Little Dot III headphone amp

[GeoffreyW]

Greetings, Octopo. I'm guessing that you're responding to my initial question. If what you say is correct, and I'm not doubting it, it sounds as if I've got (potentially) years of happy listening in front of me, with the original tubes plus my Mullards. As Graham suggested, I'll get used to the amp as - is, for the next few weeks, then try rolling.

Yout 'tache does look familiar; quite manly, in fact. But I think it looked better on Pat Garrett, to be honest.

 

[Anonymous]

The Mullards are in! Rolled and ready - sound great but perhaps it's the placebo effect?

Reporting in soon.....

 

[GeoffreyW]

Tension mounts...............must be close to 50 hours by the end of today for mine. I'm using it via the tape out from my Naim amp, not sure what coloration effect it's having, but it means I'm getting good noises from several sources, to enable running in. I'm looking forward to hearing your review of the roll, as it were, Graham.

 

[Anonymous]

How are you finding the L Dot after 50 then Geoff?

Just managed a few hours with the Mullards but they are sweet, very warm sounding, lovely bass. Very happy so far! A definite step up (in my opinion) of course!

Happy New Year by the way to you and all the readers......

 

[GeoffreyW]

And a happy new year to yourself and all our readers, Graham. Things are sounding promising with the Mullards then? It's very tempting to try mine a bit earlier than planned. As the LD has been a clear improvement over my previous setup, I'm still enjoying the clarity of instruments I'm experiencing. Notes start and stop accurately, are full bodied and rounded, with more subtlety and detail of the primary and secondary harmonics, and no harshness or sibilance at higher frequencies. Bass is also full, and conveys the character, feel and sound of the instrument. At times it almost feels as if you're very close during the recording. Much improved placement,separation and definition of instruments and voices, too. How does this compare with your experiences,Graham? Having let my son try Mars Volta through it, and my SR80s, made me realise how leaky they are, so may be looking for something with similar sound, but less leaky. Especially as the sound quality encourages listening at slightly higher levels, though I dodn't go much above 30.

 

[Anonymous]

GeoffreyW:Bass is also full, and conveys the character, feel and sound of the instrument. At times it almost feels as if you're very close during the recording. Much improved placement,separation and definition of instruments and voices, too.

Totally agree, Geoff, same for me but I feel a tad warmer with the Mullards. I listened to David Gilmour's Live in Gdansk, and although a fine recording it sounded very close up.....

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, I've just bought a LDIII and some Mullard M8161s - will be using Grado SR80is. Rest of system is: Cyrus CD8x/PSX-R; Roksan Kandy MKIII amp; Dynaudio Excite X12s (connected with Kimber 8TC speaker cable and Silver Streak Interconnect). Hoping to love it as much as you guys when it all arrives later this week. I'll be listening to Dave Gilmour's Live in Gdansk as well (great live recording).

PS: Is your avatar the greatest bass player in the world by any chance?

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forums Hairy! Yes, that's the Gedster. I'm looking forward to 19th and 21st May when they play Manchester then Newcastle (home town for only the third time in 31 years - 1980, 2007 and 2011) respectively! There are more UK gigs but 2 should be sufficient for me!

Having just sold that very same CD player (albeit an SE) I'm sure you will love it with the LD III. Report in as soon as you get it going.......

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there, just a quick message as I've had a few ciders (shouldn't listen to music and drink, nasty habit

). Just got the LDIII today and WOW! I thought it is supposed to need running in or at least warming up

! Right from the first bars of Black Country Communion's 'One Last Soul' the bass was astounding, the vocals had warmth and presence and the treble sweet. Doing a quick A/B using the 2 sockets of the Cyrus player into my Roksan Kandy amp and feeding the other via the Little Dot MKIII using the Kandy as a Power it was obvious that as a Preamp the LDIII was doing things to the sound which made it sound so much fuller and more organic than the Cyrus/Kandy combo on its own. Of course it could just be partly a tonal matching thing (the Cyrus/Kandy combo is known to be a bit 'lean') but still the depth and three dimensionality seems to be much improved (and I've yet to run it in or fit the Mullard M8161s!). Over Grado SR80is sound is wonderful! How on earth do they make such a wonderful product so cheap? This must be the best kept secret in Hifi?

Good Luck with the Rush gigs, I'm hoping to go to the Brum one (if the wife will let me!

). Cheers and a belated Happy New Year!

