Low volume level from MC Cartridge

[Gazzip]

Hi all, I have just installed a new cartridge and am experiencing low volume issues. I was using an Ortofon Red and have upgraded to a Cadenza Black. Phono stage is Devialet 800. I can get the desired volume if I crank up the pot on the Dev but it comes at the expense of loads of hiss. Could anybody suggest any solution to this? I am using the Dev's pre-programmed settings for a Cadenza Black so not sure what is going on. The Red worked perfectly well... Many thanks.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Well there's definitely something wrong Gazzip,but that's one heck of an upgrade.lol.I reckon the amp hasn't changed the settings properly.you're going from high output moving magnet to pretty low output moving coil.Also check all connections to the cart are secure.

 

[Gazzip]

Well there's definitely something wrong Gazzip,but that's one heck of an upgrade.lol.I reckon the amp hasn't changed the settings properly.you're going from high output moving magnet to pretty low output moving coil.Also check all connections to the cart are secure.

Thanks Mark, do you think the cartridge connections could really lower the volume if not properly secured? I have been reading around the problem and many suggest a step up transformer, but surely not on a Devialet 800 with all that configurability?

 

[paulkebab]

IIRC in my vinyl days, a MM cart had a higher output than a MC by a fair margin. I'm not familiar with the rest of your kit but maybe someone out there can help. As Mark says, a step-up transformer was the way but if as you say the Devialet can handle that issue I wouldn't buy anything just yet.

 

[Gazzip]

Hi all, I have just installed a new cartridge and am experiencing low volume issues. I was using an Ortofon Red and have upgraded to a Cadenza Black. Phono stage is Devialet 800. I can get the desired volume if I crank up the pot on the Dev but it comes at the expense of loads of hiss. Could anybody suggest any solution to this? I am using the Dev's pre-programmed settings for a Cadenza Black so not sure what is going on. The Red worked perfectly well... Many thanks.

I can only assume the settings for this cartridge in the Devialet are wrong. Are you sure you have selected the Cadenza correctly?

It's a low output moving coil cartridge so would sound as you describe if the Dev was still set up for a moving magnet.

Are there any other low output MC settings for a different cartridge you could try on the Devialet?

Yes, I could try the red, blue or bronze Cadenza settings as all are there. The Cadenza black settings are radically different from the red, blue and bronze on the Devialet, but the Ortofon literature also suggests that they are very different from the black. http://www.ortofon.com/media/14815/5-800136-12-mc-cadenza-userguide.pdf

The Cadenza Black was an almost impossible deal to refuse when I bought my new Pro-Ject TT but now beginning to wish I'd gone for the Quintet...

 

[Al ears]

Hi all, I have just installed a new cartridge and am experiencing low volume issues. I was using an Ortofon Red and have upgraded to a Cadenza Black. Phono stage is Devialet 800. I can get the desired volume if I crank up the pot on the Dev but it comes at the expense of loads of hiss. Could anybody suggest any solution to this? I am using the Dev's pre-programmed settings for a Cadenza Black so not sure what is going on. The Red worked perfectly well... Many thanks.

I can only assume the settings for this cartridge in the Devialet are wrong. Are you sure you have selected the Cadenza correctly?

It's a low output moving coil cartridge so would sound as you describe if the Dev was still set up for a moving magnet.

Are there any other low output MC settings for a different cartridge you could try on the Devialet?

What actual values can you see during the set-up configuration?

As far as I can see you can input three values manually:-

Output voltage- should be 330, Impedence load - should be 5 ohm, and capacitance load - which I think should be >10 ohm (but it looks like you can only enter picofarads, so I=haven't a clue here)

Buy a MC step-up transformer?

 

[Al ears]

Hi all, I have just installed a new cartridge and am experiencing low volume issues. I was using an Ortofon Red and have upgraded to a Cadenza Black. Phono stage is Devialet 800. I can get the desired volume if I crank up the pot on the Dev but it comes at the expense of loads of hiss. Could anybody suggest any solution to this? I am using the Dev's pre-programmed settings for a Cadenza Black so not sure what is going on. The Red worked perfectly well... Many thanks.

I can only assume the settings for this cartridge in the Devialet are wrong. Are you sure you have selected the Cadenza correctly?

It's a low output moving coil cartridge so would sound as you describe if the Dev was still set up for a moving magnet.

Are there any other low output MC settings for a different cartridge you could try on the Devialet?

Yes, I could try the red, blue or bronze Cadenza settings as all are there. The Cadenza black settings are radically different from the red, blue and bronze on the Devialet, but the Ortofon literature also suggests that they are very different from the black. http://www.ortofon.com/media/14815/5-800136-12-mc-cadenza-userguide.pdf

The Cadenza Black was an almost impossible deal to refuse when I bought my new Pro-Ject TT but now beginning to wish I'd gone for the Quintet...

They all have roughly the same output voltage with only the the recommended load impedence changing so there shouldn't be much difference in settings.

Try running it with Cadenza Bronze settings.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

This should not be happening with this level of kit.If I was you Gazzip I'd be very........

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

A moving magnet cartridge puts out about 4 to 5 millivolts, a moving coil cartridge about 0.1 to 0.3 millivolts, or one to two orders of magnitude lower than comparable moving magnet cartridges. The lower output means any rumble, hiss or other noise can be a significantly higher proportion of the total output from the turntable than would be the case with a moving magnet cartridge. and that's why moving coil cartridges were usually only fitted to high end decks back when the World was black and white and people walked funny. The noise issue and that the stylus (needle) couldn't be replaced in a moving coil cartridge without replacing the whole cartridge meant moving magnet cartridges were far more popular except for those who listened to their music alone in nuclear bunkers with the lights turned out.

