lol... o.k, where is it?

[Thompsonuxb]

Was it deleted....... :?

It was here when I left yesterday now its gone, not locked or moved but gone, any chance I can get a reason.

 

[The_Lhc]

what are you talking about?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

the 'Cables with filters attached' thread what happened to it, do you know?

 

[the record spot]

It went. For the best I think.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

it went?

went where?

 

[simonlewis]

It went. For the best I think.

Along with mike farrow who won't be posting anymore !!!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

what..... ?

do you know what happened?

did mike farrow delete it then delete himself?

 

[simonlewis]

what..... ?

do you know what happened?

No

 

[Thompsonuxb]

oh.... o.k.

 

[John Duncan]

Dunno.

 

[Feral]

Filtered?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Dunno.

Hey John, while your there - you had a chance to dig out the AX-620 for a listen..... please don't let me have to beg you....please.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Filtered?

it say's 'page not found'...... is this a mystery of some sort?

 

[John Duncan]

Dunno.

Hey John, while your there - you had a chance to dig out the AX-620 for a listen..... please don't let me have to beg you....please.

Not yet. It was part of my 'convalescence plan' but then I ended up not having my op so it is some way away, I suspect.

 

[John Duncan]

Filtered?

it say's 'page not found'...... is this a mystery of some sort?

It appears to have been deleted by a mod. Shame shame.

 

[Al ears]

Ain't that what they are there for?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

why?

Any chance we can have a reason why it was deleted so the same mistakes will not be made again.

I can't believe it....deleted...man, I was this far from crushing those....eh...em, if you could John could you find out why or get the MOD to explain their reasons.....cheers.

 

[hifikrazy]

What a shame. I was looking forward to Thomson's response to Andyjm's more detailed reply.

 

[the record spot]

Yeah, I was looking forward to his unsubstantiated rationale around how he came to his conclusions about my system. I need to get to sleep soon and this'd help me nod off...

 

[andyjm]

By complete chance, I hadn't used the PC that I wrote my post on since yesterday, and I now always copy a post before hitting send because the forum software is so flaky. Does make me wonder why the original thread was deleted. Didn't seem that problematic.

So for anyone who cares:

So, taking that the conducters between source & amp & amp & speaker are transparent - lets say they are made of the finest copper known to man why would speaker cable matter and not interconnects?

For instance if the speaker cable is made of poorer materials than the interconnect, say 70% of the finest copper known to man and 30% saw dust it would then present 10x-30% of the signal to the speaker - yes?

if it was the interconnect that was 30% sawdust then would it not present X-30% to the amps inputs? which will then be amplified to the amps spec.?

Both conducters would affect X in the same way - is that right.

Thompson, my replies have been to your question above. The answer remains no, speaker cable resistance has more effect.

Instead of impedance, lets try a worked example for a speaker cable.

Assume 8 ohm speaker, 0.5ohm cable resistance, amplifier has no output resistance and is outputting 10V

Total loop resistance (speaker plus cable) = 8.5 ohms, loop current = 1.176A, voltage across speaker = 9.4118V

Now increase the speaker cable resistance by 30%

8 ohm speaker, 0.65ohm cable resistance, amplifier has no output resistance and is outputting 10V

Total loop resistance (speaker plus cable) = 8.65 ohms, loop current = 1.156A, voltage across speaker = 9.2486V

Reduction in speaker voltage = 1.73%

Now the interconnect:

Assume 1K input resistance in amplifier, 5ohm cable resistance, CD player has no output resistance and is outputting 1V

Total loop resistance (input plus cable) = 1005 ohms, loop current = 0.9950mA, voltage at amp input = 0.995V

Now increase the interconnect resistance by 30%

1K input resistance in amplifier, 6.5ohm cable resistance, CD player has no output resistance and is outputing 1V

Total loop resistance (input plus cable) = 1006.5 ohms, loop current = 0.9935mA, voltage at amp input = 0.9935V

Reduction in input voltage = 0.15%

So a 30% change in cable resistance impacts a speaker cable more than an interconnect - in the example above by a factor of 10.

 

[hifikrazy]

Thompsonuxb, I think you might have missed responding to the above, which Andyjm was good enough to manage reviving the deleted thread by reposting his last post.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

By complete chance, I hadn't used the PC that I wrote my post on since yesterday, and I now always copy a post before hitting send because the forum software is so flaky. Does make me wonder why the original thread was deleted. Didn't seem that problematic.

So for anyone who cares:

So, taking that the conducters between source & amp & amp & speaker are transparent - lets say they are made of the finest copper known to man why would speaker cable matter and not interconnects?