 

[Anonymous]

Pleased you're enjoying the LD as much as Geoff and I. It is a real audiophile bargain in my opinion.

Cider and music - 2 of my favourite things, especially together! Nothing to be embarrassed about......

 

[GeoffreyW]

Greetings, Graham and Hairy. Dammit, there was I, thinking I'd almost got over the ole upgrading bug, and now here I am, buying new music, searching for better valves, which also get dearer as quality increases (as is to be expected), checking out phones which leak sound a bit less, owing to the desire to increase listening volume to more enjoy the sounds; and should I now swap my SS amps for valve amps? - where will it all end? I'm considering trying to use the LD3 as a pre-amp, but I think I'll need special cabling, so it could be an expensive experiment. I'll have to concentrate on the LD for a while, methinks.

Graham,can you explain the acronyms used with valves, NOS and NIB(?) or whatever, please? Not On Song, perhaps? And is it significant?

I feel the need for liquid refreshment coming on. Bye.

 

[Anonymous]

Calm down Geoff! Just give them a listen for a while!

Hairy and I recommend some cider!

NOS is 'New Old Stock' - unused but obviously manufactured a while ago.

NIB is 'New In Box' - probably the original box. Can't see any difference unless they are really expensive and you wanted to sell on......

 

[GeoffreyW]

Received and understood, Graham, thanks. It's easy when you know how.

I ended up with a measure of Dalwhinnie, which had the desired effect. Graham's LBV is currently hitting the spot.

After having puzzled over the jumper question, as it initially seemd potentially confusing, it seems as if all it requires is for the jumpers currently in place just need moving down, from Top and Middle pins, to Middle and Bottom pins? If so, tube rolling will hold no fears, and may occur quite soon, out of curiosity.

So much music, so little time.........

 

[Anonymous]

GeoffreyW:the jumpers currently in place just need moving down, from Top and Middle pins, to Middle and Bottom pins?

That's correct Geoff. A firm pair of tweezers, steady hand (stay off the Dalwhinnie!) and a good light!

 

[GeoffreyW]

Thanks, Graham. Had a look on Thursday, and I may have to try to move a component on one side slightly, perhaps. Gently does it.

BTW, are the 6N6P-I tubes replacements, too?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there,

Just a quick note, I've been swatting up on the valves for the Little Dot MkIII and I've found out a few things. Firstly, the output valves (General Electric 5654) are upgradable (as you know) but if you want to go away from the EF95/5654 route and get say EF92s you need to move the jumpers. Secondly the driver valves the Soviet Military 6H6P-i are also potentially upgradable but this is much more difficult and probably unnecessary because these are actually very good and only account anyway for 15% of the sound, whereas the output valves account for 85% approx of the sound.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there Graham,

Sorry for taking so long to reply but the past couple of days have been somewhat hectic!

Since I posted last I've changed the output valves for CV4010 (Military spec M8100) by Mullard. These are the EF95 versions of the M8161s you are using. The resulting sound has certainly changed - of course I still need to 'run' these in so these comments are based on initial findings. Everything is much smoother and more natural, the treble in particular is much improved and siblilance which seemed a slight bugbear with the GE5654s has now gone. I found though that the Cyrus interconnect I was using between my Cyrus CD8x/PSX-R and the LDIII although good with the GE5654s sounded too 'damped' with these new Mullards (perhaps because they still need running in?). Anyway (and here's a word of advice before people jump to conclusions with different types of valves about their 'sound') I happen to also have some Kimber Silver Streaks (which I generally find too brash and forward with the Roksan Kandy so I don't normally use them) and I tried the sound with these in place instead of my normal Cyrus interconnects and WOW!

, the sound was transformed, the soundstage opened up, the slightly 'damped' sound went away, the bandwidth seemed expanded from bass to treble, dynamics seemed improved and vocals were pushed more forward and became much more intelligible. It was in fact as if I had been listening with cotton wool in my ears before

! Of course I know from my 'swatting up' that the CV4010s still have more to give when they run in and perhaps the sound may alter slightly, but initial results seem very promising!

 

[Anonymous]

GeoffreyW:BTW, are the 6N6P-I tubes replacements, too?

Hi Geoff. Yes, these are instead of 6H6P-I (I got 4 from the Ukraine for £14.00 delivered) but as Hairy says, they don't account for much of the sound.

