham Slee Novo headphone amplifier since installing homeplugs. There's a really annoying and loud buzzing between tracks especially with lower impedance headphones which I've confirmed as a homeplug problem. Since the homeplugs are necessary I'd settled on selling the amp, but after reading this I thought I'd try the Tacima - for £29 on Amazon I figure I didn't have much to lose.

It's currently in transit but I'll let you know how it goes - I've got no agenda and it either works on a very real problem or it doesn't. While not a conclusive test, it may give a little insight to others considering it.

It's certainly worth a shot.

I believe Graham Slee have their own forum, where useful advice might be forthcoming (if you haven't already been down that route).

Edit. This might help: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/do-homeplugs-cause-interference-with-hi-fi

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I don't worry at all....and as for my imagination...........

ATM Everything is plugged directly into the wall.

Hi CnE

Atm i am worried to hear that there is no after market mains product between the mains plugs of your components and the wall

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I thought of you when I said that.

Hi CnE

Clearly clearer thinking

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnE

Clearly clearer thinking

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Clearly!........I never like to be (totally) predictable. :shifty:

 

[John Duncan]

Yep it's that kind of thing that led to the current measles epedemic, unscientific mumbo jumbo promoted by an unscrupulous press.

Chris

Whoa. You're comparing the MMR scare with mains cables?

 

[BenLaw]

Yep it's that kind of thing that led to the current measles epedemic, unscientific mumbo jumbo promoted by an unscrupulous press.

Chris

Whoa. You're comparing the MMR scare with mains cables?

In concept but not necessarily in scale, keep up JD.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yep it's that kind of thing that led to the current measles epedemic, unscientific mumbo jumbo promoted by an unscrupulous press.

Chris

Whoa. You're comparing the MMR scare with mains cables?

Is this forum part of said unscrupulous press? If so, do I need vaccinated? :twisted:

 

[BenLaw]

Yep it's that kind of thing that led to the current measles epedemic, unscientific mumbo jumbo promoted by an unscrupulous press.

Chris

Whoa. You're comparing the MMR scare with mains cables?

Is this forum part of said unscrupulous press? If so, do I need vaccinated? :twisted:

It would seem some are not susceptible to inoculation.

 

[steve_1979]

The Tacima mains conditioner doesn't seem to make any difference to the sound of my system.

 

[John Duncan]

Yep it's that kind of thing that led to the current measles epedemic, unscientific mumbo jumbo promoted by an unscrupulous press.

Chris

Whoa. You're comparing the MMR scare with mains cables?

In concept but not necessarily in scale, keep up JD.

So who are the unscrupulous press in this case, out of interest?