For instance if the speaker cable is made of poorer materials than the interconnect, say 70% of the finest copper known to man and 30% saw dust it would then present 10x-30% of the signal to the speaker - yes?

if it was the interconnect that was 30% sawdust then would it not present X-30% to the amps inputs? which will then be amplified to the amps spec.?

Both conducters would affect X in the same way - is that right.

Thompson, my replies have been to your question above. The answer remains no, speaker cable resistance has more effect.

Instead of impedance, lets try a worked example for a speaker cable.

Assume 8 ohm speaker, 0.5ohm cable resistance, amplifier has no output resistance and is outputting 10V

Total loop resistance (speaker plus cable) = 8.5 ohms, loop current = 1.176A, voltage across speaker = 9.4118V

Now increase the speaker cable resistance by 30%

8 ohm speaker, 0.65ohm cable resistance, amplifier has no output resistance and is outputting 10V

Total loop resistance (speaker plus cable) = 8.65 ohms, loop current = 1.156A, voltage across speaker = 9.2486V

Reduction in speaker voltage = 1.73%

Now the interconnect:

Assume 1K input resistance in amplifier, 5ohm cable resistance, CD player has no output resistance and is outputting 1V

Total loop resistance (input plus cable) = 1005 ohms, loop current = 0.9950mA, voltage at amp input = 0.995V

Now increase the interconnect resistance by 30%

1K input resistance in amplifier, 6.5ohm cable resistance, CD player has no output resistance and is outputing 1V

Total loop resistance (input plus cable) = 1006.5 ohms, loop current = 0.9935mA, voltage at amp input = 0.9935V

Reduction in input voltage = 0.15%

So a 30% change in cable resistance impacts a speaker cable more than an interconnect - in the example above by a factor of 10.

Wow, sorry never thought of re-checking this - never new it had been added to.

But o,k -

andyjm, not sure what the above is trying to prove it makes no sense.

To explain why, you include speaker & amp input resistance in the above .... why?

if we remove our cables from our systems, throw them into the middle of a room, all you have is a pile of cables. They do not have resistors, capacitors, transistors or anything else in them that will affect an electrical signal. The only resistance being in their composition, their puriety, which we can use has a point of reference.

the cables are just a transport for our electrical signal - has a whole.

if for example we take a speaker cable, chop it up into equal pieces and use it has both interconnect and speaker cable then given it is transparent then the above makes no sense with ref the electrical signal going from A to B and no place for I or V in this context.

So 1db (the electrical signal has a whole) is at the output of our source it will be at the input of the amp. once the amp does its magic (amplyfying x10) 10db at its output will be presented to the speakers input. the speaker then converts back to audio according to its spec.

These are not intelligent devices, they work to spefications that require an electrical signal within a specified range. As I said in the previous thread if a CD is equalised low say -3db(hardly moving the needles on a VU meter) and another equ'd at +3db (making the needles dance) without adjusting anything you will know which is which when your speaker converts it to audio.

(and why a UK amp won't work in america the input electrical signal is out of spec).

The actual electrical signal is the same across your transport which your speaker needs to work according to its spec.

if one set of transport is changed ethier side of the amp the electrical signal will behaive the same, hence differences in audio if the quality of the cables differ. if your speaker cable is not changed, hence it becomes a point of reference, changes in the interconnects affecting the original signal can and is audible.

Rubbish in rubbish out as the saying goes , an amp just amplifys whats presented to it.

 

[andyjm]

A speaker cable or an interconnect do not work in isolation, they are part of a circuit which includes the resistance of the source as well as the resistance of the load.

My worked example shows how for a given change in cable resistance, different circuits can respond differently.

Speaker cables are more sensitive to changes in resistance than interconnects, not because the physics of the cable is different, but the circuit in which they operate is different.

 

[eggontoast]

A speaker cable or an interconnect do not work in isolation, they are part of a circuit which includes the resistance of the source as well as the resistance of the load.

Remember it's not just about the resistance.

You are dealing with AC signals and impedance (L,C & R) not just resistance so it's not just about voltage drops.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

A speaker cable or an interconnect do not work in isolation, they are part of a circuit which includes the resistance of the source as well as the resistance of the load.

My worked example shows how for a given change in cable resistance, different circuits can respond differently.

Speaker cables are more sensitive to changes in resistance than interconnects, not because the physics of the cable is different, but the circuit in which they operate is different.

Yes they do work in isolation. they are outside of the box so to speak - they're transports

They are interchangeable and so their quality can and do affect the transport of the electrical signal between devices. the hardware is fixed according to their own spec - and will deliver the same thing to their outputs regardless of the interconnect or its quality.