Hairy, pleased you are enjoying the LD and are happier with the sound. I've weaned myself of buying cables after spending a fortune on them over some years for (IMHO) very little difference. I'm currently using some ancient Van Den Hul's and am very happy with them.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there,

I too don't buy many cables these days, but I've got a collection I've built up over the years of about 5 x High Quality Copper Interconnects and 3 x High Quality Silver Interconnects. I can tell the difference between these, but and it's a BIG BUT, there is a vast difference in sound IMHO between Silver Interconnects and Copper Interconnects (btw on ebay Achtung Audio http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Solid-Silver-Litz-Phono-RCA-Cable-Interconnects-3-ft_W0QQitemZ180546571267QQcategoryZ116850QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6249582700967509006 do some excellent cheap silver litz interconnects which sound as good IMO as my more expensive interconnects). This basically was my point (perhaps I made it badly) on my last post, that don't dismiss certain 'smooth' sounding valves until you've changed the interconnects - Silver interconnects do seem to have a 'signature' sound which is forward, bright, lean and with extended highs and lows, whereas Copper seems to nearly always be warmer, more 'rounded' (or 'damped'), fuller sounding, less forward and with less extended highs and lows. Over my Roksan Kandy MkIII amp from my Cyrus CD8x/PSX-R (Dynaudio Excite X12 speakers) silver interconnects sound TERRIBLE!!! and I much prefer copper interconnects like my Cyrus or my Wireworld Solstice 5, the sound is cold, analytical, brash and too forward (because the ancillary electronics sounds similar), however plug in the LDIII with the Mullard M8100s either as a headphone amp or as a preamp feeding the Roksan through an AUX socket with the Roksan's volume control turned to maximum (using the LDIII to control volume) and the Cyrus or Wireworld interconnects are far too 'muffled' sounding and lacking in detail, change to the silver interconnects and everything snaps into place! I feel that valves seem to have a great synergy with silver cable's inherent sonic 'signature' and I urge all listeners out there with valve amps of any type to give 'em a try.

 

[Anonymous]

Good point well made Oh Hairy One...

 

[GeoffreyW]

Hi, Hairy. Are you using the silver interconnect direct from your Cyrus to your LDIII? Or Cyrus - LDIII - Roksan? Most of my listening has been via the Tape out of my Naim 72/140, fed via SHB from the cdp, which presumably is adding it's own colouration, and so far I'm happy with the sounds I'm hearing. I've also tried direct from the CDP, through my SHB Avatar leads, and I'm still not sure which is better. As far as I'm aware, SHB is a silver (coated?) wire, so presumably I'm already hearing some of the effect you're talking about? I'm in the process of buying a Chord Crimson cable, to try from Naim to LDIII, to try. As I'm about to roll my Mullards in the very near future, silver interconnects could be an avenue to explore later on.

 

[GeoffreyW]

Well, I've done it, my Mullards are in, and initial - approx. 2 hours in - impressions are very favourable. Music sounds fuller, more rounded, with more depth to the bass, and more definition & clarity everywhere. I've been able to reduce the listening volume, from 30 to 20, with no loss, presumbly due to the higher operating spec of the Mullards. I've also got a used Chord Crimson i/c, Din - RCA, on it's way, so some cable rolling (lol) later in the year.

 

[Anonymous]

Geoff, so pleased you got the same results as I did with those Mullards. Well worth the £20.00.

Hairy, I've bought some 0.5m silver litz cables from eBay as per your previous post! Haven't cable 'rolled' as Geoff says in years!

Edit: The silver litz cables are fitted so I'll be reporting in.....

 

[GeoffreyW]

Hi, Graham, looking forward to hearing how your Litz cables are performing.

The Mullards have had around 20+ hours, and are terrific, still improving, I believe. It's probably not the best time for it, but I've rolled my Chord Crimson interconnect between Naim & LD, and it's certainly made sounds more precise, and I think it'll need bedding in with my system - it certainly sounded different today than on initial swap. My old cable, which I thought to be a cheapo, turns out to be using Van Damme cable, so perhaps some respect due?

I think I'm just going to spend time listening, before deciding on the next step ?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there Geoff. Probably not a good time to change i/c but you can always swap back until you're fully content with the sound.

Perhaps using the two as a reference ABX test and that should give you enough material to be getting on with, especially if you have two outputs from source.

I've personally spend thousands on tweaks with 'audiophile' kit (cables/sources/amps/speakers) and I'm honestly happier with this little headphone system than anything.

I can concentrate on the music and nothing distracts me! No laptop, PC gaming or TV.