Higher end amplifiers used to come with a switch where one could select moving magnet or moving coil phono inputs, and I guess the moving coil choice kicked in another pre-amplification stage.

I'd be wary of using a separate transformer with a moving magnet only phono pre-amp myself. It might introduce more noise.

I'd also guess that modern integrated amps with phono inputs might not have moving coil selectors, so be wary.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

A Devialet 800 isn't in the category of MOST Modern Amps.

 

[Al ears]

As I stated earlier, and confirmed by that Ortofon chart listed by Gazzip, the only real difference is recommended load impedence. The others parameters care so close as to be negligible.

Recommended load impedence for the black is >10 ohm and for the others is 50-200ohm.

Well, to my reckoning, 50-200 ohm is greater than 10 ohm so use that setting. Simples!

I don't see where Gazzip sees a big difference in values.

Output voltage, internal impedence, and load impedence are all you need worry about, and they are pretty similar.

 

[keeper of the quays]

Get a step up transformer..cheapish on internet! There's even a electronic one I saw for £20? Might be worth a go? If you live near me? (Hastings) you can borrow my music first step up! What I would say is a low output Mc cart with a step up..is brilliant! It's not just making the sound louder it reveals details that you wouldn't hear otherwise...

 

[abacus]

Make sure you have selected the MC option and not accidentally left it in MM mode. (There is an article on the Devialet website, however if I post the link it is blocked by the useless spam filter on this site)

BTW, Ohms is the measurement for resistance, it has nothing to do with capacitance which is measured in Farads. (Most pickup cartridges will only require very small values (pF) to work, plus a good quality phono cable of a 1m in length will have an average of 100pF itself)

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[Gazzip]

Okay so it looks as if the Devialet cartridge settings for the Cadenza Black may be complete arse. I have changed the load impedance from the Dev's preset 30 Ohms down to the Ortofon recommended 10 Ohms and set the Max level setting on the Devialet machine itself to 0.33 mV (Default 2.40 mV on the Dev). I think the Max level on the Dev may refer to the input level received which once again I think refers to the cartridge's output voltage of 330 uV.

All guesswork but gain levels are higher. Still hissing like a snake at moderate listening volumes mind you...

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

A Devialet 800 isn't in the category of MOST Modern Amps.

Point taken, was thinking more of the "mainstream" amps.

To the OP - if you're still getting a lot of hiss, try moving the interconnects clear of any other cables, check for bad connections at the cartridge, fluff, etc. If all else fails take your kit round to your friendly neighborhood dealer and try a different turntable. That'll tell you if it's the pre-amp or the turntable causing the problem.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Make sure you have selected the MC option and not accidentally left it in MM mode. (There is an article on the Devialet website, however if I post the link it is blocked by the useless spam filter on this site)

BTW, Ohms is the measurement for resistance, it has nothing to do with capacitance which is measured in Farads. (Most pickup cartridges will only require very small values (pF) to work, plus a good quality phono cable of a 1m in length will have an average of 100pF itself)

Hope this helps

Bill

Ohms is used to express impedance. Resistance is a subset of impedance where reactive elements like capacitors or coils are not present, or where a DC signal is present. Since the output from any analogue component goes up and down (often sinusoidally) and since all electrical wires exhibit some reactive facet, one should always talk impedance.
Pedantic, but there it is.

 

[Al ears]

Okay so it looks as if the Devialet cartridge settings for the Cadenza Black may be complete arse. I have changed the load impedance from the Dev's preset 30 Ohms down to the Ortofon recommended 10 Ohms and set the Max level setting on the Devialet machine itself to 0.33 mV (Default 2.40 mV on the Dev). I think the Max level on the Dev may refer to the input level received which once again I think refers to the cartridge's output voltage of 330 uV.

All guesswork but gain levels are higher. Still hissing like a snake at moderate listening volumes mind you...

It is indeed very strange that the Devs default output voltage for the Black is 2.4 mV. That's way out. Presume there was no humming from your previous cartridge?

I guess looking at that though you do have the moving coil type selected, as mentioned by someone else.

 

[Gazzip]

Okay so the plot thickens... This hiss at moderate volumes is really not going to fly with me so I have switched off the turntable and completely disconnected it. To my surprise the hiss is still there on the phono input of the Devialet.

Also to quantify the hissing this is not ear next to the speaker noise, this is loud and in your face from the listening position. Proper hiss and not just me being over sensitive.

Any ideas would be received happily as this is driving me bonkers! Wifi totally disabled also so can be discounted as a noise introducer...

 

[luckylion100]

but an interesting read nonetheless and I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it and and enjoy a level of musical pleasure few of us will ever match...

But at times like this I'm thankful for my simple, bog standard kit and the problem free joys of listening to it..

I'm sure the problem will be remedied without the need of any further purchases no matter how inexpensive.

Good luck.

 

[Al ears]

Okay so the plot thickens... This hiss at moderate volumes is really not going to fly with me so I have switched off the turntable and completely disconnected it. To my surprise the hiss is still there on the phono input of the Devialet.

Also to quantify the hissing this is not ear next to the speaker noise, this is loud and in your face from the listening position. Proper hiss and not just me being over sensitive.

Any ideas would be received happily as this is driving me bonkers! Wifi totally disabled also so can be discounted as a noise introducer...

Interesting, and pretty much what I thought now I have come to ( night shift and half asleep when I first replied).

The settings are unlikely to be the cause of a hiss, quiet volume maybe but not a hiss. I am unfamiliar with setting up a Dev.but is there not more than one input you can calibrate to act as a phono input?

The hiss when turntable is completely disconnected is concerning. What happens if you tell the Dev. that the phono input isn't a phono input anymore, I mean can you tell it that it is a line-level input??